Sober Log
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by Beccybean 
'Because I've made amends'
No - you haven't made amends. You apologised. Amends would be making it better for HER. You said sorry to her, but have then spend the rest of the time feeling sorry FOR YOURSELF.
'.... and realize I made a mistake, but it wasn't like I hit her. '
You objectified her. You got jealous because her ex was there and you put your own feelings above hers and embarrassed her. She doesn't need that kind of crap to be dealing with on what should be a fun night. You didn't exactly behave like a great boyfriend Slick.
'....I was just a drunk emotional idiot. If she can't see that, then I don't want her.'
Maybe she does see that. Maybe she just doesn't want to spend her life with a drunk idiot. She didn't say you're the devil incarnate, just that she needs time to think about what she wants. She's not punishing you, she's thinking about what she wants, and that's okay. She's allowed to do that. In fact it's the sensible thing for her to be doing.
You're still looking at this whole thing as if you're the only person in this relationship who has any right to an opinion.
No - you haven't made amends. You apologised. Amends would be making it better for HER. You said sorry to her, but have then spend the rest of the time feeling sorry FOR YOURSELF.
'.... and realize I made a mistake, but it wasn't like I hit her. '
You objectified her. You got jealous because her ex was there and you put your own feelings above hers and embarrassed her. She doesn't need that kind of crap to be dealing with on what should be a fun night. You didn't exactly behave like a great boyfriend Slick.
'....I was just a drunk emotional idiot. If she can't see that, then I don't want her.'
Maybe she does see that. Maybe she just doesn't want to spend her life with a drunk idiot. She didn't say you're the devil incarnate, just that she needs time to think about what she wants. She's not punishing you, she's thinking about what she wants, and that's okay. She's allowed to do that. In fact it's the sensible thing for her to be doing.
You're still looking at this whole thing as if you're the only person in this relationship who has any right to an opinion.
Can a mod please delete this thread? I won't be posting anymore. Thank you.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
We don't delete threads Rick.
You can request this forum's mod (Scott FromWI) close it but I hope you change your mind.
I understand why you might not like some of the points raised by Beccybean but
it think would be a shame to stop this journal simply because you didn't like a response.
For what it's worth, I struggled for a long time with why my relationships broke up.
I felt I was a good guy who's only real failing was a liking to drink too much....and heck I was a good guy, with demons....
I felt I'd put up with a lot of stuff from my partners and I couldn't understand why they would not do the same for me.
After I stopped drinking a while I saw things differently.
It took me a while to be able to admit the broad scope of my addiction and what it put those I loved through.
It's still a source of regret for me that a lot of my actions did not always reflect the genuine love I had for those people....
but I do agree with you that I can't beat myself up for that endlessly, I can only make amends, move on, and do better now.
Hope you stick around,
D
You can request this forum's mod (Scott FromWI) close it but I hope you change your mind.
I understand why you might not like some of the points raised by Beccybean but
it think would be a shame to stop this journal simply because you didn't like a response.
For what it's worth, I struggled for a long time with why my relationships broke up.
I felt I was a good guy who's only real failing was a liking to drink too much....and heck I was a good guy, with demons....
I felt I'd put up with a lot of stuff from my partners and I couldn't understand why they would not do the same for me.
After I stopped drinking a while I saw things differently.
It took me a while to be able to admit the broad scope of my addiction and what it put those I loved through.
It's still a source of regret for me that a lot of my actions did not always reflect the genuine love I had for those people....
but I do agree with you that I can't beat myself up for that endlessly, I can only make amends, move on, and do better now.
Hope you stick around,
D
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Sorry you feel that way SlickRick.
I suppose I felt like you were listening to your AV telling you that your behaviour was okay (so why not just go straight ahead and carry on) rather than the objective viewing of it that you felt that you were seeing it from. And ultimately it's none of my business and I apologise if it hurt your feelings.
What I do stick firmly by though, is that amends are not just are not an apology (with or without flowers) .
Amends noun
compensate or make up for a wrongdoing.
If you'd taken some flowers away from her in the first place, then apologising and taking her some afterwards might be compensation. But you hadn't taken away any flowers. Like you say, I don't know your relationship. Only you and her can say what you're compensating for. Amends are notoriously tricky. And not only are they tricky to do, it's even trickier to put ourselves in the place where we can look at our part in thinks in an honest and fearless way and acknowledge how our actions have affected someone else.
I can only tell share with you what I've learnt along the way. And with regards to 'amends' it is that if I really want to put things right, it's only going to work if I start making amends from the standpoint of how my action affected them. For some situations this can only really be a 'living' amends. To behave differently in my relationship with them in the future. And as an alcoholic I tend to crave instant gratification, so that's hard. Also, the amend needs to be made freely: with no expectation of them saying; doing; giving anything in return. Otherwise I'm not making an 'amend' I'm making a deal.
To be honest, it's probably way too early even to be thinking along the lines of amends. So again, I am sorry if I was too forthright in my response, and put things too bluntly. You just seemed like a forthright kind of person, but it's none of my business at all.
I suppose I felt like you were listening to your AV telling you that your behaviour was okay (so why not just go straight ahead and carry on) rather than the objective viewing of it that you felt that you were seeing it from. And ultimately it's none of my business and I apologise if it hurt your feelings.
What I do stick firmly by though, is that amends are not just are not an apology (with or without flowers) .
Amends noun
compensate or make up for a wrongdoing.
If you'd taken some flowers away from her in the first place, then apologising and taking her some afterwards might be compensation. But you hadn't taken away any flowers. Like you say, I don't know your relationship. Only you and her can say what you're compensating for. Amends are notoriously tricky. And not only are they tricky to do, it's even trickier to put ourselves in the place where we can look at our part in thinks in an honest and fearless way and acknowledge how our actions have affected someone else.
I can only tell share with you what I've learnt along the way. And with regards to 'amends' it is that if I really want to put things right, it's only going to work if I start making amends from the standpoint of how my action affected them. For some situations this can only really be a 'living' amends. To behave differently in my relationship with them in the future. And as an alcoholic I tend to crave instant gratification, so that's hard. Also, the amend needs to be made freely: with no expectation of them saying; doing; giving anything in return. Otherwise I'm not making an 'amend' I'm making a deal.
To be honest, it's probably way too early even to be thinking along the lines of amends. So again, I am sorry if I was too forthright in my response, and put things too bluntly. You just seemed like a forthright kind of person, but it's none of my business at all.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
PS: And my living amends to you (unless you can think of something that will be more appropriate) will be to try harder to follow the advice someone told us he'd been given once, which was: 'Ask yourself: Does it need to be said? Does it need to be said by me? And does it need to be said now? If the answer to any of those questions is 'No' then keep your opinions to yourself.'
There's obviously a reason that stuck in my head,eh! I promise I will try harder at this.
There's obviously a reason that stuck in my head,eh! I promise I will try harder at this.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by Nuke
Hey Rick,
I can fully relate to what you are going though. I too am a vet, and my addictions were not only started, but fully fostered and supported during my time in the service.
It seems as though most of the guys that I still know from the service have had some type of addiction issues (mainly with alcohol) and have had to seek out help.
It is a different world that you, I, and others like us have had to live for a number of years. Many non service civilians do not understand how the non-publicized military actually operates.
I finally broke down and had to go see a doc about getting some meds to deal with the issues in my head. That has helped me immensely with coping with the "old" military me, and the "new" civilian that I am. There are drastic differences between the two worlds, and what was considered acceptable and "normal" is seen in a whole other light in the civilian world.
Go see a doc, and don't be afraid of AA. While I too, don't have a great amount of faith in the Christian portrayal of spirituality, a "Greater Power" does not have to center around God, Mohammad, Buddah, etc...if in your mind (as mine) that greater power is just the magnificence of the world around you, and the science and physics that helped create it, you can view that as your greater power.
You got this, I know your struggle, I have been there and screwed my life up beyond repair on more than one occasion. It finally took a good woman (who put up with my BS for FAR too long), some willpower, and some crazy pills to get me even keeled, but it has finally gotten me there!
Don't be afraid to reach out for help, there are people out there that are more than willing to understand and lend a helping hand!
While I have cravings at times, my biggest struggle is getting over the peer pressure. I am the guy that NEVER turned down a drink, always took a challenge, and could quite easily drink many people under the table. That is not who I want to be anymore, now I just have to convince my associates that too.
I can fully relate to what you are going though. I too am a vet, and my addictions were not only started, but fully fostered and supported during my time in the service.
It seems as though most of the guys that I still know from the service have had some type of addiction issues (mainly with alcohol) and have had to seek out help.
It is a different world that you, I, and others like us have had to live for a number of years. Many non service civilians do not understand how the non-publicized military actually operates.
I finally broke down and had to go see a doc about getting some meds to deal with the issues in my head. That has helped me immensely with coping with the "old" military me, and the "new" civilian that I am. There are drastic differences between the two worlds, and what was considered acceptable and "normal" is seen in a whole other light in the civilian world.
Go see a doc, and don't be afraid of AA. While I too, don't have a great amount of faith in the Christian portrayal of spirituality, a "Greater Power" does not have to center around God, Mohammad, Buddah, etc...if in your mind (as mine) that greater power is just the magnificence of the world around you, and the science and physics that helped create it, you can view that as your greater power.
You got this, I know your struggle, I have been there and screwed my life up beyond repair on more than one occasion. It finally took a good woman (who put up with my BS for FAR too long), some willpower, and some crazy pills to get me even keeled, but it has finally gotten me there!
Don't be afraid to reach out for help, there are people out there that are more than willing to understand and lend a helping hand!
While I have cravings at times, my biggest struggle is getting over the peer pressure. I am the guy that NEVER turned down a drink, always took a challenge, and could quite easily drink many people under the table. That is not who I want to be anymore, now I just have to convince my associates that too.
Thanks for taking the time to post and write all of that up. It means a lot. I was supposed to see a substance abuse counselor last week but his father passed away so it might be a while before I get in. I've decided not to continue this log, but I do plan to continue posting. So we will see where that leads.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
Nuke, Great post.
Slick, Beccy was trying to help. I am always amazed at how people spill their heart and spend their time just trying to help each other with no expectations -- even if we get it wrong sometimes, its meant with love. I am voting for you Slick, as is Beccy.
Slick, Beccy was trying to help. I am always amazed at how people spill their heart and spend their time just trying to help each other with no expectations -- even if we get it wrong sometimes, its meant with love. I am voting for you Slick, as is Beccy.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
