Big Book Step Study - Hyannis Format
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Originally Posted by Joe Nerv 
Any attempt to control is IMO a product of fear. Any AA meeting based on controlling what others say and do is a fear based meeting, again, IMO. That's not to say that they don't work. They do. I just don't have any attraction towards the "brand" of sobriety they produce, and prefer meetings that come from a center of love, acceptance, and understanding.
I don't feel this fits well with the description of the meetings in the OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveInPeace View Post
"We quit playing God--it didn't work."
I also, though off topic, would like to say regarding DayTrader's post, "...who practices the all the principles in all the steps in all areas of their life," I can with clean conscience honestly say I believe I do. Turning my life and will over to my HP on a regular basis is the beginning of that. 30+ yrs of much needed 'brainwashing' and repetition from 1000s of BB and step meetings, with an earnest desire to live a life based on the 12 steps has kind of dyed it into my wool. Does that mean I never make mistakes? Of course not. Does it mean I do it perfectly, 24/7? Nope. Does it mean that I walk around happy, joyous and free every moment of my life? I never expected that, nor really desire it any more. It means I am undoubtedly however still growing along these spiritual lines, with the goal of sainthood in mind
, knowing full well I'm never going to get there. Very much enjoying the journey though.
Back to my regularly scheduled summer. For those who know me... I just kinda slipped here. Oops... No. Not with alcohol... I blame the dang coffee.
I don't feel this fits well with the description of the meetings in the OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveInPeace View Post
"We quit playing God--it didn't work."
I also, though off topic, would like to say regarding DayTrader's post, "...who practices the all the principles in all the steps in all areas of their life," I can with clean conscience honestly say I believe I do. Turning my life and will over to my HP on a regular basis is the beginning of that. 30+ yrs of much needed 'brainwashing' and repetition from 1000s of BB and step meetings, with an earnest desire to live a life based on the 12 steps has kind of dyed it into my wool. Does that mean I never make mistakes? Of course not. Does it mean I do it perfectly, 24/7? Nope. Does it mean that I walk around happy, joyous and free every moment of my life? I never expected that, nor really desire it any more. It means I am undoubtedly however still growing along these spiritual lines, with the goal of sainthood in mind
, knowing full well I'm never going to get there. Very much enjoying the journey though.Back to my regularly scheduled summer. For those who know me... I just kinda slipped here
. Oops... No. Not with alcohol... I blame the dang coffee.I also "prefer meetings that come from a center of love, acceptance, and understanding." I find the HBBSS meetings to be coming from a center of love, acceptance, and understanding. They see how low the recovery rate is in AA and want to genuinely help people recover. I didn't start this thread to have a debate, yet I was pulled into one. I am stepping away from this thread. I wish everyone the best in their own recovery journey, whatever that may be. If anyone wants to share spiritual experience, strength, and hope feel free to PM me.
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Originally Posted by LiveInPeace
I don't understand your post. I was quoting directions from the big book. To me, "Quit playing God--it doesn't work" just means that I need to let go and let God.
The Speaker.
A meeting speaker is also a person who is qualified to share by having experienced the 12 steps as they are laid out with the help of another person who has done it this way. They have done the 3rd step with their sponsor, or another person. They have done the 4th step exactly as the Big Book lays it out, are easily able to describe all three parts, and are willing to read examples from their own inventory. They have done steps 6 and 7 approximately an hour after they finished their 5th step. They have made some significant 9th step amends, and are practicing steps 10, 11, and 12 on a daily basis. They usually have chaired BBSS meetings, and are sponsoring people through the 12 steps. They often give a very brief history of their drinking, recapping their AA experience up until BBSS, then focusing specifically on the text and their experience with the directions for the step being studied. The entire talk generally lasts around 20 minutes.
The Meeting Itself.
Usually lasts an hour and a half with no break. It's divided into three basic parts: the reading, the speaker, and discussion of the step being studied.
1. Who Can Share.
Only people who have completed their 4th step and are on steps 9-12 may share during the meeting. 3 Most people who have been through the process qualify by introducing themselves, and saying that they have done the 12 steps as they are laid out in the Big Book with a BBSS sponsor, and have done the steps this way, or something to that effect. This differentiates them from those AA's who are not familiar with the BBSS process. Each person shares their experience with the step for up to 5 minutes. The chair keeps track of time and usually holds up a hand when time is up.
2. What to Do When Unqualified People Try to Share.
It is the responsibility of the chairperson to determine whether a person is qualified. The chairperson must listen carefully to what the person is saying about the step and try to determine whether the person's experience is consistent with the directions in the text. Some warning signs are that someone is at a BBSS meeting for the first time; mentions other methods, other 12-Step literature, AWOL's, treatment center step work, Joe and Charlie seminars and tapes, the 7 deadly sins, assets-liabilities checklists; talks around the step and won't get to the point; is unfamiliar to the group and is not familiar with BBSS meetings; is visiting from another group; is a popular and well respected oldtimer, but speaks very little of their own step experience, or how exactly they did the steps.
A meeting speaker is also a person who is qualified to share by having experienced the 12 steps as they are laid out with the help of another person who has done it this way. They have done the 3rd step with their sponsor, or another person. They have done the 4th step exactly as the Big Book lays it out, are easily able to describe all three parts, and are willing to read examples from their own inventory. They have done steps 6 and 7 approximately an hour after they finished their 5th step. They have made some significant 9th step amends, and are practicing steps 10, 11, and 12 on a daily basis. They usually have chaired BBSS meetings, and are sponsoring people through the 12 steps. They often give a very brief history of their drinking, recapping their AA experience up until BBSS, then focusing specifically on the text and their experience with the directions for the step being studied. The entire talk generally lasts around 20 minutes.
The Meeting Itself.
Usually lasts an hour and a half with no break. It's divided into three basic parts: the reading, the speaker, and discussion of the step being studied.
1. Who Can Share.
Only people who have completed their 4th step and are on steps 9-12 may share during the meeting. 3 Most people who have been through the process qualify by introducing themselves, and saying that they have done the 12 steps as they are laid out in the Big Book with a BBSS sponsor, and have done the steps this way, or something to that effect. This differentiates them from those AA's who are not familiar with the BBSS process. Each person shares their experience with the step for up to 5 minutes. The chair keeps track of time and usually holds up a hand when time is up.
2. What to Do When Unqualified People Try to Share.
It is the responsibility of the chairperson to determine whether a person is qualified. The chairperson must listen carefully to what the person is saying about the step and try to determine whether the person's experience is consistent with the directions in the text. Some warning signs are that someone is at a BBSS meeting for the first time; mentions other methods, other 12-Step literature, AWOL's, treatment center step work, Joe and Charlie seminars and tapes, the 7 deadly sins, assets-liabilities checklists; talks around the step and won't get to the point; is unfamiliar to the group and is not familiar with BBSS meetings; is visiting from another group; is a popular and well respected oldtimer, but speaks very little of their own step experience, or how exactly they did the steps.
IMO, that is a clear attempt to control what goes on... what I consider "playing god". Not how I choose to utilize my program.
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Originally Posted by LiveInPeace
I also "prefer meetings that come from a center of love, acceptance, and understanding." I find the HBBSS meetings to be coming from a center of love, acceptance, and understanding. They see how low the recovery rate is in AA and want to genuinely help people recover. I didn't start this thread to have a debate, yet I was pulled into one. I am stepping away from this thread. I wish everyone the best in their own recovery journey, whatever that may be. If anyone wants to share spiritual experience, strength, and hope feel free to PM me.
I have a lot knowledge and experience to offer a newly recovering person. In accordance to the directions given above, I wouldn't be allowed to do it if that meeting in the OP (which I never heard of before now) was the only meeting in town. Because people would be in fear of the effect of what I said on others. I can't help but to see something very off about that.
As already stated, I practice letting go of my control over other people.
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This is why I need to quit forums over the summer... I'm getting a bit too caught up in this as I tend to be very protective of AA. Just read a little further... in regard to someone "unqualified", sharing:
I understand that there might be some usefulness to this type of meeting, yet it saddens me that it carries the AA name. It's clearly not what AA is about. I believe it gives AA a bad name... and it's time I bow out of here.
Some warning signs are that someone is at a BBSS meeting for the first time; mentions other methods, other 12-Step literature, AWOL's, treatment center step work, Joe and Charlie seminars and tapes, the 7 deadly sins, assets-liabilities checklists; talks around the step and won't get to the point; is unfamiliar to the group and is not familiar with BBSS meetings; is visiting from another group; is a popular and well respected oldtimer, but speaks very little of their own step experience, or how exactly they did the steps.
As described earlier, the chair must interrupt a person and ask them if they have "done this step the way it is laid out on these specific pages in the book Alcoholics Anonymous?" There are many approaches to this. Most successful approaches are direct, but always courteous and polite, and start with "Excuse me..." If the person says they have done it this way, or if there is still some doubt, the next step is to ask them if they would mind answering a few questions to satisfy the group. If they have done the steps, especially the 4th step the way it is laid out, they shouldn't mind too much if they are asked some questions related directly to the basic instructions for the 4th step, such as, "Can you please tell me what the main parts of the 4th step are?" and "What are the 4 main defects in the 1st part of the inventory? " or "How did you do your turnarounds?" and "How did you do your sex inventory?" These are not meant to embarrass the person, but to see if they are qualified to share. It is not fair to ask other people to pass and listen who are writing their 4th steps for months on end, and let people with questionable experience get by and water down the meeting. This weakens the group, and will frustrate qualified people who have had the experience, and do not want to hear (or for their sponsees to hear) about other methods which the group conscience rejects.
If the chairperson fails to do this at meeting level, a qualified person should go up to the person in question directly after the meeting to explain the format, and ask some of those same questions. Some chairpersons ask to see the visitor's 4th step, and offer to show them their own. This is all done in an attitude of genuine concern, helpfulness, and loving service.
Being tested, in front of a group of people, on their knowledge of a step according to the Bigbook? Wow! I'm flabbergasted. Also, IME the 7 deadly sins are an excellent and simple springboard for searching out "the flaws in our makeup." 31 years sober in AA and I never even heard the term "turnarounds" in relation to the 4th step. I could obviously go on and on regarding this. As described earlier, the chair must interrupt a person and ask them if they have "done this step the way it is laid out on these specific pages in the book Alcoholics Anonymous?" There are many approaches to this. Most successful approaches are direct, but always courteous and polite, and start with "Excuse me..." If the person says they have done it this way, or if there is still some doubt, the next step is to ask them if they would mind answering a few questions to satisfy the group. If they have done the steps, especially the 4th step the way it is laid out, they shouldn't mind too much if they are asked some questions related directly to the basic instructions for the 4th step, such as, "Can you please tell me what the main parts of the 4th step are?" and "What are the 4 main defects in the 1st part of the inventory? " or "How did you do your turnarounds?" and "How did you do your sex inventory?" These are not meant to embarrass the person, but to see if they are qualified to share. It is not fair to ask other people to pass and listen who are writing their 4th steps for months on end, and let people with questionable experience get by and water down the meeting. This weakens the group, and will frustrate qualified people who have had the experience, and do not want to hear (or for their sponsees to hear) about other methods which the group conscience rejects.
If the chairperson fails to do this at meeting level, a qualified person should go up to the person in question directly after the meeting to explain the format, and ask some of those same questions. Some chairpersons ask to see the visitor's 4th step, and offer to show them their own. This is all done in an attitude of genuine concern, helpfulness, and loving service.
I understand that there might be some usefulness to this type of meeting, yet it saddens me that it carries the AA name. It's clearly not what AA is about. I believe it gives AA a bad name... and it's time I bow out of here.
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It is not fair to ask other people to pass and listen who are writing their 4th steps for months on end, and let people with questionable experience get by and water down the meeting.
Some chairpersons ask to see the visitor's 4th step, and offer to show them their own.
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Originally Posted by Joe Nerv
This is why I need to quit forums over the summer... I'm getting a bit too caught up in this as I tend to be very protective of AA. Just read a little further... in regard to someone "unqualified", sharing:
I understand that there might be some usefulness to this type of meeting, yet it saddens me that it carries the AA name. It's clearly not what AA is about. I believe it gives AA a bad name... and it's time I bow out of here.
Some warning signs are that someone is at a BBSS meeting for the first time; mentions other methods, other 12-Step literature, AWOL's, treatment center step work, Joe and Charlie seminars and tapes, the 7 deadly sins, assets-liabilities checklists; talks around the step and won't get to the point; is unfamiliar to the group and is not familiar with BBSS meetings; is visiting from another group; is a popular and well respected oldtimer, but speaks very little of their own step experience, or how exactly they did the steps.
As described earlier, the chair must interrupt a person and ask them if they have "done this step the way it is laid out on these specific pages in the book Alcoholics Anonymous?" There are many approaches to this. Most successful approaches are direct, but always courteous and polite, and start with "Excuse me..." If the person says they have done it this way, or if there is still some doubt, the next step is to ask them if they would mind answering a few questions to satisfy the group. If they have done the steps, especially the 4th step the way it is laid out, they shouldn't mind too much if they are asked some questions related directly to the basic instructions for the 4th step, such as, "Can you please tell me what the main parts of the 4th step are?" and "What are the 4 main defects in the 1st part of the inventory? " or "How did you do your turnarounds?" and "How did you do your sex inventory?" These are not meant to embarrass the person, but to see if they are qualified to share. It is not fair to ask other people to pass and listen who are writing their 4th steps for months on end, and let people with questionable experience get by and water down the meeting. This weakens the group, and will frustrate qualified people who have had the experience, and do not want to hear (or for their sponsees to hear) about other methods which the group conscience rejects.
If the chairperson fails to do this at meeting level, a qualified person should go up to the person in question directly after the meeting to explain the format, and ask some of those same questions. Some chairpersons ask to see the visitor's 4th step, and offer to show them their own. This is all done in an attitude of genuine concern, helpfulness, and loving service.
Being tested, in front of a group of people, on their knowledge of a step according to the Bigbook? Wow! I'm flabbergasted. Also, IME the 7 deadly sins are an excellent and simple springboard for searching out "the flaws in our makeup." 31 years sober in AA and I never even heard the term "turnarounds" in relation to the 4th step. I could obviously go on and on regarding this. As described earlier, the chair must interrupt a person and ask them if they have "done this step the way it is laid out on these specific pages in the book Alcoholics Anonymous?" There are many approaches to this. Most successful approaches are direct, but always courteous and polite, and start with "Excuse me..." If the person says they have done it this way, or if there is still some doubt, the next step is to ask them if they would mind answering a few questions to satisfy the group. If they have done the steps, especially the 4th step the way it is laid out, they shouldn't mind too much if they are asked some questions related directly to the basic instructions for the 4th step, such as, "Can you please tell me what the main parts of the 4th step are?" and "What are the 4 main defects in the 1st part of the inventory? " or "How did you do your turnarounds?" and "How did you do your sex inventory?" These are not meant to embarrass the person, but to see if they are qualified to share. It is not fair to ask other people to pass and listen who are writing their 4th steps for months on end, and let people with questionable experience get by and water down the meeting. This weakens the group, and will frustrate qualified people who have had the experience, and do not want to hear (or for their sponsees to hear) about other methods which the group conscience rejects.
If the chairperson fails to do this at meeting level, a qualified person should go up to the person in question directly after the meeting to explain the format, and ask some of those same questions. Some chairpersons ask to see the visitor's 4th step, and offer to show them their own. This is all done in an attitude of genuine concern, helpfulness, and loving service.
I understand that there might be some usefulness to this type of meeting, yet it saddens me that it carries the AA name. It's clearly not what AA is about. I believe it gives AA a bad name... and it's time I bow out of here.
I apologize if this thread made you upset. I've been away from it for a while too because it upset me as well. My intention was not how it was taken at all by anyone so I know I am at fault there. I got way too excited when I was finally recovering and seeing my part in things, that I pushed it all onto you. I thought I was being helpful but I wasn't. I was being controlling and was playing God. I am sorry to everyone for that. I will try to never do that again in the future.
The meeting I go to has never done those things that you quoted, and I've never heard that read. I've only seen one time someone was asked questions about their work, because it was a routy person known from other meetings as someone who just liked to cause trouble, and the leader didn't want him to continue purposely disrupting the meeting.
Their whole point I think is to not water down the message and that the turnarounds i.e. 4th column is key. But I shouldn't speak for those who know the program better or who created it.
If other types of meetings work for you, then I am sincerely happy you found what works for you.
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