Other issues besides being an ACoA. Anyone else?
Bunnies!
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Location: Florida
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For me, the diagnosis was that last little bit of closure on my childhood. I was able to accept it, forgive my family for the abuse because of their dysfunction and my Aspergers clashing, and move on. I don't know what real benefit there is to diagnosis, like in a tangible way. But just letting the powers that be know we do exist and they can't squash us, is important, too.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
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Originally Posted by tromboneliness 
I get a little nervous when I hear people say "I won't settle," because that is never realistic. At least in my experience, I haven't seen a perfect person, house, job, city, company, product... or anything! Every decision we make, we're always "settling," whether we admit it or not. "I'm doing self-care, I'm worth it, I won't settle," always sounds like healthy Program-induced growth... but that runs smack into "progress, not perfection." "Settling" for less than perfection isn't a sign of weakness -- if anything, it's a sign of growth.
That stuff about "dwelling on the past" and "the 12-step pity party" is denial at work. Loosely translated: "My history is too scary to look at, so I'm going to pretend there's no point in it, and make fun of you for growing and changing -- meanwhile hoping you'll stop, because if you don't, you might not like me anymore!" But that's her thing -- nothing you can do about it, as you've figured out. I have some of the same issues -- although my wife (sober since '96 -- doesn't go to meetings or actively "work a program," but seems to have internalized the principles well enough that stuff works for her) is doing OK, I think she could benefit from going through the same exercises I go through with my ACA sponsor (the yellow workbook). But if she's not into it, she's not into it. She's still sober, everything looks OK there, and she's obviously not leaving me -- for whatever reasons, I'm not questioning anything at this point, got enough on my plate as it is.
So ya: the bottom line is --
Things I cannot change: other people
Thing I can change: me
Wisdom to know the difference: tricky!
T
That stuff about "dwelling on the past" and "the 12-step pity party" is denial at work. Loosely translated: "My history is too scary to look at, so I'm going to pretend there's no point in it, and make fun of you for growing and changing -- meanwhile hoping you'll stop, because if you don't, you might not like me anymore!" But that's her thing -- nothing you can do about it, as you've figured out. I have some of the same issues -- although my wife (sober since '96 -- doesn't go to meetings or actively "work a program," but seems to have internalized the principles well enough that stuff works for her) is doing OK, I think she could benefit from going through the same exercises I go through with my ACA sponsor (the yellow workbook). But if she's not into it, she's not into it. She's still sober, everything looks OK there, and she's obviously not leaving me -- for whatever reasons, I'm not questioning anything at this point, got enough on my plate as it is.
So ya: the bottom line is --
Things I cannot change: other people
Thing I can change: me
Wisdom to know the difference: tricky!
T
"Loosely translated" Truth in your loose translation for sure. Where the problem arises, for me, is I haven't addressed the trait 'get guilt feelings etc etc' as well as I feel I would like. So when I say, I'm off to a meeting, I feel guilty. When I'm talking program on the phone, or even here, I feel guilty. That's not her problem, that's mine! If I didn't feel guilty, her mocking wouldn't hurt, I wouldn't mention it.
But this makes the interaction on the topic somewhat toxic. Her fear of my growth which manifests as mocking, or criticism, or the denial style comments plays to my guilt feelings and fear of expressing my own needs and wants.
So I get hurt because of my guilt feelings. Or I risk building up a series of resentments based on my codependent compliant/manipulative patterns, I'm then people pleasing and approval seeking. I'm getting lost now, my false self is strong, my true self dashing back into hiding. This is the dynamic, yes codependent but that's why I'm doing a program. My sick thinking is not working for me and I know it.
Thanks
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I'm angry when I think of everything, so I try not to dwell on the past (doesn't always work). I have a great present and an awesome future, but it's funny how certain triggers take me right down memory lane.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
I think settling could be a little confused here. Some things it's ok to settle with because in the big picture it's unimportant. But, to settle when it's a core issue is not ok. As an example: I love tall, dark, and handsome. I settled for short, blond, and cute. Both are very attractive but I did settle. Why? Cause all the other things that make up my husband are for more important than the outside package. So, in the end it's not actually settling. I got much more than I ever thought. And that in my opinion is acceptable settling.
To allow someone to mock or dismiss our recovery is not ok. It isn't just that she isn't there in her recovery she is dismissing you in a fundamental way. You have a right to be hurt. Jeez there are a lot of things people do that I don't understand but I don't mock or dismiss them. It's wrong and you have a right to say I will not settle for being with someone who can't or won't extend me a simple courtesy.
Sure it's about progress and not perfection we are human after all but I do not believe it says anywhere that we should settle for less than what we need or deserve. There are times when being alone is better than settling. Settling I think is like having a small infected wound. Eventually it will grow larger, dig in deeper and kill us one way or another.
To allow someone to mock or dismiss our recovery is not ok. It isn't just that she isn't there in her recovery she is dismissing you in a fundamental way. You have a right to be hurt. Jeez there are a lot of things people do that I don't understand but I don't mock or dismiss them. It's wrong and you have a right to say I will not settle for being with someone who can't or won't extend me a simple courtesy.
Sure it's about progress and not perfection we are human after all but I do not believe it says anywhere that we should settle for less than what we need or deserve. There are times when being alone is better than settling. Settling I think is like having a small infected wound. Eventually it will grow larger, dig in deeper and kill us one way or another.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by makomago
I hear what you say with the "settling" comment. I don't disagree with the points you make except to say that you've taken the original post and point out of context. In that sense, you're wrong, the original point is true. Try reading it again, maybe? However, I do appreciate the additional points you make. Thank you.
When we first got together, my wife was still drinking (heavily), and was actually quite ill -- bad enough to have been looked at for a possible liver transplant. That's bad! But even then, I used to find that every so often, the clouds would part and things would be worth it for awhile -- even if it was only a day or two in a week, that was enough to hang onto, because underlying the whole thing was the idea that if I left, I'd be alone again, and probably for a long time, if not permanently. I still say that's the case -- if she got hit by a bus tomorrow, it's not like I'd discover that all of a sudden, I had developed this aptitude for picking up women! So... I guess there are two ways to look at it: (1) I settle for less, but (2) I give a lot of slack and get a lot in return. Neither one of us expects the other to be... perfect or anything close to it. I have a feeling if you asked, she probably sees it roughly the same way I do.
Hmmmm... now what was the topic again?
T
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by tromboneliness
Ya, I think I know what you mean -- and I'm totally guilty of doing it myself. "Settling for less" than the relationship qualities that I need, because I fear abandonment. It's a tough problem to fix, because... well, I fear abandonment! That, and because I'm so lousy at... getting involved with someone -- as in, I'm 51 and have only ever had one relationship (with my wife, and it's still going on).
When we first got together, my wife was still drinking (heavily), and was actually quite ill -- bad enough to have been looked at for a possible liver transplant. That's bad! But even then, I used to find that every so often, the clouds would part and things would be worth it for awhile -- even if it was only a day or two in a week, that was enough to hang onto, because underlying the whole thing was the idea that if I left, I'd be alone again, and probably for a long time, if not permanently. I still say that's the case -- if she got hit by a bus tomorrow, it's not like I'd discover that all of a sudden, I had developed this aptitude for picking up women! So... I guess there are two ways to look at it: (1) I settle for less, but (2) I give a lot of slack and get a lot in return. Neither one of us expects the other to be... perfect or anything close to it. I have a feeling if you asked, she probably sees it roughly the same way I do.
Hmmmm... now what was the topic again?
T
When we first got together, my wife was still drinking (heavily), and was actually quite ill -- bad enough to have been looked at for a possible liver transplant. That's bad! But even then, I used to find that every so often, the clouds would part and things would be worth it for awhile -- even if it was only a day or two in a week, that was enough to hang onto, because underlying the whole thing was the idea that if I left, I'd be alone again, and probably for a long time, if not permanently. I still say that's the case -- if she got hit by a bus tomorrow, it's not like I'd discover that all of a sudden, I had developed this aptitude for picking up women! So... I guess there are two ways to look at it: (1) I settle for less, but (2) I give a lot of slack and get a lot in return. Neither one of us expects the other to be... perfect or anything close to it. I have a feeling if you asked, she probably sees it roughly the same way I do.
Hmmmm... now what was the topic again?
T
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by Liberator4EVA
Jeez, what's wrong with me. Why can't I ever write a short post? Let me know if i spin a good yarn, or these stories are too long and boring and could be summarised with less words !
Recently, I've discovered another fellowship SLAA (sex and love addiction anonymous) and I can identify with much of what's being said and written. Although I'm firmly of the belief that ACA is my solution.
I can identify with (in some cases) relationship (love, or sex) anorexia. Instead of starving myself of food (nourishment) I starve myself of love, relationships, nurturing... Until I GO BANG the control Pops and I'll sneak off and have an affair, or a romantic fling, or a one night stand, or I'll just flirt with the ladies.
In every case, I'm attempting to get my needs met by external sources (codependent) because I can't generate self love as I'm wracked with self doubt and fear (Adult Child), which is the result of being brought up in my dysfunctional family. I can't get over my own sense of not being good poenough (shame) and I feel alone. I'm terrified of abandonment so sometimes I don't get involved, or I get too involved. My sense of balance, or proportion gets distorted with black and white (all or nothing) thinking - this is my grandiosity at work, I'm either God or a Worm.
My healthy self knows I'm acting out, my unhealthy self just needs a fix (drink, drugs, people, whatever). But as a friend of mine has said repeatedly; No Obsession Works!!
I've made my life difficult (unamangeable) for a long time as a result. Unfortunately, sometimes I can act out in the same way (repeat past behaviour), because I'm not as far down the recovery road as I thought and sometimes I'm ignorant of my own behaviour traits.
... I don't know where I'm going with this post. But thanks Liberator, I'm glad you posted what you posted in the level of detail you posted it in.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by tromboneliness
Ya, I think I know what you mean -- and I'm totally guilty of doing it myself. "Settling for less" than the relationship qualities that I need, because I fear abandonment. It's a tough problem to fix, because... well, I fear abandonment! That, and because I'm so lousy at... getting involved with someone -- as in, I'm 51 and have only ever had one relationship (with my wife, and it's still going on).
When we first got together, my wife was still drinking (heavily), and was actually quite ill -- bad enough to have been looked at for a possible liver transplant. That's bad! But even then, I used to find that every so often, the clouds would part and things would be worth it for awhile -- even if it was only a day or two in a week, that was enough to hang onto, because underlying the whole thing was the idea that if I left, I'd be alone again, and probably for a long time, if not permanently. I still say that's the case -- if she got hit by a bus tomorrow, it's not like I'd discover that all of a sudden, I had developed this aptitude for picking up women! So... I guess there are two ways to look at it: (1) I settle for less, but (2) I give a lot of slack and get a lot in return. Neither one of us expects the other to be... perfect or anything close to it. I have a feeling if you asked, she probably sees it roughly the same way I do.
Hmmmm... now what was the topic again?
T
When we first got together, my wife was still drinking (heavily), and was actually quite ill -- bad enough to have been looked at for a possible liver transplant. That's bad! But even then, I used to find that every so often, the clouds would part and things would be worth it for awhile -- even if it was only a day or two in a week, that was enough to hang onto, because underlying the whole thing was the idea that if I left, I'd be alone again, and probably for a long time, if not permanently. I still say that's the case -- if she got hit by a bus tomorrow, it's not like I'd discover that all of a sudden, I had developed this aptitude for picking up women! So... I guess there are two ways to look at it: (1) I settle for less, but (2) I give a lot of slack and get a lot in return. Neither one of us expects the other to be... perfect or anything close to it. I have a feeling if you asked, she probably sees it roughly the same way I do.
Hmmmm... now what was the topic again?
T
"So... I guess there are two ways to look at it: (1) I settle for less, but (2) I give a lot of slack and get a lot in return."
Trust me on this; I'm no relationship expert - I aspire to the level of novice, or beginner :-)!
But what you've written sounds healthy to me. ... From the start of our interaction on this topic/tangent.
"The key to freedom is finding out what one is getting and if its worth it."
If I reconcile that statement with what you've written. You know what you're getting and it's worth it! My friend, I salute you, you appear to have freedom.
& Thank you
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by happybeingme
Mako, that's great self awareness. However, I don't think 12 step programs are always the solution. Have you looked into therapy?
It's OK Happy. I realise they're sometimes only part of the solution for me. I've never been closed to the idea. I guess I just wasn't ready.
You know my feelings on 12 step programs. I think they're great because they've worked for me, so far. They can play a large part in recovery, or not. But they're not the only way. I'm good with that, I've tried them they've worked to a point.
I dropped my first lot of therapy when I was fresh out of alcoholic withdrawal. It served its purpose; but AA works/ed well for me. Today, despite everything and the pickle of my own making, I don't want to drink. That is down to a 12 step program... I've no doubt.
ACA the same, it's just time for me to try something extra. I'd have never uncovered my deep issues without ACA and the mistakes I make. I'd have stayed stuck and/or in denial of the problem... I think I need to external input to the system that is my flawed thinking and dysfunctional behaviour.
Thanks though, I appreciate your suggestion. You should have made it before Xmas though :-) (Joking)
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by makomago
If I reconcile that statement with what you've written. You know what you're getting and it's worth it! My friend, I salute you, you appear to have freedom.
T
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 688
Interesting to see several mentions of ADD and sexual issues here. A few of my kids have ADD or ADHD. I believe they got it from me. I have a terrible time focusing, following, staying with something. (Should I note that tonight it's particularly bad and I was unable to do little more than skim these posts? I just can't focus.)
I have no doubt whatsoever that my dad is a pervert in addition to being an alcoholic. Years of porn in the house, some weird habits that make me fear I'm going to read his name in the paper someday, a known incident of 'accidentally' exposing himself. I have a clear memory of sitting beside him at the age of about four, watching a very inappropriate movie.
And yes, these things have had negative impacts on me. I have struggled with depression, which results from the constant family issues. I believe my mother has labeled me a liar for forty years as a result of that movie (and perhaps other things I don't remember anymore, but told her), and I believe that years of her telling people these untrue things about me, rather than face her husband's issues, has destroyed my ability to have a good relationship with many of my extended family.
I struggle with the ability to say no to people and find myself in situations I very desperately don't want to be in because I was so afraid of not 'being nice' to them. And I see clearly how that traces back to being the scapegoat in an alcoholic family--always being lectured that I was at fault and should have been better, nicer, more thoughtful, etc.
And being caught in those situations feeds back into the struggle with depression.
I made a poor choice in marriage partners because he was better by far than my dad, he gave me the acceptance and approval I didn't get at home...and today I'm paying the price for that foolish decision which led to years of being with a liar and cheater who has continued to play his games with my family and made sure there can be no healing between us.
And so it goes...
I've begun to lose hope, in my late 40s, that I'm ever going to get off this not so merry go round.
I have no doubt whatsoever that my dad is a pervert in addition to being an alcoholic. Years of porn in the house, some weird habits that make me fear I'm going to read his name in the paper someday, a known incident of 'accidentally' exposing himself. I have a clear memory of sitting beside him at the age of about four, watching a very inappropriate movie.
And yes, these things have had negative impacts on me. I have struggled with depression, which results from the constant family issues. I believe my mother has labeled me a liar for forty years as a result of that movie (and perhaps other things I don't remember anymore, but told her), and I believe that years of her telling people these untrue things about me, rather than face her husband's issues, has destroyed my ability to have a good relationship with many of my extended family.
I struggle with the ability to say no to people and find myself in situations I very desperately don't want to be in because I was so afraid of not 'being nice' to them. And I see clearly how that traces back to being the scapegoat in an alcoholic family--always being lectured that I was at fault and should have been better, nicer, more thoughtful, etc.
And being caught in those situations feeds back into the struggle with depression.
I made a poor choice in marriage partners because he was better by far than my dad, he gave me the acceptance and approval I didn't get at home...and today I'm paying the price for that foolish decision which led to years of being with a liar and cheater who has continued to play his games with my family and made sure there can be no healing between us.
And so it goes...
I've begun to lose hope, in my late 40s, that I'm ever going to get off this not so merry go round.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 923
EveningRose...hopefully no losing hope--I started to 'wake up' at 45 to ACA issues...then became aware of husband issues.
Just ditto your post and you will know my story.
I am hoping I am not too late and turned 60 this year.
Anyone?
Just ditto your post and you will know my story.
I am hoping I am not too late and turned 60 this year.
Anyone?
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