Notices

Drinking is completely Rational

Old 01-06-2015, 03:31 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Sober Member
Thread Starter
 
Lancashire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 170
Drinking is completely Rational

I suppose when you think about it, drinking is completely rational.

We drink to alter our brain chemistry. Chemical reactions in our brain alter our state of consciousness, so we become less inhibited, more confident, more aggressive or passive and turn ourselves in to unpredictable immature indulgent animals, more instinct that intelligence.

Why cant you drive a car while drunk ? Because you are incapable of controlling your reactions and your not fully conscious.

Alcohol damages your liver, heart, brain, kidneys and about dozen other organs, yet it is legal to drink as much alcohol as you want.

Over time some humans become alcohol dependant and abuse alcohol in one form or another and they are castigated by society for doing so, the same society that introduced them to alcohol. Very unfair really.

When we try to quit, if you tell some people, they question your need to quit, its a little like one drug addict telling another drug addict that quitting is a mistake.

After years of become alcohol dependant, drinking becomes rational and not drinking seems very scary. All we want to do is feel normal and thats where the AV tries to trip me up, its says I can cut down, that I have proved I can give up the booze if needed.

This is where I say to my AV, drinking is rational and I am going to behave irrationally about it. I refuse to follow the crowd and I will not give in anymore.

If drinking is rational, then I must rebell.
Lancashire is offline  
Old 01-06-2015, 03:37 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
airwick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,544
Well put
airwick is offline  
Old 01-06-2015, 03:41 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Do your best
 
Soberwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Nice post Lancashire
Soberwolf is offline  
Old 01-06-2015, 04:15 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
PurpleKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
The legality of alcohol is a major hurdle in Sobriety being acceptable in some circles, some people I know just didn't get it!!

If I had of told my family/friends that I was giving up Heroin it would have had a different reaction to alcohol.

Nice post!!
PurpleKnight is offline  
Old 01-06-2015, 07:13 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
 
fini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,241
After years of become alcohol dependant, drinking becomes rational ...
well, no. it doesn't.
but yes, it makes you feel normal and quitting is scary.
none of that makes drinking rational after dependence develops.
it makes it understandable.

i'd be real careful with this statement:This is where I say to my AV, drinking is rational and I am going to behave irrationally about it. just because it would have been waaayyy too easy for my "voice" to immediately flip that over into the opposite.

this is kinda like a double negative, and my trying-to-stay-quit-mind would have had a field day with this.
but, and it's a big BUT: if it works for you, do it.
fini is offline  
Old 01-06-2015, 07:25 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 296
I would say no, drinking to excess is never rational. Never will be.
Why do alcoholics try to rationalize everything and anything especially when it comes to booze?

Normal drinkers have 1 or 2 drinks, feel woozy and stop.
Alcoholics feel woozy and they suck on that bottle harder!
I think in a lot of respects its like a baby soother to them. Its been a very long time since I sucked on bottle, or swallowed poison. Sometimes we have good days, sometimes we have bad days. The good days outweigh the bad days. The harder moments become shorter and shorter and easier to control.
markz is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 01:57 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Sober Member
Thread Starter
 
Lancashire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 170
The definition of Rational is : Based on or in accordance with reason or logic:

As the reasoning part of your brain is also the part of your brain involved in the Alcoholic Voice. (i.e., you are reasoning with yourself), your rational brain is giving you excuses, reasons and logical ways to avoid being sober and to drink.

If I see a bottle of wine (like yesterday) and pour it down the sink. My rational thoughts are telling me, its a waste, it costs money. Another part of my brain is reasoning with this rational brain and saying, (yes but it is harmful).

This conflict is not rational. It is not rational to have two parts of the brain in disagreement with each other, therefore irrational thought in the face of reason must win out.

(Do not confuse rational with being right or wrong)
If I irrationally thoughts that sobriety is the way forward or counterbalanced by the rational thoughts that its ok to drink. Then irrationally is the right and rationally is wrong.

Is it rational to put your hand in a hot fire. No. So why would I do it ?
I wouldnt.

But is it rational for me to drink alcohol harming my body. No. So why would I do it ?
I would. (there is an error with this line of thinking).

So the exact opposites must apply.

Is it rational for me to be drinking alcohol harming my body. Yes. So why would I do it ?
I wouldn't. (Because I know it is harming me).

This is the dichotomy of addiction. Rational thoughts are used against the person and so perpetuating the addiction even though they know its wrong. This is why the relapse rates are so high, if drinking was irrational, we simply wouldn't do it and none of us would be here.

It is the fact that an alcoholic sees drinking as rational, whereas other see it as irrational is the root of alcoholism and what separates us from so called "normal drinker".
Lancashire is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 02:04 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
DarkDays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: London
Posts: 1,384
I really do not know these normal drinkers that drink 1 or 2 drinks that people often refer to on this site ,certainly not here in the uk , every single person I know drinks more than the weekly limit . It's like a pandemic in the uk , a & e units clogged up with drunks everyday up and down the uk , violence , deaths and countless drunken mishaps reported near on daily in our press yet they still go on about smoking or the handful of people that die of ecstasy each year like that is the real problem when the real problem is staring them slap bang in the middle of the face, one word. DENIAL.
DarkDays is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 02:11 AM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
 
Zencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,691
Drinking can be rationalized as in a cognitive distortion. sure the drink has a sinister pull and so dose the addictive brain that twist drinking into fun times when it is actual deterioration of the soul.

Countering all drinking thoughts is not impossible. Thus making recovery progress a monumental breeze.
Zencat is online now  
Old 01-07-2015, 02:15 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Sober Member
Thread Starter
 
Lancashire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by DarkDays View Post
I really do not know these normal drinkers that drink 1 or 2 drinks that people often refer to on this site ,certainly not here in the uk , every single person I know drinks more than the weekly limit . It's like a pandemic in the uk , a & e units clogged up with drunks everyday up and down the uk , violence , deaths and countless drunken mishaps reported near on daily in our press yet they still go on about smoking or the handful of people that die of ecstasy each year like that is the real problem when the real problem is staring them slap bang in the middle of the face, one word. DENIAL.
I have to agree with you. I know girls that drink 3 bottles of red wine, BEFORE going out on a night out. Then its shots, chasers and a kebab on the way home and off to work in the morning. No problems.

I would be destroyed on that, people are different. I consider myself as a problem drinker, they wouldnt.
Lancashire is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 02:16 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Sober Member
Thread Starter
 
Lancashire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by Zencat View Post
Drinking can be rationalized as in a cognitive distortion. sure the drink has a sinister pull and so dose the addictive brain that twist drinking into fun times when it is actual deterioration of the soul.

Countering all drinking thoughts is not impossible. Thus making recovery progress a monumental breeze.
Wow Zencat, Bloody good to meet you.
Lancashire is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 02:19 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
ubntubnt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,222
I'm Irish. Living an expat lifestyle. I guess I don't really need to say more.
In Ireland at least half of my friends were alcoholic. Where I live now its at least half. I don't know a single person who never drinks and my wife is the only person I know who rarely drinks and when she does its one glass or less. It would be easy for your AV to convince you that you are not so bad or that this is how life is. Really its irrelevant though, right? The only thing that matters is whether YOU are living the life that you want to live and if not why not?
ubntubnt is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 02:26 AM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Sober Member
Thread Starter
 
Lancashire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by ubntubnt View Post
I'm Irish. Living an expat lifestyle. I guess I don't really need to say more.
In Ireland at least half of my friends were alcoholic. Where I live now its at least half. I don't know a single person who never drinks and my wife is the only person I know who rarely drinks and when she does its one glass or less. It would be easy for your AV to convince you that you are not so bad or that this is how life is. Really its irrelevant though, right? The only thing that matters is whether YOU are living the life that you want to live and if not why not?
I agree with what you said. Except for the irrelevance. Knowing that the rational part of your brain is the part that is presenting options, excuses and get out jail free cards to resume drinking again, has helped me when I get urges and cravings as I did for the first time last night.

I was in my local supermarket and wandered into the drinks aisle. I was rationalising resuming drinking again. May be if I just drank small drinks of whisky. Maybe just a bottle of wine once a week. What about buying the wine and only drinking on a special occasion like normal people.

These thoughts were totally rational to me at the time. I came to my senses and realised what was happening and walked off without purchase. I saw the enemy and began to recognise it. This has been an invaluable too for me, but I agree not for everyone.

If we all recovered in the same way, wow wouldn't that be easy.
Lancashire is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 02:31 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
I think the key difference is that alcohol has a stimulant effect on alcoholics and a depressant effect on others.

when I settled down to have a few quiet beers on a saturday night, after 4 or 5, wild horses couldn't keep my ass on that couch.

I was out to see the world. Cause I felt absolutely bloody marvellous .... top of the world Ma.

Normies, have a few drinks after work or on a saturday and it relaxs them, then they go to bed.
Hawks is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 03:51 AM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
FreeOwl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
I argue that it is entirely irrational.

We are creatures who are first and foremost rationally intent on survival.

Yet we ingest a substance known to endanger our survival, known to have both short and long term negative consequences - even after many and prolonged direct experiences of negative consequence.

Any other threatening of dangerous experience we have in life leads us to avoid like situations in the future - yet we go back to alcohol time and again even after near-death experiences with it.

Further - our science doesn't even know quite how or why alcohol does what it does. We know that it changes the very structures of the brain and body at a cellular level but after much research we don't even know what the hell it is and why it works.....

So an organism whose primary priority is survival willingly endangers its own survival by repeatedly consuming a substance of unknown function and impact despite repeatedly encountering its terrible, survival-threatening effects.

This is not in keeping with logic or reason.

This is irrationality, insanity illustrated.

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/yo...-brain-alcohol
FreeOwl is offline  
Old 01-07-2015, 04:31 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
 
Zencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,691
Unread Today, 02:26 AM
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Zencat View Post
Drinking can be rationalized as in a cognitive distortion. sure the drink has a sinister pull and so dose the addictive brain that twist drinking into fun times when it is actual deterioration of the soul.

Countering all drinking thoughts is not impossible. Thus making recovery progress a monumental breeze.
Wow Zencat, Bloody good to meet you.
__________________As you too.


You can if willing, you can recover without much trouble.
Zencat is online now  
Old 01-08-2015, 08:39 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
 
fini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,241
...if drinking was irrational, we simply wouldn't do it and none of us would be here.

It is the fact that an alcoholic sees drinking as rational, whereas other see it as irrational is the root of alcoholism ...


my drinking was irrational.
and i KNEW it was irrational.
i decided to simply not do it.
then, irrationally, i returned to drinking.
irrationally, i did this countless times.
the fact that i couldn't "simply not do it" when i KNEW it was irrational had me in despair.
i didn't see my drinking ort repeated returns to it as rational.
or reasonable.
or making sense.
but did it anyway.
fini is offline  
Old 01-08-2015, 08:45 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
I will NOT drink to that!
 
JT0626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Baltimore MD USA
Posts: 634
Excellent!!!
JT0626 is offline  
Old 03-29-2015, 02:17 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
lillyknitting
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Loughton, Essex, England
Posts: 638
Originally Posted by DarkDays View Post
I really do not know these normal drinkers that drink 1 or 2 drinks that people often refer to on this site ,certainly not here in the uk , every single person I know drinks more than the weekly limit . It's like a pandemic in the uk , a & e units clogged up with drunks everyday up and down the uk , violence , deaths and countless drunken mishaps reported near on daily in our press yet they still go on about smoking or the handful of people that die of ecstasy each year like that is the real problem when the real problem is staring them slap bang in the middle of the face, one word. DENIAL.
One hundred percent agree with you DD. My hubby, like yourself also a cabbie, plus maybe one other friend of mine who literally just would have one or two drinks, never, ever, more than that. My hubby forever has said: I just can't understand why anyone would render themselves so drunk & so violently unwell and then go out & do it all over again. This friend of mine would never, ever frequent pubs, say like the Friday nights etc. People who go to pubs regularly go to drink. All my drinking mates get drunk & they do it every single week. They are in total denial, they could not understand why I gave alcohell up! They outcast me for doing so, and yet these very same people would bemoan their hangovers & swear off the stuff every week!!! You rock DD & sobriety is the coolest thing on earth.
lillyknitting is offline  
Old 03-29-2015, 05:14 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Do your best
 
Soberwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Exclamation

This thread is from January guys
Soberwolf is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:00 AM.