"alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages"
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
"alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages"
I have heard this said: "alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages".
As a recovering A also recovering from Codependency, I think I understand what this saying means, but am curious if others could splain it to me real simply.
I think back to my active days when:
I couldn't tell an anecdote, it had to be an epic.
I did not have dialogues, I had monolgues.
I awfulized everything that happened to me, making me feel special.
My bad day was your bad day, too.
Is it kinda like that?
Would love to wrap my head around this better. ThankS!
As a recovering A also recovering from Codependency, I think I understand what this saying means, but am curious if others could splain it to me real simply.
I think back to my active days when:
I couldn't tell an anecdote, it had to be an epic.
I did not have dialogues, I had monolgues.
I awfulized everything that happened to me, making me feel special.
My bad day was your bad day, too.
Is it kinda like that?
Would love to wrap my head around this better. ThankS!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
How it eventually applied to my life was that we did everything he wanted to. The saying I relate to more than this one is "the world revolves around the alcoholic."
I do believe for the time I stayed stuck I was in a sense a willing hostage.
I do believe for the time I stayed stuck I was in a sense a willing hostage.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 242
I'd personally say it's a bit of a generalisation.
Probably it's more an underlying personality trait that predates the alcoholism.
I know for my dad, it was fear of loss of control, having been over controlled by his own mother, which led him to be controlling in relationships over a period of some years when he was also severely emotionally ill, but untreated.
Probably it's more an underlying personality trait that predates the alcoholism.
I know for my dad, it was fear of loss of control, having been over controlled by his own mother, which led him to be controlling in relationships over a period of some years when he was also severely emotionally ill, but untreated.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
In AA I heard "alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages".
In Alanon I heard "there are no victims only volunteers"
I believe that those are both sides of the same coin
Alcoholics look for "volunteers"
both need help
In Alanon I heard "there are no victims only volunteers"
I believe that those are both sides of the same coin
Alcoholics look for "volunteers"
both need help
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
for me, it meant that i lived totallly revolving around his chaos, abuse, problems. it was like walking on eggshells all the time.....everything was about him and his reactions to any incident.
the more i tried to be a good mate, the worse everything became. i became invisible, with him becoming the bright, twisted shining light of the universe.....a very sick universe. which of course, as long as i was willing, dragged me right along on his coattails.
the more i tried to be a good mate, the worse everything became. i became invisible, with him becoming the bright, twisted shining light of the universe.....a very sick universe. which of course, as long as i was willing, dragged me right along on his coattails.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 282
To me it means they will do anything to keep their way of life from crumbling. They will tell you what you want to hear and also what they want you to hear. they can break you down little by little so you have no self esteem and you won't want to leave. They need someone, an enabler, to help them exist in their sick bubble. They talk down to you and you believe it.They say they love you and you believe it. They hit you and you apologize later.
Pretty soon your brain becomes just as sick as theirs. everything is twisted. Most times you could get up and leave when you felt like it was getting bad but not this time...you can't leave...there are a million reasons why you have to stay. None of them are real but you are convinced they are. Being a recovering codie I can look back and see that I was a hostage. I didn't think so at the time...I knew something was wrong...but I thought it was all me. I was a prisoner in an invisible jail that I unknowingly helped create.
That's what the phrase means to me.
Pretty soon your brain becomes just as sick as theirs. everything is twisted. Most times you could get up and leave when you felt like it was getting bad but not this time...you can't leave...there are a million reasons why you have to stay. None of them are real but you are convinced they are. Being a recovering codie I can look back and see that I was a hostage. I didn't think so at the time...I knew something was wrong...but I thought it was all me. I was a prisoner in an invisible jail that I unknowingly helped create.
That's what the phrase means to me.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mobile AL
Posts: 101
In whole hearted agreement.....
Loner,
I can really relate to the things you wrote in your passage....
My father used the example of an physically abusive person.....how guilty they feel......they apologize and you just keep staying there.....like it's all okay.
What baffles me about "their sick little bubble" is that us codies fall for it....crave it even. They have no idea that they're really doing it....and we have no idea that we're falling for it.
"I was a prisoner in an invisible jail, that I unknowingly helped create". YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!! You think to yourself.....how the heck did that happen? When did I stop caring about myself, my success, my finances, my friends, my family just to stick up for someone who OBVIOUSLY has a PROBLEM????
Just wanted to thank you for your response.....
K
I can really relate to the things you wrote in your passage....
My father used the example of an physically abusive person.....how guilty they feel......they apologize and you just keep staying there.....like it's all okay.
What baffles me about "their sick little bubble" is that us codies fall for it....crave it even. They have no idea that they're really doing it....and we have no idea that we're falling for it.
"I was a prisoner in an invisible jail, that I unknowingly helped create". YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!! You think to yourself.....how the heck did that happen? When did I stop caring about myself, my success, my finances, my friends, my family just to stick up for someone who OBVIOUSLY has a PROBLEM????
Just wanted to thank you for your response.....
K
Originally Posted by loner1968 
To me it means they will do anything to keep their way of life from crumbling. They will tell you what you want to hear and also what they want you to hear. they can break you down little by little so you have no self esteem and you won't want to leave. They need someone, an enabler, to help them exist in their sick bubble. They talk down to you and you believe it.They say they love you and you believe it. They hit you and you apologize later.
Pretty soon your brain becomes just as sick as theirs. everything is twisted. Most times you could get up and leave when you felt like it was getting bad but not this time...you can't leave...there are a million reasons why you have to stay. None of them are real but you are convinced they are. Being a recovering codie I can look back and see that I was a hostage. I didn't think so at the time...I knew something was wrong...but I thought it was all me. I was a prisoner in an invisible jail that I unknowingly helped create.
That's what the phrase means to me.
Pretty soon your brain becomes just as sick as theirs. everything is twisted. Most times you could get up and leave when you felt like it was getting bad but not this time...you can't leave...there are a million reasons why you have to stay. None of them are real but you are convinced they are. Being a recovering codie I can look back and see that I was a hostage. I didn't think so at the time...I knew something was wrong...but I thought it was all me. I was a prisoner in an invisible jail that I unknowingly helped create.
That's what the phrase means to me.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
Yes, this is the very nature of chemical addiction. Doing "whatever it takes" to keep using, keep enablers to support your using and clean up the messes you make.
Originally Posted by Ago
In AA I heard "alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages".
In Alanon I heard "there are no victims only volunteers"
I believe that those are both sides of the same coin
Alcoholics look for "volunteers"
both need help
In Alanon I heard "there are no victims only volunteers"
I believe that those are both sides of the same coin
Alcoholics look for "volunteers"
both need help
Sunny Side Up
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sth Australia
Posts: 3,802
After reading all the posts it reminded me of what Id say every time my ASis gets a new boyfriend.
Here comes another victim.... and Id say why are they putting up with all that crap? What 'normal' bloke would put up with that? But you know what - I did!! for years.
Its like a spider slowly spinning a web and it slowly sucks you right in. We are both hostages in this disease.
Here comes another victim.... and Id say why are they putting up with all that crap? What 'normal' bloke would put up with that? But you know what - I did!! for years.
Its like a spider slowly spinning a web and it slowly sucks you right in. We are both hostages in this disease.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
I agree with that phrase.
My experience was being overwhelmed with flowers, dinners, love notes and doing any and every thing I wanted to do...for a while. I remember pulling away at times thinking that this was too much. He needed too much attention. Every little thing would create an emotional tidal wave that I would try to help him figure out and make better. The seas would calm and if there was nothing to freak out about, then he would create something to fuss over. He always cried to me about whatever was happening. Only I could help him. I used to believe this, and felt bound to him. If he was okay, then I was okay.
My experience was being overwhelmed with flowers, dinners, love notes and doing any and every thing I wanted to do...for a while. I remember pulling away at times thinking that this was too much. He needed too much attention. Every little thing would create an emotional tidal wave that I would try to help him figure out and make better. The seas would calm and if there was nothing to freak out about, then he would create something to fuss over. He always cried to me about whatever was happening. Only I could help him. I used to believe this, and felt bound to him. If he was okay, then I was okay.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I see the truth in that statement, m.c., but personally? I don't find it useful. Not only is it a generalization, it reinforces the thought that we are victims and we can't leave our captors.
The difference between me (as his 'hostage') and a real hostage is that I could walk away any time. No guns trained on me, no locked cells.
But I FELT like I couldn't, so really, I was a hostage to myself, to my own screwed-up thinking that said I should stay and take this really horrible treatment. When I finally walked out of that jail, I blinked up at the sunlight and thought, "You mean I could've left any time? Jeez, who knew?"
The difference between me (as his 'hostage') and a real hostage is that I could walk away any time. No guns trained on me, no locked cells.
But I FELT like I couldn't, so really, I was a hostage to myself, to my own screwed-up thinking that said I should stay and take this really horrible treatment. When I finally walked out of that jail, I blinked up at the sunlight and thought, "You mean I could've left any time? Jeez, who knew?"
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 92
The statement makes sense in that we do become hostages, without realizing it, but willing hostages. Like GiveLove mentioned, it's probably not useful to focus on that statement because it's a prison of our own making and we can walk away at any time; it just may not feel like we can. We can easily start to feel so responsible for their recovery and happiness that we come to believe we are the only ones that can help them We often are doing everything for them which just makes it easier for them to keep doing what they're doing. When I look back on my relationship with my XAH, I can see that I willingly made myself indespensible to him and started to focus more and more of my life on helping him get sober, rather than putting that energy back where it belonged - on my life. He never at any time asked me to do that. So, if we become hostages, we are willing hostages.
AKA 'grewupinabarn'
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 471
I am also not sure I agree with the 'hostage' part, as we chose to go along with the alcoholic. In my own case I chose to maintain my codie state of mind many years past the passing of my parents. Only recently (since logging on here) have I seen my actions as a choice, and other healthier choices are available.
As an analogy I have often thought of alcoholism (not the alcoholic) as a sort of black hole that warps and twists everything nearby (emotions, relationships, health, the truth) to serve the single purpose of perpetuating the addiction. And one is blinded to the actual cause.
Analogies only go so far. Communicat, you really hit me over the head with these statements:
Especially the 'feel special' part. That got me right where I live. It is statements like this that keep us on the right track. Thanks.
As an analogy I have often thought of alcoholism (not the alcoholic) as a sort of black hole that warps and twists everything nearby (emotions, relationships, health, the truth) to serve the single purpose of perpetuating the addiction. And one is blinded to the actual cause.
Analogies only go so far. Communicat, you really hit me over the head with these statements:
I couldn't tell an anecdote, it had to be an epic.
I did not have dialogues, I had monolgues.
I awfulized everything that happened to me, making me feel special.
My bad day was your bad day, too.
I did not have dialogues, I had monolgues.
I awfulized everything that happened to me, making me feel special.
My bad day was your bad day, too.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 63
A willing hostage......that sums it up pretty good.
Soo many things get put on hold thinking the situation will improve that the AH will improve.....but it never does....it all falls on deaf ears.
Until there's a consequence of the person's drunk driving that they cannot ignore....like back fusion surgery where 5 vertebrae are fused with 10 screws and 2 rods.
Yeah....that got his attention.
Soo many things get put on hold thinking the situation will improve that the AH will improve.....but it never does....it all falls on deaf ears.
Until there's a consequence of the person's drunk driving that they cannot ignore....like back fusion surgery where 5 vertebrae are fused with 10 screws and 2 rods.
Yeah....that got his attention.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 219
Reminds me of Stokholm Syndrome.
Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which they have been placed. The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg, Stockholm, Sweden, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28 in 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers, and even defended their captors after they were freed from their six-day ordeal.
Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which they have been placed. The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg, Stockholm, Sweden, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28 in 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers, and even defended their captors after they were freed from their six-day ordeal.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
