Bloody Nora! This Looks A Good Site

[Five]

http://www.changingminds.org/

[Five]

Er, actually, I think its partly about changing others minds - which I think is deeply wrong!

But there is some great stuff there about coping etc.

[equus]

Er, actually, I think its partly about changing others minds - which I think is deeply wrong!

Is it? What if your dear friend had a belief that if they left AA they would be unable to cope but at the same time was becoming more deeply depressed the more they went? (hypothetical!! - NOT a comment on AA).

What if as in my job sometimes people believe a certain action isn't cost effective - yet I can change their mind by showing it is required by law?

What about people who have a good heart but have learned a hatred for asylum seekers? Is it not worth saying what % are unaccompanied children, or that over a quarter of them were professionals in their own country?

What about those who are afraid of teenagers and protest to outside children's homes with plackards while the children watch through the window?

Changing other people's minds is a part of life and has been since time begun, my mind has been changed and I'm grateful to leave behind the days when I believed things that simply didn't hold water.

What matters is to respect each other, respect that changing minds is no more about another's mind than our own and that inevitabley at times we will be the ones in the wrong.

[Five]

Couldnt agree more. But I think this site had something a bit deceptive about it. Deceptive mind change is not always groovey.

[aloneagainor]

Originally Posted by Five

Couldnt agree more. But I think this site had something a bit deceptive about it. Deceptive mind change is not always groovey.

First impression is that there's some creepy underlying tone of manipulation inherent in their approach. Like the "Free Persuasion Tips" that lure the reader with "The simple trick you can use to start communicating instantly with someone’s unconscious mind." I dunno, I've been on the giving and receiving side of those "tricks", but unless BOTH parties are AWARE of the techniques and head games it seems somehow sinister to play. Of course people employ such techniques in every interaction, which may be why I've chosen to largely opt out of interpersonal communication and stick with writing where things are spelled out more clearly...

Originally Posted by equus

What matters is to respect each other, respect that changing minds is no more about another's mind than our own and that inevitabley at times we will be the ones in the wrong.

Which is where things get so tricky...when people don't respect the other's position and insist that their version of the story is the single right one, and expect that everyone else agree. Is there anyone who can teach humanity that? Respect for others beliefs and position and opinion? Strange that most religions don't teach THAT as the core belief. Imagine the peace that could result.

Love this forum...keeps me thinking...

[Five]

Originally Posted by aloneagainor

First impression is that there's some creepy underlying tone of manipulation inherent in their approach. Like the "Free Persuasion Tips" that lure the reader with "The simple trick you can use to start communicating instantly with someone’s unconscious mind." I dunno, I've been on the giving and receiving side of those "tricks", but unless BOTH parties are AWARE of the techniques and head games it seems somehow sinister to play. Of course people employ such techniques in every interaction, which may be why I've chosen to largely opt out of interpersonal communication and stick with writing where things are spelled out more clearly...



Which is where things get so tricky...when people don't respect the other's position and insist that their version of the story is the single right one, and expect that everyone else agree. Is there anyone who can teach humanity that? Respect for others beliefs and position and opinion? Strange that most religions don't teach THAT as the core belief. Imagine the peace that could result.

Love this forum...keeps me thinking...

And I love your writing SUre people have commented on it before - but it skips along like a dream.

[aloneagainor]

Originally Posted by Five

And I love your writing SUre people have commented on it before - but it skips along like a dream.

I spend a lot of time in here, nice to share this dream with others who have ears to hear it. I tell it to my chickens but they don't seem to get it. They're all in their own little worlds too. Most humans I talk to just tell me I'm weird. It's nice to relate. It's what's keeping me here, trying to connect.

[equus]

Errrrrr....

*Equus enters confessional booth*

I didn't look at the site..........

You know though sometimes I would be tempted to trick people at work, I think I'd use most any trick I could muster to take something away from 'us vs them' and keep it as people, just people.

On the other hand - as I've quoted so many times I've lost count; I still lay store in my friends reasoning that "Strong words (words that make for change) are when the heart and mouth speak one language - not two like a politician."

[Five]

"I dunno, I've been on the giving and receiving side of those "tricks" -

Boy, so have I.

[Five]

Secularisim teaches that alone - although it has its intolerant moments.

[aloneagainor]

Originally Posted by Five

Secularisim teaches that alone - although it has its intolerant moments.

Secularism teaches what alone?

About the head games people play; recognizing them for what they are allows one to opt out of playing them, and realizing when they're being played on them. But it does no good to point out to someone when they're playing a trick on you, they get mad, as thought you're taking their defences away! People are like cats that way, so unwilling to look at our reflections in the mirror.

[historyteach]

In my view, "secularism" teaches nothing.
People who adhere to the world view entitled secularism may teach us something -- intolerance or whathaveyou.
But, an inanimate idea doesn't teach. People do.

Shalom!

[aloneagainor]

Originally Posted by historyteach

In my view, "secularism" teaches nothing.
People who adhere to the world view entitled secularism may teach us something -- intolerance or whathaveyou.
But, an inanimate idea doesn't teach. People do.

I'm confused. Are you saying secularism promotes intolerance?
And I'm really confused about the inanimate idea idea. Maybe I'm in over my head on this one.

[historyteach]

My point is only that it's *people* who teach -- not an idea.
Secularism is an idea only. It cannnot teach, because it doen't have to ability to do anything on it's own. It's inanimate.
However, I do believe that secularists -- the people who agree with the ideas inherent in secularism -- can be just as intolerant as any other person. They too can assume that they alone have the "truth."

Just my wandering thoughts here. Ideas don't teach -- people do.

Shalom!

[c'est la vie]

How can I be so confused about what you're talking about? I thought secularism was simply "without organized religion".


As far as teaching being done by living things or inanimate objects, I think people can learn from both. If I drop a rock on my head, I learn that it hurts and I shouldn't do that again. I don't need anyone around to tell me that.


And lastly, my technical hair splitting about changing minds, I think that a person can believe something and present evidence to support their belief, but ultimately cannot change another person's mind for them. An individual will change his or her own mind if he or she receives enough information to warrant a mind changing. But I get what you all are saying.


Cool thread. Good mind exercises.

[historyteach]

The rock didn't "teach" you that lesson. You learned it on your own.
The rock cannot "teach" because teaching is an activity. It's a behavior. Rocks can't be active on their own; they cannot choose a behavior.

It's hair splitting, yes, but, I jsut wanted to add that information. Clarity of words leads to better understanding, I believe. That understanding can lead to changes in behavior, I agree.

Does this make sense now?

SHalom!

[c'est la vie]

We were posting at the same time so I didn't see that you were refering to "an idea" not being a teacher. For me, it kind of goes in the same category as the rock. I can think of the idea to say a kind word to everyone that walks by and see the reation of the passersby. I then learn that the idea of "kindness" results in smiles or kind words in return. I can also think of the idea to trip every tenth person and see what happens. I will probably learn that the idea of "meanness" will result in a black eye.

I can argue with myself on this one since it may be seen that the people smiling or punching are ultimately the teachers of the lesson. How's that for talking out of both sides of my mouth. LOL