new here, old to the problem.

Old 08-08-2017, 01:17 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
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In your OP nine days ago you say:
Originally Posted by Wildwood
...drinking most of my adult life, around 25 years. knew for a long time i was in trouble but finally managed to quit early 2014. stayed quit for over 2 years but for the last 6 months was heading for [planning to drink] and finally did relapse [and am now drinking again].

i have been drinking with days off since around this time last year and keep tripping at [choosing to decide against] the finality of 'never' and forever'.
reading around these boards, i had used a baby type of AVRT. and now im ready to do it again.
i have read this website, the RR website, ordered the book and made my BP last night.
I added the red words to focus on reality.

Well, not surprisingly, it appears the "baby type of AVRT" and its baby BP isn't working this second time either. In fact it's been reduced from two years to at most nine days. As you state today:

Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
... i havent quit yet. ...
i have the RR book and am reading it carefully, with notes and bookmarks. clever me eh? [not if you're drinking] reading it is making the AV go nuts, and i have trouble ultimately separating it. i suppose awarnes of that is a start. i can see it in myself and others but that sometimes i believe i am agreeing with it and saying 'when i finish the book' pure AV.
One day down the road when you wake up NOT under the influence, THEN is the time to start over reading "Rational Recovery, The New Cure..."

AVRT cannot be learned under the influence of alcohol/drugs.
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Old 08-08-2017, 01:46 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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i dont read it when i have been drinking, i understand that. the 'clever me' was sarcastic. i'm getting there, the 'never'. i will get there.
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Old 08-08-2017, 02:50 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
Not The Way way, Just the way
 
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What has your drinking, then reading about AVRT, then drinking, then reading about AVRT itinerary been so far? For instance, do you read and drink on the same day?
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:31 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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That's an interesting question GT.
I'm sure I remember something about how beasts like to mingle with others.
I've still not finished the book and I've got notes, bookmarks, all sorts of recovery info all over the place.
Sarcasm doesn't come across well in type.
I got a lot of time reading the AVRT thread before I even got the book and the online crash course was the bullet of light that scored my A.C.E. after making my BP

Last edited by CelticZebra; 08-08-2017 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Extra info
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Old 08-08-2017, 04:09 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
i had a meeting (not AA) at the addiction centre today and i heard IT everywhere... [Examples of others' AV] ...
You cam turn that focus on yourself, Wildwood.

Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
what did it make me think? im not as bad as them. i know what they dont. why dont they get off the merry-go-round. yeah right. im sitting there too. i havent quit yet. im no better. i dont know enough. im still on that merry-go-round.
The underlined parts in your post, above, are your Addictive Voice.

Remember the definition of the Addictive Voice: Any thinking or feeling that supports, suggests, or directs your possible future use of alcohol and other drugs.

The idea that you 'don't know enough' AVRT, and that you will keep drinking until do know enough, supports and suggests your possible future use of alcohol. It is AV -- the Beast barking at you.

Combined with the 'I'm still on the merry go round', it almost amounts to the all-time classic AV Möbius strip: "If you could have quit, you would have quit, but you didn't quit, so you can't quit." (At least until you know enough, says the Beast.)

Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
i have the RR book and am reading it carefully, with notes and bookmarks. clever me eh? reading it is making the AV go nuts, and i have trouble ultimately separating it.
It may help you to understand that in AVRT, the Beast is not the cause of your addiction -- the Addictive Voice is. The Beast is a quadriplegic, and it can't actually 'do' anything except to 'bark' AV at you.

AV → Beast = Bark → Dog

The AV is the 'bark' of the Beast, in words and images, in your mind's eye and ear. It's subtle, but there is a distinction. The bark is not the dog, and the AV is not the Beast. The AV is merely its human voice.

Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
i suppose awarnes of that is a start. i can see it in myself and others but that sometimes i believe i am agreeing with it and saying 'when i finish the book' pure AV.
Don't attempt to debate with the AV, which argues both sides of all arguments anyway, and is indisputable. The Big Plan is the ultimate refutation, and anything the Beast says is dead wrong, even before it says it. Simply recognize your AV, and attribute it to the Beast -- to IT.

If you haven't made a Big Plan, consider making a temporary one, such as "I will not drink again until I completely finish reading the RR book."

This may help you with the Beast's stall and procrastination tactics.

Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
i dont read it when i have been drinking, i understand that. the 'clever me' was sarcastic. i'm getting there, the 'never'. i will get there.
Your Beast is certainly not sarcastic, Wildwood. It is reading the RR book along with you, and looking over your shoulder -- for loopholes. This is why it 'goes nuts', as you say. It senses danger. It knows that what you are reading is a potential 'death sentence' -- for IT.

Have you read through the main AVRT discussion threads? They may help clarify some things for you.

RR -
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