A couple of Beastly questions
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A couple of Beastly questions
The explanation of AVRT on this forum is excellent. I was invited to ask questions when I made an earlier post so here's a couple!
The first query I have is about a comment I came across a couple of times on the forum that we should welcome the Beast as a sign that we have a healthy brain. I don't quite understand how this fits in with the idea that the Beast is a false, misdirected survival drive?
And the second is precisely how does the Big Plan bring about the I/IT split? Is it that the "never" part of the vow never to drink again provides the sharpest possible contrast by which to recognise the AV - as if it provides a whiter than white backdrop, say, in which to spot the blackness of the AV?
I would welcome any observations anyone may have. I don't feel I have to understand every subtlety of AVRT in order to feel 100% confident in using it btw - I recognise that that belief would be the AV - these are just a couple of things I'm curious about.
The first query I have is about a comment I came across a couple of times on the forum that we should welcome the Beast as a sign that we have a healthy brain. I don't quite understand how this fits in with the idea that the Beast is a false, misdirected survival drive?
And the second is precisely how does the Big Plan bring about the I/IT split? Is it that the "never" part of the vow never to drink again provides the sharpest possible contrast by which to recognise the AV - as if it provides a whiter than white backdrop, say, in which to spot the blackness of the AV?
I would welcome any observations anyone may have. I don't feel I have to understand every subtlety of AVRT in order to feel 100% confident in using it btw - I recognise that that belief would be the AV - these are just a couple of things I'm curious about.
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Originally Posted by AlericB 
The explanation of AVRT on this forum is excellent. I was invited to ask questions when I made an earlier post so here's a couple!
The first query I have is about a comment I came across a couple of times on the forum that we should welcome the Beast as a sign that we have a healthy brain. I don't quite understand how this fits in with the idea that the Beast is a false, misdirected survival drive?
The first query I have is about a comment I came across a couple of times on the forum that we should welcome the Beast as a sign that we have a healthy brain. I don't quite understand how this fits in with the idea that the Beast is a false, misdirected survival drive?
Originally Posted by AlericB
And the second is precisely how does the Big Plan bring about the I/IT split? Is it that the "never" part of the vow never to drink again provides the sharpest possible contrast by which to recognise the AV - as if it provides a whiter than white backdrop, say, in which to spot the blackness of the AV?
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Hi Aleric, I'm having trouble drafting a reply and posting, the site keeps hanging.
Please (if you haven't already) I'd suggest you read a sticky post, which is above this secular forum: entitled "AVRT Explained (long)" posted by Freshstart57, it's fifth down. I'll reply to your questions as soon as I stop losing long posts!
Please (if you haven't already) I'd suggest you read a sticky post, which is above this secular forum: entitled "AVRT Explained (long)" posted by Freshstart57, it's fifth down. I'll reply to your questions as soon as I stop losing long posts!
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Hope you haven't lost too much time Tatsy, and thanks for trying!
I have read the long post you mention and I agree, it is very instructive. The clarity of the teaching here is amazing.
I have read the long post you mention and I agree, it is very instructive. The clarity of the teaching here is amazing.
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Hi Aleric, addiction and the resultant AV, which urges, craves and seeks to compel you to drink, is the brain's normal, healthy response to alcohol. Alcohol floods the pleasure/reward centre of the brain with dopamine etc., and this gives rise eventually, to the new automatic survival drive which seeks alcohol; to make us feel better if we're stressed, lonely, bored etc., plus, to heighten an existing state of pleasure.
Naturally occurring survival drives for food etc., do not release the huge amount of pleasure/reward chemicals, so the mid-brain equates alcohol as beneficial for our well-being. This learning process becomes habitual and is then subsumed into automatic parts of the mid-brain.
We, the higher-brain, neo-cortex, know better and have the ability to use our free-will, to inhibit, over-ride and ignore our mid-brain's urges, compulsions, cravings etc., which the mid-brain automatically generates in order to attempt to compell us to ingest the substance.
By viewing those urges etc., as emanating from the automatic, illogical and incapable of reasoning mid-brain, (the 'Beast' brain which all animals possess) aids the detachment and separation from the urge, as not YOU, but IT and not to be acted upon, because you don't drink. Thus, the urge dissipates and doesn't build in strength. In time the cravings become rare, through neuro-plasticity, but that is an irrelevance, because the cravings have no power any longer; they may arise from time to time, but they are not to be feared, they're viewed as inconsequential, in AVRT.
To this effect, the Big Plan, (once made and AVRT learned and practised) automatically, effortlessly and instantly, recognises and highlights any urge, compulsion, thought suggesting a drink - as not you, but IT, to be dismissed.
Naturally occurring survival drives for food etc., do not release the huge amount of pleasure/reward chemicals, so the mid-brain equates alcohol as beneficial for our well-being. This learning process becomes habitual and is then subsumed into automatic parts of the mid-brain.
We, the higher-brain, neo-cortex, know better and have the ability to use our free-will, to inhibit, over-ride and ignore our mid-brain's urges, compulsions, cravings etc., which the mid-brain automatically generates in order to attempt to compell us to ingest the substance.
By viewing those urges etc., as emanating from the automatic, illogical and incapable of reasoning mid-brain, (the 'Beast' brain which all animals possess) aids the detachment and separation from the urge, as not YOU, but IT and not to be acted upon, because you don't drink. Thus, the urge dissipates and doesn't build in strength. In time the cravings become rare, through neuro-plasticity, but that is an irrelevance, because the cravings have no power any longer; they may arise from time to time, but they are not to be feared, they're viewed as inconsequential, in AVRT.
To this effect, the Big Plan, (once made and AVRT learned and practised) automatically, effortlessly and instantly, recognises and highlights any urge, compulsion, thought suggesting a drink - as not you, but IT, to be dismissed.
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Thanks Tatsy,
That makes a lot of sense and certainly applies to the addiction I had - I say had because I feel the ambivalence I had over drinking is over once and for all, thanks to SR and AVRT.
I wonder if the reason some people can drink but not get addicted is because they don't experience the pleasure as being quite as deep as those who do? And perhaps there's also a moral aspect to it in that we chose to pursue pleasure even though we knew it was damaging to ourselves and others?
That makes a lot of sense and certainly applies to the addiction I had - I say had because I feel the ambivalence I had over drinking is over once and for all, thanks to SR and AVRT.
I wonder if the reason some people can drink but not get addicted is because they don't experience the pleasure as being quite as deep as those who do? And perhaps there's also a moral aspect to it in that we chose to pursue pleasure even though we knew it was damaging to ourselves and others?
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I can't even count how many times my wife had asked me "Isn't that enough, you can't honestly want more" "another one?!"
When my Beast and I were simpatico , I'd internally shake my head and not understand how she didn't 'get it'. The isn't a sea deep enough to contain the pleasure of the Beast.
The 'wiring' that results in the experience of that kind of pleasure and the lengths to which one can convince themselves or become convinced that that pursuit is seemingly worthwhile may really only be understood by those who have pursued it. Nonetheless the pursuit can be halted ! Congratulations!
When my Beast and I were simpatico , I'd internally shake my head and not understand how she didn't 'get it'. The isn't a sea deep enough to contain the pleasure of the Beast.
The 'wiring' that results in the experience of that kind of pleasure and the lengths to which one can convince themselves or become convinced that that pursuit is seemingly worthwhile may really only be understood by those who have pursued it. Nonetheless the pursuit can be halted ! Congratulations!
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Yes, the pursuit ends as soon as you say "it's my Beast that wants this pleasure, not me." You're still aware of the pleasure but at the same time you know that it's not you and it has no hold on you.
I like the word "simpatico". I had to look it up and I'll do my best to use it in conversation one day!
I like the word "simpatico". I had to look it up and I'll do my best to use it in conversation one day!
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Hi Aleric, congratulations! You are awesome for stopping drinking.
Yes, I understand that alcohol activates the pleasure/reward system of all human beings brains. In addition, there's the learned, habitual response, plus the effects of the brains response to frequency and amount - the tolerance effect.
I've often pondered why I became addicted, whereas my husband didn't. He has two or three drinks, then says enough. Sometimes he'll continue drinking beyond that amount, then he'll feel so ill (low tolerance) and swear off drinking for a while.
My husband didn't hit a stressful period in his life, whereas I did, in my career. I used alcohol to de-stress and unwind. Tolerance built up (brains natural mechanism) so I needed to drink more to de-stress, ad infinitum.
But it doesn't matter why we became addicted, or how. What matters is that AVRT is a totally effective way to stop drinking. Then, once stopped, I found that anxious and depressed thoughts quickly began to evaporate, they were caused by excessive alcohol intake, it's a depressant.
I'll qualify that by saying that some people may still experience anxiety, depression etc., after stopping drinking, in which case, professional guidance should be sought.
I use 'verdant' all the time, I live in a valley and used to say 'how green is my valley' but green didn't do it justice.....now I say verdant and luscious! I love sympatico too, I've never used it, so I'll build it into a conversation tomorrow.
Yes, I understand that alcohol activates the pleasure/reward system of all human beings brains. In addition, there's the learned, habitual response, plus the effects of the brains response to frequency and amount - the tolerance effect.
I've often pondered why I became addicted, whereas my husband didn't. He has two or three drinks, then says enough. Sometimes he'll continue drinking beyond that amount, then he'll feel so ill (low tolerance) and swear off drinking for a while.
My husband didn't hit a stressful period in his life, whereas I did, in my career. I used alcohol to de-stress and unwind. Tolerance built up (brains natural mechanism) so I needed to drink more to de-stress, ad infinitum.
But it doesn't matter why we became addicted, or how. What matters is that AVRT is a totally effective way to stop drinking. Then, once stopped, I found that anxious and depressed thoughts quickly began to evaporate, they were caused by excessive alcohol intake, it's a depressant.
I'll qualify that by saying that some people may still experience anxiety, depression etc., after stopping drinking, in which case, professional guidance should be sought.
I use 'verdant' all the time, I live in a valley and used to say 'how green is my valley' but green didn't do it justice.....now I say verdant and luscious! I love sympatico too, I've never used it, so I'll build it into a conversation tomorrow.
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Originally Posted by Tatsy
Then, once stopped, I found that anxious and depressed thoughts quickly began to evaporate, they were caused by excessive alcohol intake, it's a depressant.
I'll qualify that by saying that some people may still experience anxiety, depression etc., after stopping drinking, in which case, professional guidance should be sought.
I'll qualify that by saying that some people may still experience anxiety, depression etc., after stopping drinking, in which case, professional guidance should be sought.
It may also be being caused by your AV. I'm reading the Trimpey's New Cure book at the moment and in it he gives a transcript of a consultation with a guy who felt very depressed when he stopped drinking. Trimpey brought out the fact that one day when he felt so overwhelmed by his unhappiness and decided to go to the off-licence to get some booze, his depression immediately left him to be replaced by excitement. One way to make sense of the last sentence is to replace 'his' with 'ITs'.
(I decided to remove the Fudge picture btw - I didn't want to associate her with the Beast!)
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Hi Aleric, Fudge's picture was the antithesis of the 'Beast'. I have two dogs, they have intelligence and are trainable - whereas the Beast has a one-track mind, cannot be reasoned with, trained or cajoled. That's why we simply recognise IT and dismiss IT (not attempt to reason, debate or engage with IT).
The R in AVRT is for recognition, with attendant instant 'objectification ' of the Beast, which creates the separation it's 'IT' not 'I'; which means we stay in our right mind, the neo-cortex 'self' and not the mid-brain, where IT resides.
I related to the book passage. Last summer I was attempting to taper, to ease withdrawals. I was sat in the garden reading, with the intention of taking the next 'dose' only when my hands trembled. I began to feel anxious, jittery, slightly shaky. I decided to open a can, but not drink until the symptoms became worse. But amazingly, once opened, almost immediately, my symptoms disappeared.
The R in AVRT is for recognition, with attendant instant 'objectification ' of the Beast, which creates the separation it's 'IT' not 'I'; which means we stay in our right mind, the neo-cortex 'self' and not the mid-brain, where IT resides.
I related to the book passage. Last summer I was attempting to taper, to ease withdrawals. I was sat in the garden reading, with the intention of taking the next 'dose' only when my hands trembled. I began to feel anxious, jittery, slightly shaky. I decided to open a can, but not drink until the symptoms became worse. But amazingly, once opened, almost immediately, my symptoms disappeared.
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