No Goodbye AVRT People
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
The 'going it alone' aspect I got from RR , was the aspect of self empowerment. I personally hold that every one who ever Quit, decided to achieve unconditional permanent abstinence and actualizes it , has 'gone it alone' , no matter how they got there.
Sometimes it feels like I cheated, because RR/AVRT cleaved the meat from the bone and I just picked it up( and put it down)
The Master : Grasshopper , what is troubling you ?
Grasshopper: I was feeling pride in all I've learned in these years after coming here , but shameful when I realize what I know was taught and not mine to have pride in
The Master: Grasshopper you came here, you learned those things, without that, those things would not be, so goodonya kid, hiiiiyyyaa
Sometimes it feels like I cheated, because RR/AVRT cleaved the meat from the bone and I just picked it up( and put it down)
The Master : Grasshopper , what is troubling you ?
Grasshopper: I was feeling pride in all I've learned in these years after coming here , but shameful when I realize what I know was taught and not mine to have pride in
The Master: Grasshopper you came here, you learned those things, without that, those things would not be, so goodonya kid, hiiiiyyyaa
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 780
Im sorry you got attacked out in the wild west of the rest of the forum. While I understand RR is a go solo thing, I have learned so much here in this part of the forum. Form what book to read, to identifying the AV. I only post in here now, when I actually post. I look at this more of a help/information group, then a sobriety/support group. Its where i get knowledge and information, not were I get sober.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by MesaMan 
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GaryB1 ~
I'd like to toss out a few more reasons to stick around here. I read here much more than I post anymore because I'm out living Sober and Recovered. RV Trailer Camping and taking pictures, especially...
The Forum 'Experience', that you're undergoing, is something that initially didn't suit me, either. In fact, I Bookmarked a Website on Logical Errors, and would occasionally post a link to a germane example so that flat-out distortions didn't go unchallenged. 'Tell a lie often enough, and it becomes the Truth', eh? The ole Numbers Game distortion: a Program must be 'the best' because it has so many Adherents. I'm thinking to myself: 'Hey, Folks, we're not choosing a Hamburger Chain here. We're settling in on the optimum Recovery Program for Individuals'. If a particular 'Leading' Hamburger doesn't suit me, I could not care less how many Folks swear 'it's the best'. Further, I couldn't support this sort of trivializing re: Life/Death Recovery Programs whereby you pick one like it's some Popularity Contest in High School. My formerly-sotted Brain still works fine, and is my most important Resource. It still provides Critical Thinking Skills to choose the 'best' Recovery Program. For me.
1+ Year in for me [early 2015], my Issues became Social Setting-based. Because I live with an Active Pot & Alcohol Addict, there was initial pressure to 'have fun' at Dinners where everyone else was Drinking. Well, to quote a Bumper Sticker from Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream: 'If It's Not Fun, Why Do It?' That became my Mantra, and I gingerly set down increasingly-firm Boundaries in this ~40 Year Marriage. These emerging Boundaries were based on poor Social Setting experiences. My Wife can go alone and Drink, or can abstain with me in tow. I need a supportive Partner IF I'm to endure sloshy Drunks for any time. We leave when I've had enough. Period. I'm not trying to change her. I'm busy changing me. Serenity First.
'Sobriety Is Not For Sissies', as I like to say. We all have to get on in a Drinking Culture. Dinners. Sports Events. Concerts. We've each got to find our own Coping Strategies without feeling as if we sold ourselves out; Teeth grinding away. I realized that the Model for getting what I could out of 'Net Forums was a larger parallel - a Rehearsal, if you will - to living Sober in a Drinking Culture. And, I'm an experienced Moderator on 4 other Forum/Social Media Pages. I had to adapt to being a Recovered Person via RR/AVRT which is also a 'Minority' Program vis-a-vis more 'popular' Programs. My own Conclusion? Detach, and get used to being an 'Outsider'. In a Drinking Culture and in on-line settings. It's like a double whammy that I initially didn't see coming. I thought that 'just' living Sober in a Drinking Culture was all there was to master. Nope. I also had to adapt to Sober Culture.
My main point for you [and Tatsy] is to consider using the Forum Experience as a sort of Boot Camp Training for Sober Life going forward. We right here are all 'Minority' Sober People using a 'Minority' Recovery Method. I don't know of any way to speed up this Process. You just have to slog through it, and skip the GroupThink IF there's no Truth in it for you.
Through Insights from a smart Pal who used to train on 'People Types' at a huge Telecom Company, I learned we Introverts recharge when we're quiet and thinking. Being in Crowd settings, or forced 'Sharing', can be draining. Square Peg -> meet Round Hole. We are not something 'deficient' or 'outside the mainstream' to be changed via being forced into uncomfortable Meetings. THAT could lead to Relapse [for me] early on far more than me going about just being my good ole Introverted Self. This Self-Realization was huge for me, and I was already several Years into RR and serenely Recovered by the time my Pal shared this with me.
Now, I just chuckle at the assertion that Programs like RR are 'going it alone'. I've wondered if a Member putting forth this non-Truth realized the irony of asserting this on this Forum with more Members and valued Experiences than could EVER fit into any Meeting Room? I connect daily with Folks here via on-line methods that work for this Introvert. Why on Earth would I care about other methods that don't work for me, or increase my Stress Level [or, dreaded Boredom while rehashing Drunk-a-Logs]? On-line Meetings are another option, of course, for those of us on the move.
Choose and refine your Recovery Path for you, my Friend: the only Sober Person that matters.
.
GaryB1 ~
I'd like to toss out a few more reasons to stick around here. I read here much more than I post anymore because I'm out living Sober and Recovered. RV Trailer Camping and taking pictures, especially...
The Forum 'Experience', that you're undergoing, is something that initially didn't suit me, either. In fact, I Bookmarked a Website on Logical Errors, and would occasionally post a link to a germane example so that flat-out distortions didn't go unchallenged. 'Tell a lie often enough, and it becomes the Truth', eh? The ole Numbers Game distortion: a Program must be 'the best' because it has so many Adherents. I'm thinking to myself: 'Hey, Folks, we're not choosing a Hamburger Chain here. We're settling in on the optimum Recovery Program for Individuals'. If a particular 'Leading' Hamburger doesn't suit me, I could not care less how many Folks swear 'it's the best'. Further, I couldn't support this sort of trivializing re: Life/Death Recovery Programs whereby you pick one like it's some Popularity Contest in High School. My formerly-sotted Brain still works fine, and is my most important Resource. It still provides Critical Thinking Skills to choose the 'best' Recovery Program. For me.
1+ Year in for me [early 2015], my Issues became Social Setting-based. Because I live with an Active Pot & Alcohol Addict, there was initial pressure to 'have fun' at Dinners where everyone else was Drinking. Well, to quote a Bumper Sticker from Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream: 'If It's Not Fun, Why Do It?' That became my Mantra, and I gingerly set down increasingly-firm Boundaries in this ~40 Year Marriage. These emerging Boundaries were based on poor Social Setting experiences. My Wife can go alone and Drink, or can abstain with me in tow. I need a supportive Partner IF I'm to endure sloshy Drunks for any time. We leave when I've had enough. Period. I'm not trying to change her. I'm busy changing me. Serenity First.
'Sobriety Is Not For Sissies', as I like to say. We all have to get on in a Drinking Culture. Dinners. Sports Events. Concerts. We've each got to find our own Coping Strategies without feeling as if we sold ourselves out; Teeth grinding away. I realized that the Model for getting what I could out of 'Net Forums was a larger parallel - a Rehearsal, if you will - to living Sober in a Drinking Culture. And, I'm an experienced Moderator on 4 other Forum/Social Media Pages. I had to adapt to being a Recovered Person via RR/AVRT which is also a 'Minority' Program vis-a-vis more 'popular' Programs. My own Conclusion? Detach, and get used to being an 'Outsider'. In a Drinking Culture and in on-line settings. It's like a double whammy that I initially didn't see coming. I thought that 'just' living Sober in a Drinking Culture was all there was to master. Nope. I also had to adapt to Sober Culture.
My main point for you [and Tatsy] is to consider using the Forum Experience as a sort of Boot Camp Training for Sober Life going forward. We right here are all 'Minority' Sober People using a 'Minority' Recovery Method. I don't know of any way to speed up this Process. You just have to slog through it, and skip the GroupThink IF there's no Truth in it for you.
Through Insights from a smart Pal who used to train on 'People Types' at a huge Telecom Company, I learned we Introverts recharge when we're quiet and thinking. Being in Crowd settings, or forced 'Sharing', can be draining. Square Peg -> meet Round Hole. We are not something 'deficient' or 'outside the mainstream' to be changed via being forced into uncomfortable Meetings. THAT could lead to Relapse [for me] early on far more than me going about just being my good ole Introverted Self. This Self-Realization was huge for me, and I was already several Years into RR and serenely Recovered by the time my Pal shared this with me.
Now, I just chuckle at the assertion that Programs like RR are 'going it alone'. I've wondered if a Member putting forth this non-Truth realized the irony of asserting this on this Forum with more Members and valued Experiences than could EVER fit into any Meeting Room? I connect daily with Folks here via on-line methods that work for this Introvert. Why on Earth would I care about other methods that don't work for me, or increase my Stress Level [or, dreaded Boredom while rehashing Drunk-a-Logs]? On-line Meetings are another option, of course, for those of us on the move.
Choose and refine your Recovery Path for you, my Friend: the only Sober Person that matters.
.
I am also an extrovert, not an introvert. That isn't my problem with "meetings"
I agree with some things you say, not so much with others
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
If there is one thing I have learned in sobriety it is that we always have to remain teachable. People that have long term sobriety know how to stay sober and have accomplished something very few can equal. The reason I am sober today is I learned to listen and listened to learn. There is nothing off the table as far as I'm concerned.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by MIRecovery
I People that have long term sobriety know how to stay sober and have accomplished something very few can equal.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 98
Yes dwbtd that is the sad question, if more people saw that it's not a super human feat to be "one of them" then even more people would be.
Yes, MIR I am someone who will not drink again..ever..and never change their minds, ever since I found AVRT and made my Big Plan. I do not think it is anything special to stop doing something that I chose to do, that hurt everyone around me and myself.
The majority of people you see in ANY public forum (whether it be online or in real life) are people who are struggling to do what they know is right. The many many people who just got on with it, stuck to their guns and have never drank again, are almost invisible in the public forums, therefore struggle, failure and it seeming an almost impossible task sets a lot of peoples mindset to this being inevitable.
Yes, MIR I am someone who will not drink again..ever..and never change their minds, ever since I found AVRT and made my Big Plan. I do not think it is anything special to stop doing something that I chose to do, that hurt everyone around me and myself.
The majority of people you see in ANY public forum (whether it be online or in real life) are people who are struggling to do what they know is right. The many many people who just got on with it, stuck to their guns and have never drank again, are almost invisible in the public forums, therefore struggle, failure and it seeming an almost impossible task sets a lot of peoples mindset to this being inevitable.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by GaryB1
and it seeming an almost impossible task sets a lot of peoples mindset to this being inevitable.
The vast majority of people having done it alone, relying on themselves, tend to be "invisible." Just living their lives
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
I just recently had a conversation with my sister about this topic. She has MS and the doctors want to up her treatment and I suggested she join a forum to ask others about their experiences with these drugs (I knew she wouldn't go to a support group) and she quickly said NO. She said that people on forums are only there to whine and feel sorry for themselves and that she refuses to be part of that club. She said she won't allow herself to envision herself sick. I said they can also be a source of information and she could only use it for that and then stop once she learned what she wanted to know. Lately I've been wondering why I'm still hanging around here now that I've quit for good and I'm applying what I came on here to learn about. Maybe it's time for me to follow my own advice and just carry on in my life the way my sister does. Just decide to envision myself healthy and well, which I am. All I did was stop poisoning myself, it's really not some huge dramatic feat. So what? It's perfectly normal to not self intoxicate.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Yes, I fell hook, line and sinker, for the 'truism' that I was powerless to stop drinking. That misbelief led me deeper into an addiction spiral. It was only when I was shown an alternative viewpoint, that I wasn't powerless and could reclaim my power of choice, that I took the necessary action to root out and utilise that power.
It is such a liberation, no more tyrannical AV, it's reduced to a,pathetic whimper, when it, rarely, suggests a drink, even if it was constant, it's inconsequential, just a random thought or feeling, which I disregard.
The sad thing is, that once free, most folks don't look backwards, let alone hang around to help newcomers. So the method doesn't spread as effective, through the grapevine.
Yet, there are lots of folks who haven't gained freedom, who, as part of their not drinking package, are required to 'spread the word', through the grapevine; they 'have to give it away to keep it' and as I read recently, ' sobriety is not owned, it's leased and rent is due daily' - sounds a pretty burdensome and fragile position, to me. Why not choose freedom, instead?
It is such a liberation, no more tyrannical AV, it's reduced to a,pathetic whimper, when it, rarely, suggests a drink, even if it was constant, it's inconsequential, just a random thought or feeling, which I disregard.
The sad thing is, that once free, most folks don't look backwards, let alone hang around to help newcomers. So the method doesn't spread as effective, through the grapevine.
Yet, there are lots of folks who haven't gained freedom, who, as part of their not drinking package, are required to 'spread the word', through the grapevine; they 'have to give it away to keep it' and as I read recently, ' sobriety is not owned, it's leased and rent is due daily' - sounds a pretty burdensome and fragile position, to me. Why not choose freedom, instead?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
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I'd like to riff off some of the Observations above...
A few Years ago, I realized how many also-Sober Folks were just out in the World, doin' it. Living Sober. I might have chatted up some Friends at our local Dog Park for 6 Months or a Year, and the Convo would unexpectedly turn to Sobriety. Unlike other, tethered Lifestyles that don't interest me, these Recovered Folks were 'free to roam about the Cabin of Sobriety', so to speak. I wanted [and had, via RR] the Free Range Sobriety they had. Once the RR Big Plan is made, the rest is fleshing out the Operational Details to live by. Dealing with sotted Wedding Receptions. A: Drive separately.
These Sober Folks are everywhere, but not typically around 'Net Forums to tap Wisdom from. Once met, however, they change the false Illusion of permanently-Sobered-up Folks being 'rare'. They change the Sample Population of Sobered-up Folks to what it actually is: large; often Self-Recovered; and quite widespread. If you reach out, and meet them with open Eyes and Ears.
I've engaged 2 new Acquaintances just this past Week at our local Dog Park. One good Gal Pal has a 20 Year-old Daughter hitting it really hard for her age. The Daughter had spent all Morning puking after a Night at the Bars with yet another 30-something Male. I felt good about passing along some of the Wisdom gained here at SR, and putting some Perspective on her challenges ahead; unique to this Rural Colorado setting. I helped. But, my way...
This Introvert is wired for this sort of informal 'Payback'. Lawd knows there's plenty of opportunities for Payback around this hard-drinking area. A Waitress Pal; a Handyman I employ [met at the Dog Park]; and the Gent who did the Stamped Concrete Patio seen in a Pic below are all working off DUIs: ~$10,000 Events in their Lives. After all the Fines. Mandatory, random Urine Tests. Mandatory Classes. Attorney Fees. As one can see below, there's no Buses or Taxis around here to transport Folks to Mandatory Classes.
Given Recovery Industry biases, I'll mention this pre-emptively. RR and Self-Recovery are not Recovery Methods one 'has to settle for', due to the lack-of-Transportation to Meetings around here. They are formalized, continuously-improved Methods that utilize prior Centuries of Self-Recovery.
freshstart57 used to post a Link to a rigorous Government Study that concluded what I and others know from the World-At-Large: something like ~2/3rds of Folks sober up without any Formal Program.
For me anyway, permanently comporting my Sobriety around with me internally - vs. relying on external Forces or People - is the only Sobriety I ever wanted. One that works flawlessly no matter what remote area I might be Trailer Camping at, or which area I live in.
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I'd like to riff off some of the Observations above...
A few Years ago, I realized how many also-Sober Folks were just out in the World, doin' it. Living Sober. I might have chatted up some Friends at our local Dog Park for 6 Months or a Year, and the Convo would unexpectedly turn to Sobriety. Unlike other, tethered Lifestyles that don't interest me, these Recovered Folks were 'free to roam about the Cabin of Sobriety', so to speak. I wanted [and had, via RR] the Free Range Sobriety they had. Once the RR Big Plan is made, the rest is fleshing out the Operational Details to live by. Dealing with sotted Wedding Receptions. A: Drive separately.
These Sober Folks are everywhere, but not typically around 'Net Forums to tap Wisdom from. Once met, however, they change the false Illusion of permanently-Sobered-up Folks being 'rare'. They change the Sample Population of Sobered-up Folks to what it actually is: large; often Self-Recovered; and quite widespread. If you reach out, and meet them with open Eyes and Ears.
I've engaged 2 new Acquaintances just this past Week at our local Dog Park. One good Gal Pal has a 20 Year-old Daughter hitting it really hard for her age. The Daughter had spent all Morning puking after a Night at the Bars with yet another 30-something Male. I felt good about passing along some of the Wisdom gained here at SR, and putting some Perspective on her challenges ahead; unique to this Rural Colorado setting. I helped. But, my way...
This Introvert is wired for this sort of informal 'Payback'. Lawd knows there's plenty of opportunities for Payback around this hard-drinking area. A Waitress Pal; a Handyman I employ [met at the Dog Park]; and the Gent who did the Stamped Concrete Patio seen in a Pic below are all working off DUIs: ~$10,000 Events in their Lives. After all the Fines. Mandatory, random Urine Tests. Mandatory Classes. Attorney Fees. As one can see below, there's no Buses or Taxis around here to transport Folks to Mandatory Classes.
Given Recovery Industry biases, I'll mention this pre-emptively. RR and Self-Recovery are not Recovery Methods one 'has to settle for', due to the lack-of-Transportation to Meetings around here. They are formalized, continuously-improved Methods that utilize prior Centuries of Self-Recovery.
freshstart57 used to post a Link to a rigorous Government Study that concluded what I and others know from the World-At-Large: something like ~2/3rds of Folks sober up without any Formal Program.
For me anyway, permanently comporting my Sobriety around with me internally - vs. relying on external Forces or People - is the only Sobriety I ever wanted. One that works flawlessly no matter what remote area I might be Trailer Camping at, or which area I live in.
.
.
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 242
Glad you are sticking around GaryB1. I am one of those people that used what I learned on this forum and advice from the beautiful people here to stop drinking forever. I don't post often, but I still come and read and try to offer support every now and then. I would be sad to lose a good one who gives solid advice to people.
Not to regress, but what is "Integrating the Reptile"? lt sounds painful.
Not to regress, but what is "Integrating the Reptile"? lt sounds painful.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Hi AlaskaGirl, I'm so very pleased to hear that you're soundly on the stopping forever path! It's difficult, down here in Secular Conections (although the irony is, that AVRT works for those who believe in a religion/spiritualism) to keep up with folks, because, by its very nature, self-recovery is insular.
MesaMan, I adore your posts, and I'm so glad you stuck around these parts of the forum. I'll never forget your posts on my original thread and that photograph of the place in the Isle of Skye, really sunk home for me, how far I'd strayed from what 'I' wanted. It struck such a chord and I'm forever grateful to you MesaMan!
MesaMan, I adore your posts, and I'm so glad you stuck around these parts of the forum. I'll never forget your posts on my original thread and that photograph of the place in the Isle of Skye, really sunk home for me, how far I'd strayed from what 'I' wanted. It struck such a chord and I'm forever grateful to you MesaMan!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by AlaskaGirl
Not to regress, but what is "Integrating the Reptile"? lt sounds painful.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
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AANNNNDDD, thank you for the kind words & inspiration, Tatsy.
You mentioned recently how some Folks here wander off to live Sober. That would be me! Your thoughts inspired me to get off my Retired Boo_tay, and talk some about Life Over The [Sober] Rainbow. I thank you!
Since I'm the Polar Opposite of ODAAT, perhaps a new Acronym is in order: OLAAT -> One Life At A Time. Cuz that's how long I'm now effortlessly Sober for. Thanks to freshstart57 for his mentoring here of me and others early on. He made me aware of the RR Slides on line. I read them, and the rest, shall we say, is Sober History. I was ready to quit, and that abbreviated version was all it took to put structure around my permanent Quit Decision.
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AANNNNDDD, thank you for the kind words & inspiration, Tatsy.
You mentioned recently how some Folks here wander off to live Sober. That would be me! Your thoughts inspired me to get off my Retired Boo_tay, and talk some about Life Over The [Sober] Rainbow. I thank you!
Since I'm the Polar Opposite of ODAAT, perhaps a new Acronym is in order: OLAAT -> One Life At A Time. Cuz that's how long I'm now effortlessly Sober for. Thanks to freshstart57 for his mentoring here of me and others early on. He made me aware of the RR Slides on line. I read them, and the rest, shall we say, is Sober History. I was ready to quit, and that abbreviated version was all it took to put structure around my permanent Quit Decision.
.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by AlaskaGirl
Tatsy, I adore you.
JefferyAK, I sincerely hope that my flippant comment didn't offend. I meant no harm. I apologize. Are you from Alaska?
JefferyAK, I sincerely hope that my flippant comment didn't offend. I meant no harm. I apologize. Are you from Alaska?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 98
[QUOTE=JeffreyAK;6435576]Hopefully he's not referring to the former title of my post here, http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-my-story.html That would be unforgivably rude, since he - like everyone else on this site - is free to read or not read anything on it, and take what he can use and leave the rest. If he is, perhaps someday he'll find wisdom of his own.[/QUOTE
What can I say? I am an unforgivably rude person!!
Anyone posting anything on a public forum is open to anyone commenting and giving their opinions on what they wrote..you, I and everyone here knows that.
Thank you, I too hope someday I'll find wisdom of my own, I'm sure I had some once, I may have left it in my other jacket pocket..I'll have a look
I commented on a post you once wrote..it's my opinion, what does my opinion matter if that's what you believe? It is not a personal attack.
What can I say? I am an unforgivably rude person!!
Anyone posting anything on a public forum is open to anyone commenting and giving their opinions on what they wrote..you, I and everyone here knows that.
Thank you, I too hope someday I'll find wisdom of my own, I'm sure I had some once, I may have left it in my other jacket pocket..I'll have a look
I commented on a post you once wrote..it's my opinion, what does my opinion matter if that's what you believe? It is not a personal attack.
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