Wholesome

Or is IT with you for life once IT's been created? Given that, with time the brain can rewire itself through neuroplasticity I wonder if once those old addiction wires shrivel up through disuse maybe the AV can go with them? For example, I used to use drugs but I never think about going out and scoring anymore, not for many years. Or it that just because my AV moved on to drinking? Sort of like how now I'm beginning to wonder if I'm getting a sugar addiction. Will that part of me always be looking for something new to get addicted to?

stargazer016

Unfortunately, the neural pathways created through alcoholic drinking remain forever, waiting to be activated by alcohol once again. I have read many stories here on SR of folks who had long term sobriety and relapsed for a long while after just one drink.

The good news is that we are constantly creating new neural pathways as we learn better, productive ways to live without alcohol.

PhoenixJ

For me- NO! Just the thought of such lurking there is a good red flag.

dwtbd

In AVRT the IT ( Beast) is the desire for alcohol( or substitute any substance or action) and once born will always remain. The AV is the bark of the Beast and listening to it is the cause of addiction.
Recognizing , separating from and dismissing the AV ends the addiction. The desire itself, the Beast, will always exist, but a mere desire can't ' cause ' an addiction. Indulging the desire , acting on the AV is the cause of addiction. Permanent abstinence from alcohol consumption is the solution to ending an addiction to alcohol.
AVRT can be used for ending any ( and all ) addictions. Make a separate BP for any other substance/behavior , create the recognition and separation from that desire and 'hear' Its bark and dismiss those thoughts.
'An addiction' is a specific [I]thing[/I,] a discrete state of being of an individual and their actions involving a specific substance or behavior. The abstraction "addiction" isn't a thing that floats around and can attach itself to individuals and manifest itself. "IT" isn't 'out there doing pushups ' waiting to bounce on the desire for chocolate or sitcoms.
Sometimes I sorta wish it were though, given that I was addicted to alcohol in the past, I'd wish I could wake up one morning 'addicted' to working out and be that 50 ish IronMan triathlete they write articles about

Wholesome

I guess what I was wondering about was whether the addictive voice that I've given myself can manifest itself in other ways leaving me to play a game of whack a mole (after my beast has done IT's push-ups of course). I knock it down in one area to have it pop up in another. But it makes perfect sense that I can simply make another BP if I find that to be the case.

I guess it was kind of a silly hope that the AV would ever completely go away. I've read before that the human body has completely recreated itself every 7 years so I was thinking that if you can get to a point where none of your cells have ever been exposed to alcohol then maybe by then your AV would stop existing. I think that I think too much and overcomplicate things.

Thanks for the replies.

SoberLeigh

Mine has not gone away, even after 5+ plus years, but it rears its ugly head far, far, far less often and it is very easily crushed.

Fusion

Hi Zen, from what I've researched, the habituated neural pathways which gave birth to the Booze Beast and ITs AV is entirely separate from the neural pathways generated by any other addiction/habit. For instance gambling, drugs, binge-eating, over-excercising, smoking each have separate neural pathways.

The Booze Beast and ITs AV don't switch to and run another addiction/habit, because the neural-wiring supports alcohol only as ITs focus. If another pre-existing or new addiction/habit arise, then yes you could make a separate BP for the different type of addiction.

For instance, many folks who stop drinking, follow the standard advice to ensure they don't become hungry and end up over-eating on the advised ice cream and chocolate etc., thereby if they continue longer term, a new addiction/habit and new neural pathways (entirely separate from the alcohol one) will be born - for which a separate BP maybe made for the 'Sweet-toothed Binging Beast'' and ITs squealing AV, for excessive sweet food.

The neural pathways do become overgrown due to non-usage/feedback from you (refusing to pick up a drink) and in my experience, the Booze Beast's AV lessens enormously as the months roll out in my new alcohol-free life and, when the AV pops up, it's easily dismissed and ignored.

I prefer to think in terms of dismissing/ignoring, because whacking/crushing sound too combatative, much like a fight/contest, when there isn't one: you've already nested the Beast and won, once you made your BP and continued to recognise, separate from and dismiss the Beast's AV.

dwtbd

squelch has a nice ring to it , eh ?

Wholesome

Thanks Tatsy that was really helpful! That was my worry since I've been addicted to more than one substance that IT could latch on to a new unhealthy behaviour. The worry itself is AV because it is undermining my confidence. I actually almost never think about drinking, a few moments here and there, but nothing overwhelming. It feels almost too easy.

soberlicious

Bingo.

I agree with Tatsy that the Beast doesn't shift It's focus to something else. The idea that I have an "addictive personality", that I am flawed and doomed to become hopelessly addicted to everything that brings me pleasure - well I would dismiss that as AV for sure. The idea that my "personality" is somehow responsible for my poor choices... yeah, no.

I know that one of our members, Gerandtwine, made a BP for sweets. Trimpey wrote Taming the Feast Beast, but I haven't read it. I'm assuming it's AVRT for over-eating.

I've applied the recognition/separation technique to other problematic behaviors I've had and it's very helpful. I know that being a non-drinker certainly allows for clearer thinking overall for me.

mecanix

Not had a peep out of it for over 5 years .

I have no desire for it , dig it out root and branch . I come here and stick my nose in the stench of others active addiction to be sure it stays dead .

I no longer ask myself any questions about alcohol, i no longer, never did I ask myself questions about paraffin , i no longer ask myself or puzzle over whats 2+2 .
Once you answer a question satisfactorily the question goes away .

Most people don't like the answer to their questions so they go through all kinds of bizarre logic and denial and carry their questions round like a suffering , a penance , comparing them with other peoples questions and commiserating with each other, making songs and pretty poems over how they don't have any answers to the burden , how they don't like the answers, how painful it all is .

I got better things to do with my time than comparing questions that have gone away to which i have already found out a satisfactory answer ..

m

Wholesome

Yeah addictive personality is another label that I'm going to reject.

mecanix

Be careful Zen ,
i might be uniquely lucky here as i have no personality

Wholesome

Mecanix I was referring to the post by soberlicious about addictive personality. I should have quoted her to avoid confusion.

shockozulu

I'm hitting five years and for me, its gone. I still keep an eye out for it though to be safe as my family has a strong genetic addiction/alcoholic component. I don't believe in an actual alcoholic gene, but I do believe there is a combination of personality traits such as lack of inhibition that combine to make one more likely to use and drink. Even SMART Recovery is no longer against this model, the more we learn about the brain.

Does that make me an addict for life? No. It simply means I have a disposition to overindulge in many behaviors whether its drinking or buying books (which reminds me I want to buy Lawrence Wright's newest book lol)

Wholesome

OMG I am a book hoarder too!

Yeah I believe that IT will eventually go away. My desire to use drugs is long gone, I never think about doing them anymore (I quit drugs in 2007) so there is no reason not to expect the same outcome with drinking. It may take a bit longer simply because drinking is so available and commonplace whereas drugs require work to access. Already at 2 months, sober has become my new normal and my AV is an occasional annoyance.

soberlicious

I rarely if ever have AV. Although, the truth might be closer to this: I probably have AV, but the Big Plan overrides and those thoughts/feelings never come into my consciousness. Sort of like when I block unwanted people on FaceBook. They still try to send messages, but I don't get them. They don't even appear for me to open them.

For me, I am comfortable with the fact that the Beast is so atrophied that it rarely makes itself known. I am also comfortable with the fact that it could begin screaming again through the AV, but it wouldn't matter either way. The answer will always be No.

I have engaged in harmful behaviors surrounding my sexuality, which I won't go into here except to say that I don't view it as in any way tied to my addiction to alcohol/benzos. The height of my engagement in those compulsive behaviors was after I became abstinent from alcohol, and those behaviors never suggested more drinking. They were, however, interfering with the life I wanted to live, so I dealt with them in the same ways as my previous addiction.

As humans, it may seem that we playing a game of whack-a-mole in our quest to have the best lives we can have, but I prefer to look at it more like weeding a garden. It's not because of one weed that we have another weed, weeds simply grow because that's their job. They are not bad, evil, or all stemming from one giant weed. They just are. Some of them aren't harmful, and I can leave them as they don't threaten the beauty of my garden, but others I can take care of as they come up.

BrendaChenowyth

Everyone has it. Addictive thought patterns aren't exclusive to abusers of illicit substances. Everyone has their own mechanisms by which they try to control their external environment to produce a preferred internal feeling or state. If I do this, I will feel better.

I will always have an AV and alcohol will always be it's favorite thing.

aasharon90

"Unfortunately, the neural pathways created through
alcoholic drinking remain forever, waiting to be activated
by alcohol once again. I have read many stories here on
SR of folks who had long term sobriety and relapsed for
a long while after just one drink.

The good news is that we are constantly creating
new neural pathways as we learn better, productive
ways to live without alcohol. "
__________________

Thank you for this post from way up top
as another important reminder to me that
alcohol hasn't changed and living with an
on going recovery program will help me
remain sober one more day.

Wholesome

Hi Brenda!

I agree that everyone has their thing, their thought patterns that they can get locked into. I've met people who are addicted to being miserable or angry, no matter what the situation is they will find something to complain about. Some people it's shopping and image. Some people it's food and sugar. Some people it's sex. For us it's alcohol.

I like soberlicious' analogy about weeding a garden. When you find that a behaviour isn't serving you anymore and causing harm to your life it's best to weed it out and plant a new healthier seed to nurture and grow.