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Why isn't LifeRing, RR, SMART etc "taught" more in rehab centers?



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Why isn't LifeRing, RR, SMART etc "taught" more in rehab centers?

Old 05-22-2015, 03:14 AM
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Why isn't LifeRing, RR, SMART etc "taught" more in rehab centers?

Or by addiction specialists, dr's etc?

I genuinely feel if these methods were available And given as much attention as...other methods... that are already well established in the community, it could save lives.

I kind of took a bit from each of these methods but ultimately I stayed down in my rut because I kept hearing I needed to do things a "certain way"

Is it possible that these methods could pick up steamin rehab centers? Why haven't they? Why are these not introduced in detox centers and rehabilitation centers?
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Old 05-22-2015, 03:27 AM
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Old 05-22-2015, 04:24 AM
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"Inside Rehab" by Anne Fletcher is a great book that looks into this issue and others surrounding rehab..
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Old 05-22-2015, 04:27 AM
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12 step recovery has a long history and been prevalent in these facilities for decades. A lot of staff are in recovery and ideas just get passed down over the years. It will take some time. They are mostly repeating what was said to them. Many of us have found that wanting but yes, all my alternate method research was on the net. I found LifeRing first, then SMART and finally AVRT here just last year. Heck, AA Agnostica and a facebook group, Atheists and Agnostics in AA are growing by leaps and bounds. The net has changed the game but getting THAT into the centers would take a promoter like Bill or sumpin. No really-we need folks who have used other methods to be in the centers is all.
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Old 05-22-2015, 04:45 AM
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Someone with a little time could contact every secular group, present the Idea of a compiled presentation, put together something nice (maybe real people speaking) and E-mail every center in the world repeatedly. The problem would be having a central voice for all our splintered groups. Would also have to be presented as not ANTI-AA. That would be tricky as every one of these group's antithesis IS AA. Ideally we should be able to co-exist but this one needs a good bellwether. You up for it Weave?
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:38 AM
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Where I went for inpatient treatment, elements of CBT were taught (SMART), the lizard-brain concept was discussed (RR), and LifeRing meetings were available next to AA meetings (but neither were required, just recommended). So some of the concepts were there, but from a medical/psychological perspective that predates Smart and RR (LifeRing really has no program but is instead a sort of philosophy). The place I went before that was much more 12-step based, so it depends where you go.

But yes, I think the main obstacle to greater acceptance of secular approaches in rehabs is the fact that most of the staff are former addicts who went through 12-step programs and don't look outside that box. It might take another generation, but it is getting traction.
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Old 05-22-2015, 09:46 AM
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"Inside rehab" touches upon this. There is a lot of money to gain in a recovery method that says the only way their program doesnt work Is if the the participant is at fault, not the program itself.
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Old 05-22-2015, 12:24 PM
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Rehabs are big business and they have been developed around methods of 12 step facilitation for decades. A lot of the rehabs are only now being forced to offer evidence based treatments like CBT and having clients spend more time working with licensed therapists because this type of treatment is being mandated by insurance companies following the lead of health officials who say these behavioral treatments work best. Support groups are considered an add on to professional treatment, but many rehabs are still stuck on this being THE treatment. Its all they know and are trained for. I know Smart is being offered as an alternative for support in lots of rehabs now. Its growing but I think its because of efforts to get it out there and present it as an alternative. But people also have to begin demanding these options or say no to the facility. My inlaws spent a lot of time picking out my husbands rehab to make sure he was getting what would fit him best, and went with one didnt use the AA model. But you know I was so upset at the time he needed inpatient, my husband was hospitalized, and not sure alone I could have weeded through the choices and thought long term what was best and I think this is what it comes down to also. Initial treatment might be an emergency but long term its hard to stop and say what will work best and how do I want to live my life, whats available and where can I find it.
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Old 05-22-2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by greens View Post
"Inside rehab" touches upon this. There is a lot of money to gain in a recovery method that says the only way their program doesnt work Is if the the participant is at fault, not the program itself.
Inside Rehab is a good book. Clean by David Scheff is also a good one.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:32 PM
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Good question,

There is a lot to this, as has been suggested by others. Perhaps we should also consider the foundations or principles of the main themes (usually spiritual and 12 step) in rehab, the messages of the Secular programs are not easily re-interpreted through traditional recovery methods and visa versa. In fact much of the drive behind Secular methods is a underlying push against the powerless, higher power, surrender ideas. To be taught methods that in many ways oppose each other would cause immense confusion. I hope one day there will be actual Secular recovery centers open up, with good doctors and science backing up the program. Perhaps at the end of the day we don't really need inpatient rehabs, there maybe some arguments that the institutional system as it exists now is actually part of the problem not the solution.
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:42 PM
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I agree with previous postings that many counselors in rehab push AA because that is all they know, but even for counselors that know of alternate approaches to sobriety, it is hard to for them to recommend other approaches for support once clients get out of rehab, because the infrastructure for anything other than AA is pretty thin on the ground, or at least it is in my neck of the woods. During my stays in our local rehab establishment (which also served as a medium-term rehab while clients waited for longer term rehab), there was lots of encouragement (actually, overt pressure) on clients to join AA so they would have a support group to attend once they got back into the real world. Some counselors more or less suggested that clients should not worry too much about the religious/spiritual side of A, or working the steps. but suggested that AA could be considered to be more of a social club of people who don't drink.

This makes sense, since most of the clients normally socialised with other drinkers/drug takers, and needed to develop new social circles. I knew some clients that joined AA solely to meet other sober people, and had no intention of seeking a higher power, or working the steps.

Last edited by MrPoutine; 05-24-2015 at 02:46 PM. Reason: removed redundancies
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MrPoutine View Post
I agree with previous postings that many counselors in rehab push AA because that is all they know, but even for counselors that know of alternate approaches to sobriety, it is hard to for them to recommend other approaches for support once clients get out of rehab, because the infrastructure for anything other than AA is pretty thin on the ground, or at least it is in my neck of the woods. During my stays in our local rehab establishment (which also served as a medium-term rehab while clients waited for longer term rehab), there was lots of encouragement (actually, overt pressure) on clients to join AA so they would have a support group to attend once they got back into the real world. Some counselors more or less suggested that clients should not worry too much about the religious/spiritual side of A, or working the steps. but suggested that AA could be considered to be more of a social club of people who don't drink.

This makes sense, since most of the clients normally socialised with other drinkers/drug takers, and needed to develop new social circles. I knew some clients that joined AA solely to meet other sober people, and had no intention of seeking a higher power, or working the steps.
This is interestimg MrPoutine. I like to read research studies, and there are many being done on the components of the AA program that support what the therapist said about socialization factor. There are some studies showing its the socialization that is the main benefit to the program and it didnt matter if people worked the steps or the other parts. I think its through SAMHSA where the studies can be found, so for me it supports the idea any type of environment where one can interact and be directed towards a healthy lifestyle is probably key in allowing new habits and patterns to develop over time, plus the formation of a new social group.

When you think of it there's lots of social groups in the world, but the trick is to find ones that dont fall back on drinking for example as part of the social process. Some may laugh but my husband has taken up golfing with his friends and they go on a regular basis. He says its very relaxing, has a free feeling, also challenging and makes him want to practice and do better on his shots the next time. They dont incorporate drinking into their routine just several hours of relaxation, being out in nature, and having fun socializing as friends.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:33 PM
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I CAN go to an aa mtn (SW's interp and "hear" human beings but it takes a mindset 'afore going in. I can also go in thinking I know it all. I can say honestly that I only go once a month and my thumbs-downs are big. It IS probably me but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with my choice to drink. Any other questions? Looking for a sky to save me is not only a song but a cancerous IDEA. The reason we are BADASSES is because we stared this "I need one" in the eye and either said NO or effubeotch! Form is not nearly as important as intent. Anyone can make noise but make sure your eyes are open and you look the enemy in the eye. Your foe is your own split mind. We call it AV here. Don't underestimate it's pull (you created it to be eternal?). Uncreate that ....thing. Might take a year.....or more........ Just do anything but use.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MrPoutine View Post
Some counselors more or less suggested that clients should not worry too much about the religious/spiritual side of A, or working the steps. but suggested that AA could be considered to be more of a social club of people who don't drink.
I've heard this from counselors too, and some people do attend the meetings without buying into any of the program. Unfortunately you're right, there are many parts of the world where the only group in town is AA, though SMART especially has been growing like a weed in recent years and has many meetings in many places. But still not nearly as many places as AA.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:20 PM
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BlueChair: I have also read studies that show that socialization with non-drinkers is probably the most important factor that helps people who attend AA meetings. I see that you recommend the book "Inside Rehab" by Anne Fletcher. Reading that book was something of a turning point for me, when I read her opinion that AA works for many people, but not for all. At that point I made a decision to stop struggling with the concepts of AA that I just did not get, and move on to something else.

Personally, I did not feel that I need to join a new social group of non-drinkers, since virtually all of my existing friends drank lightly or not at all, and drinking was not the reason for our friendship. When I quit drinking, it was no big deal to them. When I used to drink heavily, I drank alone at home, in secret.
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by samseb5351 View Post
Good question,

There is a lot to this, as has been suggested by others. Perhaps we should also consider the foundations or principles of the main themes (usually spiritual and 12 step) in rehab, the messages of the Secular programs are not easily re-interpreted through traditional recovery methods and visa versa. In fact much of the drive behind Secular methods is a underlying push against the powerless, higher power, surrender ideas. To be taught methods that in many ways oppose each other would cause immense confusion. I hope one day there will be actual Secular recovery centers open up, with good doctors and science backing up the program. Perhaps at the end of the day we don't really need inpatient rehabs, there maybe some arguments that the institutional system as it exists now is actually part of the problem not the solution.
This is interesting too. I think the premise for rehab is supposed to be the scientific, medical view because its evidence based. We know about the brain and chemicals . This is what my husbands rehab taught. Science doesnt dictate addiction is spiritual condition or any ideas about being powerless. Ive never seen it presented at least. think it depends on what kind of rehab a person selects as to what line of thinking they present to their patients.

Great thread by the way.
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:04 PM
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I think the answer is simpler. There are so many AA meetings that rehabs can easily find one that fits their schedule to send its people too--and can be sure that the program will be available to the client when he or she returns home. The other programs have fewer meetings and might conflict with the rehab's schedule of activities and do not exist in every community.

I think in my rehab if I had found another program and wanted to attend its meetings no one would have stopped me. As long as a program does not contradict what goes on in rehab, would any rehab really care?
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:12 PM
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Miamifella has a great point, I think.

My experience came from a twenty day outpatient program I attended for four hours per day. They encouraged, but didn't require us, to go to AA meetings. The rehab itself was 12 Step based, which I did have an issue with initially. As things progressed, I became more open-minded about it, and eventually did attend some AA meetings. Ultimately, they weren't a good experience for me.

What I did make note of, however, was the inclusion of Women For Sobriety meetings on our rehab meeting list. So when I saw that, I had better feelings about the whole thing. At least, I thought, they included one other program offering.

I've read Anne Fletcher's first book, Sober For Good. And I read that many years before I finally got sober. I'd also attended SMART and WFS meetings by the time I ended up checking myself into that day IOP program. So, I don't think I presented as someone "fresh" onto the rehab/recovery scene, and thankfully, I was already armed with some objective information about my choices.

I do hope that the future will bring changes to rehab policy and offerings. I trust that things will go in a more progressive, and increasingly, a more scientific evidence based direction.
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:19 PM
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Great thread. Here in the UK I'd tried a few different AA meetings and they were horrible places to socialise filled with people of whom I had very little in common (other than an idea to stop drinking). I finally came across a newly set-up SMART™ group with very few members where I was treated kindly and learned a lot. Other groups were set up and 'members' were encouraged to set up their own groups, this was about 5 years ago, heralded as a new idea from America that didn't involve AA. Since I moved to a new area I've heard nothing about them and only discovered AVRT due to having nothing to lose by googling for help, this is the 21st century and the Internet is a web of information so soon I found SR and I learn more about myself than believing in something just because millions of others do! I like to be different, I'm not into any religious based stuff really and I think changes are already happening in this country but as with any changes they all take time to implement and begin to take effect.

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Old 05-24-2015, 05:50 PM
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Sober Jennie--What did they do in your rehab that was "12-step based?" The demands of group therapy vs 12-step recovery are so different that I cannot quite picture this.
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