Mindware Gap

Old 08-25-2014, 06:45 AM
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Mindware Gap

Currently reading a book on Warren Buffet. The author cites numerous times where Warren (arguably the most successful investor of all time) describes himself as not more intelligent than other investors, but more rational. The author then set about describing rational thinking. In doing so he gave a synopsis of a book by (Nobel Laureate) Daniel Kahneman called Thinking Fast and Slow. (Which is now on my list of things to read.)

Kahneman describes two types of thinking in the human brain, referred to as System 1 and System 2. System 1 thinking is mostly reflexive. System 2 thinking is more rational. Kahenman's hypothesis is that reflexive thinking is both easy and useful - but so much so that people tend to get lazy about thinking things through. Their minds find the quick and easy answer and they stop thinking. Thinking slowly and rationally requires extra effort and people tend to avoid it.

The author also addressed a mindware gap, which Kahneman believes is frequently present in people who have demonstrated difficulty in shifting from System 1 to System 2 thinking. From the reading, a mindware gap results from inadequate education or experience. You lack the grist required to mill some rational thoughts.

I found the descriptions of these phenomena to correlate to how my brain was working with respect to alcohol. I was stuck in System 1 thinking - taking the shortcut answer to feeling better (and drink). After filling my mindware gap with readings from this forum and some additional suggested literature I can now more easily shift from System 1 to System 2 thinking and find the best answer when my amygdala shouts out a suggestion to drink alcohol.

So, thanks, SR (and especially the Secular Connections Forum) , for helping to fill my mindware gap.
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:23 PM
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I would like to hear what you learn from that book. I saw a talk by that guy and thought it would be a good read except I don't read.
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Old 08-25-2014, 03:26 PM
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A very interesting hypothesis!! . . . alcoholics like a quick fix, it's certainly a steep learning curve to adjust to longer term solutions and results!!
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:50 AM
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A computer programming professor in college told us, "If you think working is hard, wait 'till you start thinking!" I always liked that one. Very true for me.
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:47 AM
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This guy has some great tedtalks
Daniel Kahneman: The riddle of experience vs. memory | Talk Video | TED.com
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:56 AM
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Good analogy
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:59 AM
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I am a few chapters into Thinking Fast and Slow by Kahneman. Thoroughly enjoying it. He hasn't mentioned addiction yet and I don't know if he will, but the descriptions of the System 1 (automatic) and System 2 (rational) thought processes, their interrelationship, and their limitations (especially of System 1) are hitting home for me in terms of understanding how my thought processes became such a train wreck with respect to alcohol. This is an oversimplification, but for me it puts science and/or academic scrutiny into AVRT.

This simple test explains System 1 and System 2 pretty well, I think. Work this math problem:
2 + 2

You didn't even slow down your reading pace. As soon as you saw the equation you knew the answer and kept moving. In fact, you can't unknow the answer. It is so locked into your memory and so easily retrievable that your brain processes it without ever shifting gears, and you can just keep right on going. You could do that math with the radio blasting your favorite song while making a left turn across 4 lanes of traffic. Now work this math problem:
17 X 24

Really work it. You can do that in your head. Maybe you prefer scratch paper and pencil, but you can do that math. But you had to slow down to do it. You had to pause while you focused your brain on math processes. You can do that one in your head, but you wouldn't want the radio blasting your favorite song while making a left across 4 lanes of traffic.

That, in a nutshell, is System 1 and System 2. One process that is on all the time, effortlessly piloting as you drive down the highway while you think about what to get your mom for her birthday or what to make for dinner. The other, hovering in the background, waiting for something System 1 can't handle - something that doesn't fit the context - something that can't be easily retrieved from experiential memory - something that requires deeper rational thinking to work out.

Sound familiar?
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Old 09-15-2014, 12:06 PM
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This book is over-the-top interesting reading for me. I typically read in bed before going to sleep. (I have insomnia, and that is part of my regimented routine that helps me stay in a sleep pattern.) Almost every night I want to jump up and copy whole paragraphs from the book onto this forum. I find the research into the way the thinking processes works to be highly insightful. Great stuff that I think addicts still struggling could really use to understand why and how their brain is betraying them - and how to overcome it.
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:13 AM
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"People's unwillingness to deduce the particular from the general is only matched by their willingness to infer the general from the particular."

In other words...

When people are told there is a characteristic very common in the population they rarely believe it applies to them (or people they know), but they are quite ready to believe the characteristics they observe in themselves (and others close to them) are quite common in the population.

Would you say that people who believe there is only one way to get sober are demonstrating a form of that phenomenon? I would.
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:24 AM
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Hey there nonsensical

Great post - I apologize if you have already mentioned title and author on the Warren Buffet book you are reading. Can you give it again - I'm definitely reading it and the next one you mentioned Thinking Fast and Slow.

I'm on to the AVRT thinking now -

Audra
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:08 AM
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Is this the book?
Rationality and the Reflective Mind
By Keith Stanovich
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Old 10-14-2014, 04:48 AM
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I am reading Thinking Fast and Slow currently.

The Buffet book that led me to Thinking Fast and Slow was called The Warren Buffet Way.
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Old 10-14-2014, 06:56 AM
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Seems reasonable. Quitting this time for me was much more succinct and AVRT was a big help for me and still is. I romanced the Idea that I could do some meth and get it off for a month but thought it through each time and it was never do-able. I'm a drinker but wanted to forget the last 2 times I messed with that stuff it made me psychotic and I was hospitalized. Drinking is easily dismiss-able and I rarely think about it. AV still tells me I need this e-cig and copious amounts of coffee and tea every day but I'm tapering slowly on those.
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Old 10-23-2014, 10:56 AM
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Say you were given this choice:
$500 free and clear
or
take a 50% chance to win $1,000/50% to win nothing

Which would you prefer? The sure thing ($500) or the risk of nothing for the chance to have $1,000? Which seems the better choice to you?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I hand you $1,000 and I give you this choice:
You can hand back $500
or
take a 50% chance of keep it all/50% chance of giving it all back

Which of those choices would you make?


The possible outcomes of both pairs of choices is the exact same. You can either have $500 or you can take a 50% risk at having $0 or $1,000. Most people, however, will evaluate those two situations differently. They will take the sure $500 in the first scenario and take the 50/50 bet in the second scenario. The difference is that the first set of choices is framed as two possible positive outcomes. The second set is framed as two possible negative outcomes.

When people see all of their options as bad, they will normally take more risks.

At the bottom of my addiction I saw all of my options as bad. The thought of stopping forever and never knowing that relaxing feeling alcohol could sometimes bring seemed terrifying. The thought of ruining my life with alcohol was terrifying. The thought of going into a recovery program I didn't believe in and didn't believe would work for me was painful. All my options were bad - it was time to take some risks.

And that's when I discovered secular connections...
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:34 PM
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Interesting discussion. I've read a bit about Buffett's life philosophy from from time to time, but never his investment strategy in general. I've mostly just assumed that he never abandoned the golden rule of investing, ever, ever, ever, with mulelike stubbornness. Buy undervalued assets and sell them when they are overvalued, repeat ad infinitum.
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