Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 3
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Indeed. People unfamiliar with how this 'works' assume that I must be constantly struggling against the Beast, but if anything, I'm kicking its ass — and enjoying it. AVRT is like a magic sledgehammer that turns Beasts into anvils.
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On a side note, after reading some of Mr. Trimpey's blogs tonight, I'm esp grateful to have gotten introduced to AVRT from this thread.
I can imagine myself having gotten a little sidetracked with parts of his worldview; .....initially.
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What advice could be given to one that has made many Big Plans, perhaps all of them half-hearted, and then broken it? Each time the Beast would appear to be in a stronger position:
Once a Big Plan has been broken the Beast can easily undermine it because it has a reply for whenever you tell it you will not change your mind.
Go ahead, make a Big Plan, it won't last, like the others. This is too easy.
At the end of RR:TNC, Chapter 13, titled Lapses, Relapses, and Other Nonsense on p. 210, it reads -
To point out the irrational stubbornness of my Big Plan, I am perfectly aware of, and very comfortable with, the idea that if discoveries were made in the future that allowed anyone to drink alcohol and not get drunk, I would still not drink - I could not drink. It doesn't even matter anymore why I quit.
In the movie North by Northwest, Cary Grant is forced to drink at gunpoint. I do not consider such an ingestion of alcohol to violate a Big Plan. That said, my Beast would love that to happen to me. Yes, my AV says it's worth risking getting shot to death. It says, just take the drink, and everything will work out OK.
Early on, I actually spent time with serious shifting on this sort of total improbability. Today the shifting is completely lopsided in my favor. I have to shine a light in a dark corner of my past to even recognize my AV anymore. It almost feels like a form of rhetoric, today.
"If you have made a Big Plan, try getting out of it and discover the meaning of the word never.
Tomorrow, your Beast will be busy at work, trying to salvage a foothold in your thinking. Will you be ready? I bet you will be."
I think that with a detailed backtracking of a person's thoughts from the point of pouring alcohol into his/her mouth and swallowing, a person can logically expose and understand more clearly how he/she had not really made a Big Plan in the first place.Tomorrow, your Beast will be busy at work, trying to salvage a foothold in your thinking. Will you be ready? I bet you will be."
To point out the irrational stubbornness of my Big Plan, I am perfectly aware of, and very comfortable with, the idea that if discoveries were made in the future that allowed anyone to drink alcohol and not get drunk, I would still not drink - I could not drink. It doesn't even matter anymore why I quit.
In the movie North by Northwest, Cary Grant is forced to drink at gunpoint. I do not consider such an ingestion of alcohol to violate a Big Plan. That said, my Beast would love that to happen to me. Yes, my AV says it's worth risking getting shot to death. It says, just take the drink, and everything will work out OK.
Early on, I actually spent time with serious shifting on this sort of total improbability. Today the shifting is completely lopsided in my favor. I have to shine a light in a dark corner of my past to even recognize my AV anymore. It almost feels like a form of rhetoric, today.
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See "Mr. Beast, Esq." on page 172 of RR:TNC.
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You can think of the Big Plan like a marriage vow — it is for better, or for worse. Obviously, some people have no qualms about getting divorced, but they do often re-marry. However, can you imagine the wedding officiant saying the following during your second wedding ceremony?
Officiant: "Kanamit, do you take [Name] to be your wedded wife to live together in marriage. Do you promise to love, comfort, honor and keep her For better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. And forsaking all others, be faithful only to her so long as you both shall live?"
Kanamit: I do.
Officiant: You've said that before !
This is essentially the same stunt the Beast will try to pull. It's nonsense. Pure AV.
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Thanks.
I only raised it because in the early days I was making Big Plans almost daily (literally) just like I did "Final Drinks" when I was reading Allen Carr.
I can't really remember how I got round it but thankfully I did.
I only raised it because in the early days I was making Big Plans almost daily (literally) just like I did "Final Drinks" when I was reading Allen Carr.
I can't really remember how I got round it but thankfully I did.
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I've noticed my beast has 'switched tactics' now...
My beast's previous main justification was the addicto-depressive state of 'ain't it awful, we must have something to relieve this pain before we kill ourselves!'
Now the beast seems to have got the message I won't fall for that one any more I've noticed it trying to change strategy to 'hey, let's wait till our life is really in order then we can AFFORD to have a little splashing out here and there'.
If I hear the beast piping up in this manner I quickly recite my mantra out loud 'i will never take drugs again and I will never change my mind' x3 which causes the beast to quiet down.
My beast's previous main justification was the addicto-depressive state of 'ain't it awful, we must have something to relieve this pain before we kill ourselves!'
Now the beast seems to have got the message I won't fall for that one any more I've noticed it trying to change strategy to 'hey, let's wait till our life is really in order then we can AFFORD to have a little splashing out here and there'.
If I hear the beast piping up in this manner I quickly recite my mantra out loud 'i will never take drugs again and I will never change my mind' x3 which causes the beast to quiet down.
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IamA,
The Beast has an uncanny ability to argue both sides of all arguments. This is why the Big Plan has to be for better or for worse, or it won't stick. If it helps, you might want to actually add that in — (ie, "I will never drink/use again, for better or for worse").
The Beast has an uncanny ability to argue both sides of all arguments. This is why the Big Plan has to be for better or for worse, or it won't stick. If it helps, you might want to actually add that in — (ie, "I will never drink/use again, for better or for worse").
I'm in. 4 months sober today and just finished reading rational recovery. I got sober going to AA and am thankful for the support I received. But the techniques that avrt teaches is just so simple and makes so much sense to me, I always thought there was 2 of me when it came to drinking, one of me saying yes Drink and one saying no don't. I learned a bit about the monster from Allan Carr when I gave up smoking, but I didn't know how to control the alcohol beast. So as of today I NEVER DRINK ALCOHOL AND I WILL NEVER CHANGE MY MIND FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE. It feels amazing to have my power back and not have to worry about relapsing on a daily bases.
Today I could feel my beast kick and squirm when my mates were going out to get smashed tonight, but now I know it's just my Beast and I don't have to worry that I was thinking about drinking and ring a sponsor and do the steps and pray and meditate and go and find an alcoholic to work on ect , I just told the beast my big plan and It all went quiet. I found out about avrt from all of you here at sr so I just wanted to say Thank you.
Today I could feel my beast kick and squirm when my mates were going out to get smashed tonight, but now I know it's just my Beast and I don't have to worry that I was thinking about drinking and ring a sponsor and do the steps and pray and meditate and go and find an alcoholic to work on ect , I just told the beast my big plan and It all went quiet. I found out about avrt from all of you here at sr so I just wanted to say Thank you.
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Iamabsitnent and TU, it is so interesting how clever the beast is. But the more I practice AVRT the more I recognize it every time. As you pointed out, It is very clever at arguing both sides of the argument. For example, several years ago when I was anticipating results from a blood test hoping my liver function would be ok. I thought that if it was a bad result the only way to cope with the news would be to have a drink (beast talk). As it turned out the tests came out fine so I thought... "I haven't done any damage yet doing what I've been doing so I'll just celebrate the good news with continued drinking" (beast talk as well). Two sides of the argument and two totally opposite feelings, being scared on the one hand and happy and relieved on the other. The beast uses any argument and any feeling as an excuse to drink.
Years ago I would never have thought that there was another entity that was driven to survive inside of me talking me into this rationale. I would have just thought it was me and that's the way I am. It's so freeing to be able to separate and recognize.
Years ago I would never have thought that there was another entity that was driven to survive inside of me talking me into this rationale. I would have just thought it was me and that's the way I am. It's so freeing to be able to separate and recognize.
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Just one more thing....I have been thinking about something that I wanted to share.... There were some previous posts about seeing beast talk all over the place. I am a member on another board for quitting or reducing drinking and I haven't really been on it much for the last 2 months. Today I went back to it just to see what was going on and I recognized beast talk in almost every single post.
A common dilemma seems to be, "something just comes over me at 5 pm and it's like I get taken over and I succumb to drinking. I don't know what it is, it's like one minute I'm ok, the next minute Im all alcohol thinking". People in general seem to be aware that something takes over and that there are voices in their head telling them to drink. They are just not aware that this thing that takes over and this voice talking to them is not them. They think it's them, and that's what causes them to think they have to obey. .... I know, a lot of pronouns, but I hope I'm getting my point across. Just recognizing and separating is a huge thing that most people not familiar with AVRT just aren't aware of.
A common dilemma seems to be, "something just comes over me at 5 pm and it's like I get taken over and I succumb to drinking. I don't know what it is, it's like one minute I'm ok, the next minute Im all alcohol thinking". People in general seem to be aware that something takes over and that there are voices in their head telling them to drink. They are just not aware that this thing that takes over and this voice talking to them is not them. They think it's them, and that's what causes them to think they have to obey. .... I know, a lot of pronouns, but I hope I'm getting my point across. Just recognizing and separating is a huge thing that most people not familiar with AVRT just aren't aware of.
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People in general seem to be aware that something takes over and that there are voices in their head telling them to drink. They are just not aware that this thing that takes over and this voice talking to them is not them. They think it's them, and that's what causes them to think they have to obey...
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It is very clever at arguing both sides of the argument. For example, several years ago when I was anticipating results from a blood test hoping my liver function would be ok. I thought that if it was a bad result the only way to cope with the news would be to have a drink (beast talk). As it turned out the tests came out fine so I thought... "I haven't done any damage yet doing what I've been doing so I'll just celebrate the good news with continued drinking" (beast talk as well). Two sides of the argument and two totally opposite feelings, being scared on the one hand and happy and relieved on the other. The beast uses any argument and any feeling as an excuse to drink.
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Never pity the enemy
On a similar note to the above: If you ever find yourself starting to struggle, remember that any negative feelings/relapse anxiety cannot possibly be yours.
AVRT Matrix — Copyright rational.org
If you think you might take a drink after watching an advert on television or you are anxious about having to meet some friends at a bar, remember the anxiety is not yours. By definition, it cannot be. It is your Beast who is worried and by rejoicing in its negative feelings you can feel good about any so-called trigger situations.
It took me a while to get my head around this but I think it is one of the most important aspects as you can turn the tables in your favour in an instant.
AVRT Matrix — Copyright rational.org
If you think you might take a drink after watching an advert on television or you are anxious about having to meet some friends at a bar, remember the anxiety is not yours. By definition, it cannot be. It is your Beast who is worried and by rejoicing in its negative feelings you can feel good about any so-called trigger situations.
It took me a while to get my head around this but I think it is one of the most important aspects as you can turn the tables in your favour in an instant.
I just wanted to thank TU for introducing me to Rational Recovery. I just read the Quick Start and some of the Crash Course. Everything I have read so far makes such perfect sense to me.
I have to go to work, but intend to start at the beginning of this thread and read it in it's entirity as well as reading the rest of the what I have started.
I have to go to work, but intend to start at the beginning of this thread and read it in it's entirity as well as reading the rest of the what I have started.
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