God... - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

ElegantlyWasted · 10-15-2009, 03:25 PM

Could it be that "God", hp or spirituality in general is simply becomming aware of our consciousness and emotions? A shrink mentioned "The god reflex" a while ago.. It seems to make sense to me. Interested on the collective consciousness take.

**Astro** · 10-15-2009, 03:43 PM

Just my $.02 worth.....yes it's an awareness for me, but more than that it's an openness. If my heart, soul, and mind aren't open and available to a Higher Power, then I'm shutting myself off to the "sunlight of the spirit".

ElegantlyWasted · 10-15-2009, 05:34 PM

As best I can figure it out... To a certain extent we enhance our own spirituality and connectnedness be understanding it in others...

Bamboozle · 10-15-2009, 06:16 PM

I'm aware of my consciousness and emotions. I do not have a belief in gods. I do not have spirituality.

Everything that makes up who it is I am is due to brain activity (influenced by genetics and environment).

tyler · 10-15-2009, 06:57 PM

Not really sure why this is posted in the Secular forum:wtf2

Zencat · 10-15-2009, 07:01 PM

I'm not connecting the "God reflex" (a desire to label the unexplainable as an act of God) and being aware of our consciousness and emotions. But I do believe the God reflex is a good short answer as to how the idea of God came about in the minds of early humans.

As for becoming aware that I'm a conscious and emotional being and labeling that spiritual. Not sure of where to take that one. I am however becoming very reluctant to apply the term spiritual to myself because of the generally accepted definition of the word. It just doesn't fit well with my secular understanding of the world around and within me.

I can say that having an awareness of how I effect the world and how I'm effected by the same is more pronounced now that I'm sober.

ElegantlyWasted · 10-15-2009, 07:17 PM

I think that subscribing to a secular ideology or recovery
program does not exclude the possibility of god. Secular does not mean athiest ergo this post is appropriate. Even if one argues that spirituality is an abstract concept simply
created to prevent people
from jumping off
of buildings. The original post was created to explore and expand upon the commonalities of successful recoveries.

windysan · 10-15-2009, 07:37 PM

I'm too dumb to understand such things. I'm a simple man.

ElegantlyWasted · 10-15-2009, 07:40 PM

Me too Windy; but it keeps me out of the bars!

jimhere · 10-23-2009, 08:58 AM

"As for becoming aware that I'm a conscious and emotional being and labeling that spiritual."

I'm a God person, but lately I've realized that I don't believe in "God" per se.

I think it is more about consciousness, awareness, & experience than any set of beliefs. I've heard it said that religious beliefs can be a bar to religious experience. What a person believes can keep them from the experience.

To sum it up, for me "God is more of an experience than an idea.
Peace,
Jim

mistycshore · 10-28-2009, 03:59 PM

Yo, I think many of us drank to become unaware of our emotions.

Sometimes to the point of unconsciousness.

Anyway, if want to talk "collective unconscience," that's more interesting in my opinion. But what is "collective conscience"? It sounds a whole lot like "group conscience."

Live · 10-29-2009, 08:49 AM

Buddhism speaks of enhancing the collective conscousness through education and growth enhancing experiences and intentionality
I consider Buddhism a philosophy rather than a religion.

gneiss · 10-29-2009, 12:05 PM

I had a friend tell me his concept of God isn't an old dude in the clouds. He thinks of it as an energy that runs between people, sort of similar to karma I guess, but he thinks of it as positive rather than positive or negative (if my understanding of the concept of Karma is off, forgive me). If I were going to believe in God, this is how I would think of it.

Ago · 10-29-2009, 12:29 PM

The following sum it up for me as good as anything else, if you don't recognize where the quotes are from I can't help you

It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.

my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes.

the most difficult trial we must face is to look inside oneself. Often we see things we don't like. But these aspects are not set in stone. It is our decisions that shape our destinies."

many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view

For a good idea why Man created God in his own image, read The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris and his theory about the lost "alpha male" we lost when we evolved into a cooperative species, even to "Primate begging gestures" being identical to prayer and us keeping a house for this lost alpha male for his return, and we bring him offerings of food and money

Like Jim I am a "god person" that doesn't believe in God per se, I don't believe in a deity or an otherness and like liveweyerd I have a philosophy rather then a religion, although it's more closely tied to Taoism then Buddhism although it has aspects of both

There is no try, there is only do

ElegantlyWasted · 10-29-2009, 01:10 PM

Thought this post died... Must be philosophical Thursday!
My line of thinking was more along the lines of how the concept of god and spirituality are interwoven in culture and evolve as we come to a better understanding of our world. As societies modernized the isms too precedent over organized religion as the primary means for ordering societies, fascism, capitalism, communism etc, while religion remained a choice as a spiritual outlet. Specifically applied to modern addiction recovery; I think it means that everyone has choice to figure out how fill the void/ rebuild oneself without their doc. It implies different paths for different people. It's why AA works. AA teaches a discipline that ultimately enhances personal growth and awareness. It's spiritual, which validates our emotions as experiences sober, and open ended enough to allow a person to grow as an individual. The god reflex, then could be considered a necessary human quality for social order, whether channeled into denying, believing, or embracing the isms. The Jungian concept of collective conscious involves more than I could explain with any brevity, but includes aspects of budhism, Freudian psychology, sociology and many other things. It's sort of an overlap or shared understanding among people in general or a subgroup in specific. His dream analysis is both fun and informative. Sorry for rambling, reading everyones posts helps me keep it real and clarifies my own thoughts. Humbly on day 93.

ElegantlyWasted · 10-29-2009, 01:41 PM

Great post ago. Interesting Alpha Male observation. We are social creatures and need leadership. Collectivism and communism ultimately lead to inefficiency corruption and totalitarianism. Has our societal concept of an ideal alpha male evolved into something better... Or has it degenerated into simply wanting a Patsy figurehead to satisfy society's whims to the best of his/her abitities. Churchill's take makes sense to me, "democracy is the worst form of government; with the exception of all the others. Though here in the states we do live in a Republic. Relating this to addiction recovery; it means we have choice wether we want it or not. A rigid program for a recovering addict is necessary for a quality recovery, yet choosing one is contrary to the addicts nature. Hence, bottoming out and "conversion experiences" make real sense to me now.

Zencat · 10-29-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElegantlyWasted

Relating this to addiction recovery; it means we have choice wether we want it or not. A rigid program for a recovering addict is necessary for a quality recovery, yet choosing one is contrary to the addicts nature.

Yes I see that's true for my personalized addiction treatment program that I work. I recognized the need to construct a comprehensive program that would address my specific needs for a quality recovery. Thankfully today there are recovery methods that I can adapt too, that will bring about a deep psychical change in my behavior. A lasting change that I can build upon. Thankfully an addicts nature can be changed.

Bamboozle · 10-29-2009, 06:05 PM

I think religion/government is power and control.

Every day I hope that both leave me alone.

gneiss · 10-29-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ago

The following sum it up for me as good as anything else, if you don't recognize where the quotes are from I can't help you

It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.

my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes.

the most difficult trial we must face is to look inside oneself. Often we see things we don't like. But these aspects are not set in stone. It is our decisions that shape our destinies."

many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view

*Gulp* If I'm reading this right, we're now basing religion on Star Wars?

There are worse things to base it on I suppose. I think I'll go with Lord of the Rings.

Jes' bein' a smart alek. This is a cool thread.

[/interuption]

Ago · 10-29-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gneiss

*Gulp* If I'm reading this right, we're now basing religion on Star Wars?

There are worse things to base it on I suppose. I think I'll go with Lord of the Rings.

Jes' bein' a smart alek. This is a cool thread.

[/interuption]

Dude do NOT be messin with Gandalf, he and Dumbledore are my other two prophets

mistycshore · 10-30-2009, 04:56 PM

Wow. It started out sounding intelligent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElegantlyWasted

Thought this post died... Must be philosophical Thursday!
My line of thinking was more along the lines of how the concept of god and spirituality are interwoven in culture and evolve as we come to a better understanding of our world. As societies modernized the isms too precedent over organized religion as the primary means for ordering societies, fascism, capitalism, communism etc, while religion remained a choice as a spiritual outlet. Specifically applied to modern addiction recovery; I think it means that everyone has choice to figure out how fill the void/ rebuild oneself without their doc. It implies different paths for different people. It's why AA works.

For whom? And why are you posting *here* when there are multiple 12-step recovery groups on this very site. Why *here*?

<snip of ya-da-ya-da>

Quote:

The Jungian concept of collective conscious involves more than I could explain with any brevity, but includes aspects of budhism, Freudian psychology, sociology and many other things.

I am the one who brought it up, and really there's no need to explain it to me. That it involves Freud and and psychology is kind of a no-brainer (they don't call it "Jungian psychology" for nothing). How you define sociology is your business.

Quote:

It's sort of an overlap or shared understanding among people in general or a subgroup in specific. His dream analysis is both fun and informative.

Really? I found his dream interpretation stuff to be 99% bunk. I guess that shared understanding isn't so shared as one might hope.

Quote:

Sorry for rambling, reading everyones posts helps me keep it real and clarifies my own thoughts.

And keeps a venue available for you to push AA in the one forum on this site where that is off topic. Got it. Bye.

windysan · 10-31-2009, 08:13 AM

doorknob · 10-31-2009, 06:38 PM

RAmen, y'all.

Bamboozle · 10-31-2009, 11:34 PM

Hey, DK.

Boleo · 11-03-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhere

I'm a God person, but lately I've realized that I don't believe in "God" per se.

I used to be a God person to but lately I am starting to see God everywhere I look, even in my dog.

Does that make me a pantheist?

10-15-2009, 03:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
ElegantlyWasted Excellence... not Perfection Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 1,190 Blog Entries: 8	God... Could it be that "God", hp or spirituality in general is simply becomming aware of our consciousness and emotions? A shrink mentioned "The god reflex" a while ago.. It seems to make sense to me. Interested on the collective consciousness take. __________________ "We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't...we don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told."

10-15-2009, 03:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
Astro Forum Leader Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family! Posts: 11,833	Just my $.02 worth.....yes it's an awareness for me, but more than that it's an openness. If my heart, soul, and mind aren't open and available to a Higher Power, then I'm shutting myself off to the "sunlight of the spirit". __________________ "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty, and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming---WOW-What a ride!"

10-15-2009, 05:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
ElegantlyWasted Excellence... not Perfection Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 1,190 Blog Entries: 8	As best I can figure it out... To a certain extent we enhance our own spirituality and connectnedness be understanding it in others... __________________ "We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't...we don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told."

10-15-2009, 06:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
Bamboozle I got nothin' Duck Hunt 2 Champion! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: My house. Posts: 4,776 Blog Entries: 14	I'm aware of my consciousness and emotions. I do not have a belief in gods. I do not have spirituality. Everything that makes up who it is I am is due to brain activity (influenced by genetics and environment). __________________ A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

10-15-2009, 06:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
tyler Not all better, getting better Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Beautiful Inner Banks of NC Posts: 1,600 Blog Entries: 8	Not really sure why this is posted in the Secular forum:wtf2 __________________ Peace and Love, Tyler *"I used to do a little but a little wouldn't do it so a little got more and more. I just keep tryin' to get a little better, said a little better than before."* Mr. Brownstone G-n-R Heck is where people go who don't believe in Gosh

10-15-2009, 07:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Zencat ٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ventura Co. California USA Posts: 5,979 Blog Entries: 9	I'm not connecting the "God reflex" (a desire to label the unexplainable as an act of God) and being aware of our consciousness and emotions. But I do believe the God reflex is a good short answer as to how the idea of God came about in the minds of early humans. As for becoming aware that I'm a conscious and emotional being and labeling that spiritual. Not sure of where to take that one. I am however becoming very reluctant to apply the term spiritual to myself because of the generally accepted definition of the word. It just doesn't fit well with my secular understanding of the world around and within me. I can say that having an awareness of how I effect the world and how I'm effected by the same is more pronounced now that I'm sober. __________________ My ❀ Name ☯ Is ❤ Will G ☞ 禅 “The easiest thing to be in the world is you. The most difficult thing to be is what other people want you to be. Don't let them put you in that position.”― Leo Buscaglia

10-15-2009, 07:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
ElegantlyWasted Excellence... not Perfection Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 1,190 Blog Entries: 8	I think that subscribing to a secular ideology or recovery program does not exclude the possibility of god. Secular does not mean athiest ergo this post is appropriate. Even if one argues that spirituality is an abstract concept simply created to prevent people from jumping off of buildings. The original post was created to explore and expand upon the commonalities of successful recoveries. __________________ "We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't...we don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told."

10-15-2009, 07:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
windysan Big Idiot Man Child Join Date: May 2004 Location: La Posts: 5,774	I'm too dumb to understand such things. I'm a simple man. __________________ ZigZaggin through Weirdland

10-15-2009, 07:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
ElegantlyWasted Excellence... not Perfection Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 1,190 Blog Entries: 8	Me too Windy; but it keeps me out of the bars! __________________ "We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't...we don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told."

10-23-2009, 08:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
jimhere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 2,392	"As for becoming aware that I'm a conscious and emotional being and labeling that spiritual." I'm a God person, but lately I've realized that I don't believe in "God" per se. I think it is more about consciousness, awareness, & experience than any set of beliefs. I've heard it said that religious beliefs can be a bar to religious experience. What a person believes can keep them from the experience. To sum it up, for me "God is more of an experience than an idea. Peace, Jim

10-28-2009, 03:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
mistycshore Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 271	Yo, I think many of us drank to become unaware of our emotions. Sometimes to the point of unconsciousness. Anyway, if want to talk "collective unconscience," that's more interesting in my opinion. But what is "collective conscience"? It sounds a whole lot like "group conscience." __________________ Misty

10-29-2009, 08:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
Live Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Bristol TN/VA Posts: 11,305 Blog Entries: 5	Buddhism speaks of enhancing the collective conscousness through education and growth enhancing experiences and intentionality I consider Buddhism a philosophy rather than a religion. __________________ Each small candle lights a corner of the dark....Roger Waters

10-29-2009, 12:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
gneiss Never settle. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Under immense pressure Posts: 1,494	I had a friend tell me his concept of God isn't an old dude in the clouds. He thinks of it as an energy that runs between people, sort of similar to karma I guess, but he thinks of it as positive rather than positive or negative (if my understanding of the concept of Karma is off, forgive me). If I were going to believe in God, this is how I would think of it. __________________ Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. --Bob Marley, Redemption Song

10-29-2009, 12:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ago Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA Posts: 2,173 Blog Entries: 3	The following sum it up for me as good as anything else, if you don't recognize where the quotes are from I can't help you It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. the most difficult trial we must face is to look inside oneself. Often we see things we don't like. But these aspects are not set in stone. It is our decisions that shape our destinies." many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view For a good idea why Man created God in his own image, read The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris and his theory about the lost "alpha male" we lost when we evolved into a cooperative species, even to "Primate begging gestures" being identical to prayer and us keeping a house for this lost alpha male for his return, and we bring him offerings of food and money Like Jim I am a "god person" that doesn't believe in God per se, I don't believe in a deity or an otherness and like liveweyerd I have a philosophy rather then a religion, although it's more closely tied to Taoism then Buddhism although it has aspects of both There is no try, there is only do

10-29-2009, 01:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
ElegantlyWasted Excellence... not Perfection Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 1,190 Blog Entries: 8	Thought this post died... Must be philosophical Thursday! My line of thinking was more along the lines of how the concept of god and spirituality are interwoven in culture and evolve as we come to a better understanding of our world. As societies modernized the isms too precedent over organized religion as the primary means for ordering societies, fascism, capitalism, communism etc, while religion remained a choice as a spiritual outlet. Specifically applied to modern addiction recovery; I think it means that everyone has choice to figure out how fill the void/ rebuild oneself without their doc. It implies different paths for different people. It's why AA works. AA teaches a discipline that ultimately enhances personal growth and awareness. It's spiritual, which validates our emotions as experiences sober, and open ended enough to allow a person to grow as an individual. The god reflex, then could be considered a necessary human quality for social order, whether channeled into denying, believing, or embracing the isms. The Jungian concept of collective conscious involves more than I could explain with any brevity, but includes aspects of budhism, Freudian psychology, sociology and many other things. It's sort of an overlap or shared understanding among people in general or a subgroup in specific. His dream analysis is both fun and informative. Sorry for rambling, reading everyones posts helps me keep it real and clarifies my own thoughts. Humbly on day 93. __________________ "We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't...we don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told."

10-29-2009, 01:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
ElegantlyWasted Excellence... not Perfection Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 1,190 Blog Entries: 8	Great post ago. Interesting Alpha Male observation. We are social creatures and need leadership. Collectivism and communism ultimately lead to inefficiency corruption and totalitarianism. Has our societal concept of an ideal alpha male evolved into something better... Or has it degenerated into simply wanting a Patsy figurehead to satisfy society's whims to the best of his/her abitities. Churchill's take makes sense to me, "democracy is the worst form of government; with the exception of all the others. Though here in the states we do live in a Republic. Relating this to addiction recovery; it means we have choice wether we want it or not. A rigid program for a recovering addict is necessary for a quality recovery, yet choosing one is contrary to the addicts nature. Hence, bottoming out and "conversion experiences" make real sense to me now. __________________ "We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't...we don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told."

10-29-2009, 06:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
Bamboozle I got nothin' Duck Hunt 2 Champion! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: My house. Posts: 4,776 Blog Entries: 14	I think religion/government is power and control. Every day I hope that both leave me alone. __________________ A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

10-31-2009, 08:13 AM	#22 (permalink)
windysan Big Idiot Man Child Join Date: May 2004 Location: La Posts: 5,774	__________________ ZigZaggin through Weirdland

10-31-2009, 06:38 PM	#23 (permalink)
doorknob Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA Posts: 4,015	RAmen, y'all. __________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort

10-31-2009, 11:34 PM	#24 (permalink)
Bamboozle I got nothin' Duck Hunt 2 Champion! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: My house. Posts: 4,776 Blog Entries: 14	Hey, DK. __________________ A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

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