|
| | |||||||
| | LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
| | #1 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 677
| Rethinking Alcoholism
I have been thinking about this for awhile. I got really into thinking about it ever since that prohibition thread. But it was also motivated by the hard drinker vs. real alcoholic argument. Basically, I am a big nerd and I read a lot of research about addiction and alcoholism. A lot. I am more and more overwhelmed by the differences in research about treatment and how treatment is carried out. I basically think the alcoholism field needs to grow amply. I think currently it only serves people who have reached the most acute stage. I think that prevention and catching people earlier is possible. I also think alcoholism comes in different shades than we talk about here. I believe my family is full of high functioning alcoholics who are not going to get worse. I don't think this means they don't have alcohol problems. But whatever, I can go off on rants and probably this isn't the place. However, I do think that we should try and think of things on all sides of the coin. I want to share a really interesting article. If anything it will get you thinking. Source Citation:Willenbring, Mark L. "New research is redefining alcohol disorders; Does the treatment field have the courage to change?." Addiction Professional 6.5 (Sept-Oct 2008): 12(7). General OneFile. Gale. San Francisco Public Library. 22 June 2009 Quote:
Last edited by Alera; 06-22-2009 at 01:36 AM. | |
| | |
| The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to sfgirl For This Useful Post: | AnthonyV (07-29-2009), Bamboozle (06-22-2009), Freepath (06-22-2009), ghostgirl (07-26-2009), mistycshore (07-10-2009), Phaleron (06-23-2009), steamvessel (08-01-2009), SugarScars (07-10-2009), Zencat (06-22-2009) |
| | #2 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 18,236
|
I don't think my alcoholism could have been caught earlier because at that stage I was drinking because I wanted to and didn't want to stop. It is only after a line had been crossed and it becomes a problem that a person will want to do anything about it. A person drinks, at first, because they like it and because of this the comparison between drinking and depression or breast cancer doesn't hold up. I do think it would be a good idea for GPs to be more aware of problem drinking and maybe offer help before it is asked for though. Might help?
__________________ . As from a fire aflame thousands of sparks come forth, even so from the Creator an infinity of beings have life and to him return again. -- Maitri Upanishads |
| | |
| | #3 (permalink) |
| SR's Secular Greeter Cat. |
I think that there many people that have problems with alcohol and resist the idea of having a label. I believe that alone keeps many away from seeking help.
__________________ ![]() “Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare.” -Japanese Proverb ![]() |
| | |
| | #4 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 677
| Quote:
But yeah motivation for change is a difficult issue. However, the deeper in you get probably the more motivation you need. I mean I started crying when I realized I was actually going to have to stop for real. Alcohol was my life. My best friend. It was true. Sad. You probably need less motivation when it is just your acquaintance but then again it might not seem like an issue. | |
| | |
| | #5 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Htown, baby!
Posts: 348
|
People have different degrees of alcohol problems.. I'm still don't consider people who can function to be alcoholics, because i think for some people the problem is so bad that they cant function at all-they lose their job, family, or what have you. Its seems not fair to put a person who abuses alcohol, even on long benders, in the same category as someone who drinks night and day and can exercise no control at all. But that's just me. Obviously, both groups suffer and addicts cross both groups as well. My image of an alcoholic is different from others.. that's because there is no such thing as alcoholism. Addiction and dependence are broad enough to count all degrees of alcohol problems. The label "alcoholic" is not based on any kind of science at all. The treatment industry has brainwashed us into thinking that alcoholism is a progressive incurable illness. Rehabs would go out of business if alcoholism was no longer considered a disease...or if they only catered to people in the acute stages of a problem.
__________________ "If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightening." Frederick Douglass |
| | |
| The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Eroica For This Useful Post: | doorknob (06-22-2009), lunarise (06-23-2009), mattcake79 (06-27-2009), Phaleron (07-26-2009), sfgirl (06-23-2009) |
| | #6 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 261
|
I think it is a continuum rather than black & white. I knew a man who drank insanely for his entire life, lost his home, family, career, survived a drunken shoot out with the sheriffs and continued to live in various states of drunkedness until he was diagnosed with cancer in his late 60s. Then he cut back to one beer a day - boom, just like that. One beer a day is not something I would want to try (sounds rather hellish), but it goes to show that recovery lore is based on bad assumptions and imaginary categories (heavy drinker vs. alcoholic, etc.). Practically though, I doubt the health insurance industry is going to want to ante up for treatment of people who are not in very bad shape. And I'm guessing most family doctors working under HMO guidelines would prefer prescribing meds and recommending support groups, especially for patients who are high-functioning. |
| | |
| | #7 (permalink) | ||
| Apprentice Bator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Northern California
Posts: 99
| Quote:
Quote:
I guess I see where the author is going with this article, and I absolutely agree that current recovery paradigms are not evidence based, but turning the whole thing into some kind of health care guinea pig phenomena seems absurd. It just seems to me that if enough people reject drugs and alcohol and clearly have happy lives as a result, that would be a much more powerful reason for anyone to make a decision to quit. | ||
| | |
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Freepath For This Useful Post: |
| | #9 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 677
| There was a graphic that didn't come through when I copied the article showing the continuum of care proposed. Here it is: ![]() Here is the link to the article on the Addiction Professional website: New research is redefining alcohol disorders | Articles & Archives | ArtIcles/News | Addiction Professional Also, I didn't realize this until now, but the author, Dr. Mark Willenbring is the Director of the Division of Treatment and Recovery Research at the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. |
| | |
| The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to sfgirl For This Useful Post: | AnthonyV (06-28-2009), Freepath (06-24-2009), lunarise (06-23-2009), mistycshore (07-10-2009), Phaleron (07-26-2009) |
| | #10 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 796
|
Interesting thread. It was obvious I had a problem with alcohol from the first time I got drunk when I ws around 12, the stuff tasted horrendous (it was straight gin!) but yet I drank and drank and there is nothing anyone could have done to change my behaviour. One of my sisters used to refer to me as the 'family lush' when I was just in my 20s, so I just avoided seeing her and the rest of my family for many many years. I think the only early education that can be successful comes from within the family. 2 of my 4 siblings have never touched a drop of alcohol because they saw what it did to my father and in turn the effect his drunkenness had on our mother; of the other 3, 2 of us definetly drink or drank wayyyyyyyy too much and 1 seems to be able to drink responsibly. My 12 year drinking binge started when my daughter was 12 but even before that I always talked to her about the fact that alcoholism ran in our family and the negatives it had, then of course she continued to live with while I tried to drink myself to death, I always made alcohol available to her told her if she wanted to drink she could with me and she did once or twice--she saw all the negative effects of uncontrollable drinking in me and she is now 28 and has never developed a taste nor desire for much drinking.
__________________ ~~~Judy~~~ First day of my beautiful life 9/1/07 "...Suffering produces persevance; perseverance character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint.." Romans 5:3 "With God all things are possible" |
| | |
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jamdls For This Useful Post: |
| | #11 (permalink) |
| Apprentice Bator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Northern California
Posts: 99
|
Sfgirl, I thought quite a bit about this today and I read some more of your threads. You have made some fantastic points. It seems disappointing that kids graduating from high school know everything from how to solve geometry and algebra problems, to how to speak a foreign language, to how to make something in woodshop, but culturally, we mention disappointingly little about alcohol. I do remember quite a bit of attention being given to drugs and drunk driving, but never to the addictive dangers of alcohol. Couldn’t they say that alcohol could very well cause you to die at about half the age that you should? If someone did stand up in the front of a high school rally or health class and explained the dangers of alcohol, would anyone listen? Especially the way our culture is today? I remember starting when I was very young. Alcohol was around when I was young, and alcohol addiction has occurred in my ancestors. I don’t see much credence in the semantics that people like to argue about. From my perspective, it all seems like the inability to control when you drink, and how much you drink. So, promotion of health and prevention of alcoholism are wonderful ideas. I believe that this involves changing the way that our entire culture views alcohol. But that’s not so crazy, right? 70 years ago the United States military gave free cigarettes to anyone serving in the military who wanted them. You can’t even smoke while you are walking down the sidewalk in some cities today. I believe that you should go ahead and rant. Maybe that’s just what our culture needs is more people pointing out the problems which result from the addiction to alcohol. We sure do seem to have quite a few people in denial on the other side of the argument. Thank you for remaining an avid reader and a constant inspiration. |
| | |
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Freepath For This Useful Post: |
| | #12 (permalink) |
| ONE is too many! | Thank you
Thank you for providing this viewpoint. I agree with much of what it proposes and feel that I am a good example of the type of person who has been most neglected by the current system. As a young professional, I am often not welcome in traditional settings. I receive contradictory messages from many health professionals: I am not severe enough to have a real problem and should be able to "fix" myself on my own (too successful); I am too severe (too deviant) to be served by the current system: there is no place for me within today's addiction treatment model. I am an IV drug user who has been considered conversely too severe for traditional treatment and not severe enough, as the traditional treatments do not meet my needs - nor do I meet theirs. I, for one, believe that change within the system is definitely in order and believe that had treatment been ATTRACTIVE to me as a college student, I would have chosen a much different path. I knew that I had a problem, but believed that my only options were traditional treatment (giving up, believing that I had an incurable disease and needed to sell all of my dreams for a better life in order to recover) or to continue to try to use successfully with a minimal amount of consequence (which has grown quite old - I'm over it!). It appears that I have slipped through the cracks, and continue to do so. My current Suboxone doctor considers me a peer, and often forgets that I have a deadly condition. I was also rejected for treatment by another Suboxone clinic who deemed me "too high-risk", meaning that they refused to treat me because they thought that I was too severe. I could have ruined their numbers and what treatment center wants that? The mixed messages of our current treatment model are extremely unattractive indeed. Individualized attention is in order. This is truly about saving individual lives and not about forcing individuals to conform to models that do not serve their unique needs, but rather the needs of the facility to prove SHEER VOLUME. This quantity over quality mindset is causing many people to needlessly die. Each of us is unique like everybody else! |
| | |
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SugarScars For This Useful Post: |
| | #13 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 677
|
Thank you so much for your comments SugarScars. It is really complicated. I just started drug and alcohol counseling classes last week. I went to an information session about a month ago and they were talking about how it was a growing field— trying in a way to attract people in this dwindling economy. They talked about how the number of people diverted from jail to treatment programs was increasing and there needed to be places to put them because of prop 36 here in California. All placements for the internships were in prop 36 places or community non-profit type clinics. There was a definite emphasis on the traditional "underserved" population. When I went to therapy a few days later I was talking about prop 36 and the like because I used to work at a criminal defense law firm and the emphasis on the "underserved" population and I suddenly realized that in this field, I actually am the "underserved" population. While I may have the financial and other resources to get health care (minus the fact that it was extremely difficult for me to get health insurance but that is a whole different story...) in terms of my alcoholism I have been missed so many times. And like you talk about— when I started to take it seriously, the health professionals did not take me seriously. I remember telling my primary care doctor that I really wanted to work on my drinking, that I thought it was a problem. Her response was that was a good idea because she sees people who are high functioning my parents age who struggle with it. Ok, that was it. Wait, now that I think about it, she is a doctor should she not have pointed me in some sort of direction, not just told me "good idea!" Exactly, she treated me like a peer. That conversation was five years ago. Conversely, if I had been arrested for some sort of drug or alcohol related issue maybe prop 36 would have taken me seriously but one of my top priorities was not driving at all. I had enough money to support my habit. The likelihood of my arrest was very, very low. In a way the only option I knew about were those fancy malibu overpriced rehabs that seemed like a joke and part of me didn't feel that far gone. What I really needed was someone that knew about addiction to talk to me, to be pointed to a counselor who specialized in alcoholism. I feel like I did my part more than enough. I realized I had a problem. It was the health professionals who did not quite know what to do with me. I see people my parents age who are extremely high functioning alcoholics. I just feel in a way there are so many different presentations of the disease and that to not allow those different presentations to exist keeps people in the emotional pain. That makes me so sad. I didn't link the emotional pain I was in to my alcoholism until I got sober and I just want everyone to have that chance. |
| | |
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to sfgirl For This Useful Post: |
| | #14 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: TX
Posts: 27
|
The professionals have two categories: alcohol abuse and alcohol dependent. There is no physical test for either; no cat scan, x ray, blood test for physical lesion or antibodies. Both are in the DSM. I prefer these two categories. It is far easier to quit when it is early days; when the habit is far less developed. It is far easier to quit when the drinking and mental health issues are not involved. Put the two together -- people get confused about the description of the problem and the solution. It is far easier to quit when you have very strong reasons to quit. It is a continuum; it is not either/or. This means that humans are individuals and do not fit into a mold. I used RR, but I did not know that I did until after I read the book. After I quit, I went to SMART Recovery on line. |
| | |
| | #15 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: TX
Posts: 27
|
This is coming on to four years after abuse was over and done with; so, there is some perspective here [ I think]. I was on the line between risk drinking and harmful drinking. early days. It was a bad pattern that I had gotten into. It had gone on for a about a year. And, was in the way of me putting life back together. Which had come apart and precipitated the abuse. I think that some self awareness is needed; a realization of the connection between behavior and consequences; a strong incentive to change; the determination to do so; real support from others; etc. I had all save the last one; at the least, it had the smallest effect upon me. I would say that there are real limits to safe drinking -- long term limits and short term limits. Be aware of the risks and donnot challenge the odds. |
| | |
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to agrippa For This Useful Post: | Phaleron (07-26-2009), SugarScars (07-25-2009) |
| | #16 (permalink) |
| Apprentice Bator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Northern California
Posts: 99
|
Here's another interesting article related to this subject: Addiction Is a Brain Disease, and It Matters -- Leshner 1 (2): 190 -- Focus This addresses the disease versus decision argument. |
| | |
| The Following User Says Thank You to Freepath For This Useful Post: | Phaleron (07-26-2009) |
| Bookmarks |
| Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
| |
| |
© 2007 SoberRecovery, LLC. |
The SoberRecovery Forums are operated under a grant from The Mulligan Group