What's the point?

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by Alera

Is there any activity you can think of that might help you while you suffer through the depression (as I do know it won't go away overnight...the key is to get through it).

Yeah...taking pictures when the weather isn't crappy helps. And I go for walks when I can.

[Gypsy Feet]

The first time I left my husband and moved into "the cave" I spiraled into a real bad spot. The cave is a room built into his garage, with one small window covered in thick velvet curtains. When first I moved in here, I played on the computer all night and slept sporadically through the day. I drank heavily. By the time I had lived in this room 3 months, I was in a really bad place.

When I moved out of the cave, I moved into a house with a small above ground pool my dogs and I would sit in for hours. Within a very short time, everything in my head/heart began to be better, and I really believe that it was lack of sunlight that about drove me nuts.

I live in the cave again. I keep the curtains parted so buddy the cave plant can get sunlight. My job forces me to be outside and active, the 2 things that I find are critical to my mental health. It also helps by forcing me to keep a regular sleep schedule and forcing me to have contact with other humans 5 days a week.

My life is far from perfect. Today I am having to work hard to quell fears inside my head that have me all but paralyzed. But I know now to get out and do my 40 minute fast walk, no matter how cruddy I feel, and I know this will pass eventually.

[OceanBound]

To Bam and Jamdls,

I think the best way to meet non-drinking buddies it to find groups related to your hobbies: like a class in an adult education center, a local group, whatever. You'll get to practice your hobby and meet some interesting people with whom alcohol doesn't have to be the point of connection. My 2c.

[Eroica]

Hey Bam.. are you feeling better? Are things going better for you?

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by Eroica

Hey Bam.. are you feeling better? Are things going better for you?

Thanks.

I've been okay this weekend. I've taken a lot of pictures...I'll probably go out soon and take a few more to kill off the battery so I can have it ready to go for tomorrow.

I'm taking things as calmly as I can...and I get away from people when I need to.

[digderidoo]

Bam,

I have found it difficult as to what to say on this thread. I think if someone really wants to drink then they will and there's nothing we can say to stop them.

The only thing i would say is to take one day at a time. I know for myself i sometimes forget that and starting worrying about what may happen tomorrow, next week, next month or next year.

For me things have got better since i stopped drinking, so i find it difficult to relate to posts where someone says that they haven't. I have had my s**t moments, but as a whole i feel life is better without the drink.

My thoughts are with you, i hope you find some peace.

Paul

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by doorknob

Can you describe the pain?

And... I'm not convinced that life has to have a point. In fact, I don't think it does.

I can describe it because I have experienced it. It is the pain of being consciously separated from the whole (you can define the whole however you like).

It is the suffering of resisting what is.

It is the dull ache of unconsciousness. It is feeling empty even when I feel good. It is the pain of not having a purpose in life.

Irish is right. The problem is within and the solution is within. You run from the problem, you run from the solution. The pain does not originate from without and you won't find the solution out there either. In fact the more you resist and the more you try to avoid it or fix it, the more you suffer.

[Freepath]

REBT or rational emotive behavioral therapy asserts that the source of most emotional disturbances grows from irrational beliefs. In many instances, the best way to handle it is to get in an argument with the emotions and the triggers of these emotions. Please look at these statements when you are not depressed.

Therapy isn't helping.

You go to your therapist, you describe your problems, you get a chance to vent and to express how you feel, you get help and support, and it isn’t helping?

Medicines are not helping.

So, you run down to the pharmacy, you put your money down to pick up some pills which have been evaluated by the FDA as safe an effective. Do you not notice a difference? If you really don’t, then why bother taking them? If the medicines keep you from drinking, they are doing some good, in my opinion.

Nothing works.

Tink! Did you hear that? That was the needle on my BS meter pegging itself to the maximum position.

The pain never goes away.

Then why is it a rollercoaster ride? …and all you can do is wait for your mood to go on a sharp upswing AGAIN? So, maybe a more accurate statement is that the pain comes and goes, but it seems to keep coming back. What causes the pain? What makes it go away? The next time the pain comes, write down what happened; write down what you are thinking; write down what other people said.

I cannot live like this any more.

Sure you can. Everyone does. We, as addicts and alcoholics, tend to over estimate the horrible nature of fairly common and benign things, and we tend to have a low tolerance for frustrating events. Just because you are human, you have emotions and you get depressed, doesn’t necessarily mean that you cannot continue to live. Every person alive knows what it means to be depressed. Perhaps not to the extent that you are depressed, but this leads nicely to my next point.

How can I make these feelings go away?

You have control over your emotions, probably more than you appreciate. The next time you are depressed, write down what seemed to make you feel that way. Then the following time, when the same situation occurs, control your emotion. Give it a try.

Instead of thinking: He hates me.

Think: How sad that he is struggling with hatefulness


Instead of thinking: That b@stard needs to die.

Think: Since I cannot change his behavior, I am indifferent to his hostility.


Instead of thinking: Everything is all screwed up.

Think: It is too bad that this situation is bad. I’ll either fix it or lump it.


Instead of thinking: This is pi5sing me off.

Think: Why am I allowing myself to get upset?


Instead of thinking: I am powerless over this depression.

Think: People have control over destructive emotions, especially when they challenge irrational beliefs.

There is a biological component to this as well. The emotional centers of your brain are closer to the nerves of your eyes and ears than the intellectual or cognitive center. This is a survival mechanism. So, when a madman walks into the room with a gun you say “quick run!” or “quick, kill him!” and you don’t say “gee, that guy needs to floss” or “If I were him I wouldn’t wear that shirt with those shoes.”

So, we feel before we think. You can develop the habit of checking the validity of your feelings. You can dispute irrational beliefs and replace them with rational beliefs. I have struggled with depression myself, and I know what it means to feel that with extreme intensity and hopelessness. REBT has helped me, and I hope that it can help you, too.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by Freepath

You go to your therapist, you describe your problems, you get a chance to vent and to express how you feel, you get help and support, and it isn’t helping?

No, it's not. I have a session on Wednesday...I'm thinking about making it my last one.

Originally Posted by Freepath

So, you run down to the pharmacy, you put your money down to pick up some pills which have been evaluated by the FDA as safe an effective. Do you not notice a difference? If you really don’t, then why bother taking them? If the medicines keep you from drinking, they are doing some good, in my opinion.

Why bother taking them? I'm supposed to give them time to work. I'll stop taking them if I don't see an improvment in the next couple of weeks.

Originally Posted by Freepath

Tink! Did you hear that? That was the needle on my BS meter pegging itself to the maximum position.

I'm not geting what I need. I'm so lonely...and hollow inside. Some things I do helps a little...but nothing gets rid of this feeling. It's constant...no matter what my mood it's there in the background.

Originally Posted by Freepath

Then why is it a rollercoaster ride? …and all you can do is wait for your mood to go on a sharp upswing AGAIN? So, maybe a more accurate statement is that the pain comes and goes, but it seems to keep coming back. What causes the pain? What makes it go away? The next time the pain comes, write down what happened; write down what you are thinking; write down what other people said.

I do write down what happens. Shoot...I don't need to....It's the same things...and nothing changes. And before you ask, I don't know how to fix it. That's why I'm in this shitstorm.

Originally Posted by Freepath

Sure you can. Everyone does. We, as addicts and alcoholics, tend to over estimate the horrible nature of fairly common and benign things, and we tend to have a low tolerance for frustrating events. Just because you are human, you have emotions and you get depressed, doesn’t necessarily mean that you cannot continue to live. Every person alive knows what it means to be depressed. Perhaps not to the extent that you are depressed, but this leads nicely to my next point.

Living to survive is not living. I don't care for the pain. I don't like my life. I don't like who I am...and a lot of who I am I cannot change. People say things like if you can't change things, then change your perception. I don't know how to do that. For example, I have terrible skin. Bad acne...and I'm almost 30. I can find no way to feel good about that. And I see it all the time so I'm constanly reminded of it. I've been to a dermatologist...and...surprise...nothing works. My skin is ugly. People do not like acne...and I know why. It's repulsive. I'm living proof. How the f*ck do I sugar-coat that?

Originally Posted by Freepath

You have control over your emotions, probably more than you appreciate. The next time you are depressed, write down what seemed to make you feel that way. Then the following time, when the same situation occurs, control your emotion. Give it a try.

I've tried that. Several times. Epic FAIL.

Originally Posted by Freepath

Instead of thinking: He hates me.

Think: How sad that he is struggling with hatefulness


Instead of thinking: That b@stard needs to die.

Think: Since I cannot change his behavior, I am indifferent to his hostility.


Instead of thinking: Everything is all screwed up.

Think: It is too bad that this situation is bad. I’ll either fix it or lump it.


Instead of thinking: This is pi5sing me off.

Think: Why am I allowing myself to get upset?


Instead of thinking: I am powerless over this depression.

Think: People have control over destructive emotions, especially when they challenge irrational beliefs.

Most of what I get upset about has to do with me. I don't like myself. I have never liked myself. I had this realization tonight. I don't know how to love myself. All of my faults...all of the things about me that make me socially inept...I don't know how to fix those things. I don't know how to be at peace with my awkwardness.



I feel like I have no way out. It's a terrible place to be. Most of the time I'm barely hanging on. I don't tell my family how bad it is...I don't want them to worry. I wish I could talk about this more and in detail here, but suicide is pretty much a banned topic. I've looked for places on the net to discuss this and I've come up with a whole lotta nothing.

I've noticed that whatever is wrong with me has been getting worse. Pretty soon I'll be too far gone to care.

[Dee74]

I've noticed that whatever is wrong with me has been getting worse. Pretty soon I'll be too far gone to care.

then, with all due respect to other viewpoints, you need to find a better therapist and different meds, Bam.

I like you - I think you're a great person - but I can't tell you how to love or like yourself, or not feel awkward - but I know that giving up gives you zero chance of ever finding out how.

D

[Bamboozle]

How do I "fire" my therapist? I'm not good at that sort of thing. I'm passive...and I'm sure it will be an awkward situation. Therapy started out okay...and then it just went stagnant. It could be me...I mean, look at my posts here. I'm not well and I know it...what should I be doing in therapy, anyway? I'm lost.

My mind is all over the place and I just want to stop thinking about everything.

I know, I can see everyone shaking their heads here, but I don't have insurance and first appointments with therapist are expensive. I simply don't have the funds to shuffle through several to find one that may work.

I'm getting tired of this. I need to save up my money to do things like buy a car so I can get a better job so that I can move into my own place. I have bills that are past due...like everyone else here...and I want to get caught up.

I don't know what I'm going to do.

[Aysha]

Hey Bam..I am just jumpin on the end here.

I get like that all the time. WTF is the point.
I get clean and I am still miserable. Might as well be miserable and be Messed up. At least it takes some of the edge off.

I still get like that at times.
I think I am learning with myself tho is that my happiness has to come within myself somewhere.
I have to want it and make it. It isnt goin to come in any pill or pipe or bottle.
And even tho it seems like it does for a short time. Thats all it is. A masking..a front for a vey short time.
And using only adds to it. You cant be F***ed uip all the time. Reality has to hit once in awhile. And then what happens?
Faced with some really overwhelming **** that has just been buried and added to.

I am not in a good place this past week.
If I were to use to escape. Right now would be it. But I'm not going to and and I am tyring like hell not to either.
I usually get high to relax and have fun. Thank God I dont everytime something went wrong. I would be dead.
I know the point for me is that I am so tired of feeling liek **** from using. Not doin anything with myself. Not being responsible or productive in any way.
No progress. No meaning. Nothing. Might as well just not exist if all I am goin to do is get high all the time.

I fight this **** everyday. Sometimes I give in. But I get right back up again. And sometimes that seems so impossible and I get so tired of it I just cant go on anymore.
But that doesnt last long for me.
I cant just give up. Its not in me to go out like that.
My happiness is in knowing tried. I wanted to try. And that I gave an effort.
My happiness is in not building a pile of consequences behind my addiciton anymore.
Life is real dull compared to what it use to be.
But it is alot more calm and sless stressful if I really look at it and think zabout it.
I have gotten to a point where I am just so tired of all the BS. The emotional and physical and mental BS that comes with the drugs.
I cant take it.
And I havent got it down by any means. I relapse every couple months. But I know I did wrong. I learn what I can from it. And I know I didnt do it becasue I gave up on myself.
And no matter what. I always habe to try.
I may go to my grave trying. But its better than just say F it all and letting it win.
I cant do that.
Things take time Bam. And it takes alot of work inside ourselves.
And of course its goin to be harder to get back to where we need to be.
But good things always are.
Thats what makes them worth it.
I hope you snap out of it soon and get some serious help for those suicidal thoughts.
That **** is npothing to play with.
I dont care how serious you think you are or not.
It is not right to even play with that idea.
Thinking of you. An dyou know you have alot of people here who care alot about you.
I would be asking myself why I am not happy. What is making me so unhappy. What is it that will make me truly content. And what do I have to do to get there.
It isnt that hard really.

[Aysha]

And I want to add that you can get help from social services. Especoially with emergency situations liek this.
If your just goin to give up on being happy. Why not gibe up on trying to save money and bills too?
Whats the point of that? If you dont want to live than why do any of that?
Think about that.
You have to take responsibility and control somewhere here Bam.
Sometimes you gotta say F it and do what you gotta do to get right.
If you keep goin o like this. Your not goin to get better. And you may not be around to drive a car or move into a new place.
You have to fight..I mean literally fight every way possible if you want results. Noon eis goin to do it for you. No therapist or Dr can fix you.
I hope you dont take that wrong or harsh. I care alot about you.
You make me laugh and you are an awesome chick.
I know you got it in you to do better.

[Gypsy Feet]

You know Bam, you have a lot more experience with depression than most. Maybe when you are feeling really low, you could reach out to some of the people suffering so much on these boards. Talk about what helps you, like your pictures, even if it isn't a cure all. Even if you don't see the point for yourself, I think you still have a lot of wisdom to offer others here.

[redshift]

I don't know you, but I know what you're describing... and I am sorry you feel that way, because it is crushing.

It sounds to me like your loneliness is a big factor here. Could you join a photo club or hiking club and meet new people? It seems that's where you find some of your 'point.'

After years of ducking phone calls and turning down invitations, it surprised me (though in hindsight it shouldn't have) to find myself in the basement (literally, and mentally) all alone. There's a way out of that basement, but you gotta take those steps to get up and out. Phoning a friend just to say hi, or making idle chit-chat with a stranger at the coffee shop has gone a long way to me just feeling less alone in the world. Or just look up at the sun, close your eyes, and smile. Or, if it's your thing, go to meetings.

It can feel like pulling teeth in the beginning, but I truly believe that mental well-being has a lot to do with regular positive social interaction. I hope you're doing better today, and wish you the best of luck going forward!

[jamdls]

Aw Bam

I remember all too clearly feeling similar to what you describe and still occassionally have repeats of those days, I'm sorry, I'd be happy to give you my email or yahoo messenger address for any time you want to talk. I agree with what Lisa said
"You know Bam, you have a lot more experience with depression than most. Maybe when you are feeling really low, you could reach out to some of the people suffering so much on these boards. Talk about what helps you, like your pictures, even if it isn't a cure all. Even if you don't see the point for yourself, I think you still have a lot of wisdom to offer others here."

I was a victim of incest, and it wasn't until I started to talk with others who had similar experiences that I realized I was a SURVIVOR; others stories seemed so much worse than mine and this helped me to heal. Everyone that is on this board has a bad/sad story and are always willing to listen.
Dont give up.
J

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by chiynita

No therapist or Dr can fix you.

I know. No one can help me. And I don't know how to help myself.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by redshift

...I truly believe that mental well-being has a lot to do with regular positive social interaction.

redshift, you just hit the nail on the head. Positive social interation is exactly what I need right now...and exactly what I have very little of.

I am socially awkward...and I'm not comfortable with myself. I've been hiding for a while. I would like to get a girlfriend...or at the very least some companionship, but I don't know where to look around here. There are a couple of bars...but that's a bad idea. I suppose I could try the personals...but that creeps me out big time.

*sigh* I need to move.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by jamdls

I was a victim of incest, and it wasn't until I started to talk with others who had similar experiences that I realized I was a SURVIVOR; others stories seemed so much worse than mine and this helped me to heal. Everyone that is on this board has a bad/sad story and are always willing to listen.
Dont give up.
J

(((jamdls)))


When I hear about how so many people here have had worse experiences in life, I feel guilty for feeling the way I do. I don't have a reason to be depressed. I just am. Sure, there are things in my life that suck and need to be improved upon...but so many others, like you, jamdls, have been through far worse.

Originally Posted by uglyeyes

You know Bam, you have a lot more experience with depression than most. Maybe when you are feeling really low, you could reach out to some of the people suffering so much on these boards. Talk about what helps you, like your pictures, even if it isn't a cure all. Even if you don't see the point for yourself, I think you still have a lot of wisdom to offer others here.

Thanks, UE.

[Bamboozle]

Thanks to every single person who replied to this thread. I still feel lost, but I appreciate the support. I have therapy tomorrow and I have no idea what I'm going to say. I still don't know what I'm going to do.

[Aysha]

Never feel bad foir how you feel Bam. We al have our own personal hell.
I hate it when I am told..Well it can always be worse. Others havce it worse than you.
They have nothing to do with me and how I feel. And it seems more like my issues arent worth anything.
Sometimes there just isnt any good reason why we feel like we do.
I am goin through that now. I have alot of anger and frustration and I really dont know why.
I think it has alot to do with myself inside. How I am feelin about myself.
So with me. I tend to take it out on others when my problem is really with me.
I dont know why that is. But it is.
I need to change me inside. I don know that.
There just is something thats holdonh me back from being happy with anything.
I think you need to find a therapisty or whatever that your are comfortable enough to speak up to.
It sounds liek your just smiling and noddin with this one.
You did this with your Dr with the heart palpitations. You didnt speak up. When you did you got reslults.
You gotta voice yourself. Even if your wrong. You gotta make your thoughnt s and ideas known. Then you can eliminate the possibilty of what if on your part.
You need a confidence boost.
I have thought about ways of meeting people too. I am not into bars. Personals creep me out too.
I am really very shy in real life so I have a hard time doin that as well.
To meet someone normally I mam ok. But on a more personal level gets me feelin all weird.
And I know its because I am unsure of myself.
You are a cool chick. I liked you out the gate. Like I have said a milolion times. Any girl thats ok with farts is awesome. That to me says you are real and down to earth and easy goin. Thats what I look for in people. Not all that superficial BS.
I hope you feel better soon. I wish you seen what I see just from what I have learned here about you.
Hang in there Bam.
I

[jamdls]

Originally Posted by chiynita

Like I have said a milolion times. Any girl thats ok with farts is awesome.

LOL that is something I've never heard before. Made me laugh.

It seems to me that a majority of addicts/alcoholics are that way largely due to low self esteem and when we stop our drug of choice we're left with what we were trying to run from. All my life no matter what terrible thing happened my mother would say to me "at least you've got your looks" like that was supposed to make everything ok, it didn't help with my self esteem at all. Then when I was 50 I learned I had skin cancer on my face and they were going to have remove a chunk of my lip, I didn't know who I was w/o being "the cute one" and that (and being a drunk) sent me into such a depression I tried and nearly suceeded in ending my life. Well I quit drinking, and had the cancer removed and began to realize that I have a lot more to offer than once being a pretty face. I no longer define myself but what I think others see because I'm 52, I've gained weight, and yes my lip is slightly deformed but the Judy I see on the inside is a whole lot more beautiful than anything I ever imagined was on the outside. I haven't found anyone to appreciate the new improved Judy but I haven't really tried either because I think it's important to "fix" ourselves in order to have successful relationships.

[meditation]

I had post partum depression and IT was neverending black fog. I had absolutely nothing to be depressed about. I truly do believe that hormone levels have much to do with how depressed or UNdepressed I feel. I get bad pms. When I have bad pms I hate myself. I don't like my body or my soul. It all factors into hormones.

I don't know that antidepressants cure hormones but maybe seeing a good gyn doc would make a difference.

Also I hate exercise but I have to have it or I go nuts spiralling down into black negative thoughts. I have to have lots of open space in the sun. I have to be outside at sunset or be with people, doesn't matter how happy I am sunset brings on crushing hate thoughts.

Also I am not offering you medical advice but my daughter and I take micro retin A ointment and it is the only thing we've found that works any on skin problems. I've tried them all but on the bright side I don't look my age due to my oily skin. I look 10 years younger. There is that plus I think going to a dermatologist which you said you did but one more try eh? Also I went to a plastic surgeon for some work done on the acne scars and you can't hardly tell anymore.

I think the problems are all bearable and doable it's just for me when I get on one negative mind set everything that even only mildly bugged me starts to be sucked into that vortex till I am thinking nothing and I mean nothing ever will be better.
That is called black and white thinking and not seeing things in grades as in everything is all GOOD or everything is all BAD and nothing is half way. That is why perception is so hard to change. I have to constantly tell myself that things aren't as crappy as I make them out and everything has some solution and take it bite by bite and it's all do-able..... you're seeing the whole picture BAM instead of tackling it in small chunks. I really do care about my secular folks and Bam you've been really good to me. Things don't have to be crappy and I want you to not feel so bad. Much love to you.

[Bamboozle]

Wow, medi, jam,chiy....Thank you so much.

Thanks everyone. I would like to write some replies...but I feel it's best to digest what was posted here. These responses are really good. Even if I don't figure it out...I hope one of the lurkers out there can find this thread to be useful.

[redshift]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

redshift, you just hit the nail on the head. Positive social interation is exactly what I need right now...and exactly what I have very little of.

I am socially awkward...and I'm not comfortable with myself. I've been hiding for a while. I would like to get a girlfriend...or at the very least some companionship, but I don't know where to look around here. There are a couple of bars...but that's a bad idea. I suppose I could try the personals...but that creeps me out big time.

*sigh* I need to move.

I hear ya... I'm not going to say it's easy, because it's tough. Especially when we're used to being in a comfort zone by ourselves.

But by pushing your comfort zone little by little, and sticking to it, you'd be surprised how quickly you become OK with situations you really didn't like before. I would recommend finding a few good places where you can just hang out and build that comfortability. Coffee shop, or quirky bookstore maybe? Don't just go to shop and leave... hang around, listen to people talk, how they interact. More likely than not you'll overhear something interesting that could be a great conversation starter. Or maybe some informal type of group meeting, like a photowalk or art/museum tour or something? No pressure, just have fun!

Remember that just like sobriety, solid relationships and friendships are built over time... I know we all want that hug right when we need it. And you'll get it! Just give yourself that chance, go have some sober fun with people, and before you know it you'll be so much more comfortable. I'm pulling for you!