This is not AA-bashing, I swear - Page 2 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Dee74 · 10-12-2008, 08:44 PM

Most of us thought only a handful of people know already Gneiss, but I hope in this case you're right. It's not nice to be the 'town drunk".

But frankly? if you want to make certain that everyone comes to know?
answer that beer call.

It really doesn't get better. It gets way worse.

Like I said before - act now.
Today's better than tomorrow, Gneiss.

Ananda said it all really - if you can't get your head around it and AA doesn't work for you cos of the God thing? Ditch it. AA wasn't for me either - no harm no foul.

But it's up to you to work hard and find something that does work for you. This is your life you're dealing with here.
In the absense of any other plan, 'I will not drink today' is a good start.

D

gneiss · 10-13-2008, 12:29 AM

I was referring to my drug use when I said only a few people knew, and I'm absolutely sure of that. Alcohol is not illegal so if people know you drink it's no big deal. But if they know you snort coke? You might have the cops knocking on your door, hence I was extremely careful about keeping that under wraps.

The drinking? Ugh. I don't even want to think about how many people have figured that out. Friends who even live in other states have asked me how much I've been drinking... I still hide the worst of it.

It's 1:30 in the morning, and at 12:15 I woke up my housemate and told him he had to take his beer out of the refrigerator and get it out of the house, I'd pay him for it if he just threw it out or whatever, but it can't be here. This of course led to a lot of questions, and for once in my life I decided I just had to be honest about this or it would never get better. And much to my shock and relief.. he did. I was expecting him to tell me I was over-reacting or something, but he was cool. He even let me cry, which he usually gets really uncomfortable about. He said, "It doesn't matter how much you are drinking or what I think. If you think it's a problem, obviously there's something about your drinking that worries you and therefore you need to stop. And if I have to sacrifice a 12-pack it's the least I can do." And with that he poured it all out.

I didn't drink. I can do this. I made it through Day One. One day at a time doesn't seem to work for me though. It's more like, can I make it to lunch? Well if I can make it to lunch then certainly the time from lunch to dinner is manageable. After dinner? Homework. Pour it on, time to study. I have exams in 2 weeks. I'm not going to drink today.

Dee74 · 10-13-2008, 12:38 AM

sorry for slightly getting the wrong end of the stick - must have misread it - good luck with your exams

D

tesquizito · 10-13-2008, 12:56 AM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned anything other than AA or (take what you need) AA.

I started in AA, did my 90 and 90, I was frustrated that there was no other literature other than the Big Book (and the supplemental AA literature which was based on it). I got some silly answers from my sponsor as to why *only* the Big Book was relevant to my sobriety (salvation).

In any case, I'm in SMART now, been for the last ~7 months. They have a very large recommended reading list of current books in publication. It makes a lot more sense to me to get a wide variety of research, perspectives, and approaches...and use those as tools rather than a single book, which is quite dated.

There are a number of secular sobriety programs out there, there should be a sticky at the top of this sub-forum, I think?

Dee74 · 10-13-2008, 01:50 AM

I don't do 'no steenking programme' so I can't recommend any LOL
I recommend ppl look at as many as possible - they all work for somebody

There's a sticky in the alchoholics forum
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html (Recovery Programs)

D

ananda · 10-13-2008, 06:12 AM

I somehow saw people suggesting things other than AA...but yeah it would be good to reference people to other options for groups....

Tesq...perhaps you could share about how you use the tools you use to stay sober that are secular in nature....It sure helps me to hear how people do that

gneiss · 10-13-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee74

sorry for slightly getting the wrong end of the stick - must have misread it - good luck with your exams

D

No problem. Just setting the record straight... though I admit, it's always possible that no matter how careful you are, news has been leaked somewhere along the line.

**Alera** · 10-14-2008, 11:31 AM

We have a great list of programs in the sticky thread Secular Web here in this forum. It includes several secular programs.

I personally work SMART but I know folks that have gotten help from SOS/LifeRing as well as other groups.

I do online meetings since we don't have face to face SMART where I live. The meetings are great. We spend the time going over the tools and situations where we will confront life and how to apply the tools to these situations. SMART also has a great beginners online meeting which I personally recommend for those who want to see if it is a program that will fit their needs.

I am not a big fan of DIY, simply because I feel that I need a program to undo all the damage that using has done. For example, when I deal with a bad situation at work I used to reach for my drugs. I need an alternate way of thinking to deal with the situation. My program gives me that.

Off my soapbox, hope my experience was of some help.

gneiss · 10-14-2008, 11:10 PM

It's really starting to amaze me that when I work up the nerve to tell a friend that I have an alcohol/drug problem, almost all of them have said they had/have a problem as well. Could be anything from "I used to close down the bars 7 days a week and realized I had to stop" to "I was addicted to meth for 3 years." Wow. It's possible the "takes one to know one" phenomenon is leading me to tell people who-- on some level-- I recognize as addicts. Or I don't have the highest quality friends in the world. Or addiction is more common than anyone knows.

Bamboozle · 10-15-2008, 06:57 AM

Hello, G.

In my opinion, I think addiction is quite common, whether by substances or by behavior. It's scary....I've met so many people with problems...some hide it better than others. Maybe that's the difference.

Maybe it's easier for me to focus on others with similar problems.

ananda · 10-15-2008, 07:50 AM

Hey bam...are you still goopy???? I'm trying to decide if it's safe to hug you

doorknob · 10-15-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bam

I am a hot, steaming, stinky, goopy, bacteria-filled lump of humanity. That is all for now.

That must make me dumpster juice.. sweet, sweet dumpster juice...

gneiss · 10-15-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doorknob

That must make me dumpster juice.. sweet, sweet dumpster juice...

Ewwwwwwwwww. Hahaha. I worked as a housekeeper for a while. That's really funny until said dumpster juice has leaked out and soaked into your shoes.

joinedintime · 10-15-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlrgs

Before I go on let me clarify that admitting we are powerless over alcohol is not a lifelong commitment - it simply means at this moment in time we don't have the needed resources to address a specific problem by ourselves.

tlrgs,
That is a very interesting concept to me for a couple reasons. One, because I'm struggling with it myself and two, simply because it's counter to the what I would consider to be the overall mind-share of SR and "recovery community".

Original thought, or did you discover that concept somewhere?

Dee74 · 10-15-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Before I go on let me clarify that admitting we are powerless over alcohol is not a lifelong commitment - it simply means at this moment in time we don't have the needed resources to address a specific problem by ourselves.

ok I missed this. LOL.

If I read you right...you're saying powerlessness is lacking the strength or resources needed to combat our drinking problem on our own.

Fair enough, but that's not the usual definition of powerlessness is it? (I'm not an AAer so feel free to correct me) and you'd have to be careful people don't apply your thoughts to the usual definition IMO.

For me being powerless over my consumption of alcohol is a lifelong commitment I'm afraid - I've retaken the 'am I still powerless/am I still an alcoholic' test enough times to know the result never changes, and I believe never will.

To think or hope otherwise would be courting disaster for me.

The successful changes in my life have come about not because I'm addressing my specific problem of drinking, as in my past failed attempts, but because this time I've been addressing the way I live my life - in which drinking became a maladjusted method of coping with various problems, and then an addiction. For me it puts my drinking into a perspective. Seems to be working so far.

I'm happy to admit I'm powerless over alcohol - it's no moral weakness or reflection on my character - but these days I'm nowhere near powerless over taking that first drink.

D

Bamboozle · 10-15-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee74

The successful changes in my life have come about not because I'm addressing my specific problem of drinking, as in my past failed attempts, but because this time I've been addressing the way I live my life - in which drinking became a maladjusted method of coping with various problems, and then an addiction. For me it puts my drinking into a perspective. Seems to be working so far.

Thanks, Dee.

ananda, I'm still goopy...

...I'm also a little snotty.

Anyone have a tissue?

ananda · 10-15-2008, 07:13 PM

**Alera** · 10-17-2008, 12:29 PM

Thanks for the tissue Ananda. I almost sneezed on my keyboard (still got that cold) and instead starting laughing hard. I needed that laugh.

gneiss · 10-17-2008, 12:34 PM

The Thanks button didn't quite convey how much I love that tissue box. I would so buy one.

ExxWino · 10-18-2008, 08:00 AM

Hello Gneiss! I totally understand the things you are going through. I quit drinking over a year ago. I'm an atheist and I knew there was no way AA would work for me. I have never been to an AA meeting and never had a desire to attend one.

I discovered the rational recovery website (I'm not allowed to post the link, but you can find them easily) and what they said totally made sense to me. Using AVRT I learned that I was not powerless over alchohol. In fact, I am the only one who has power over it. My "higher power" is the non-lizardlike portion of my own brain. I just had to learn how to get it back in control, which actually was pretty easy. Once you understand how your own brain works, the temptations are much easier to deal with.

I went through alcohol withdrawal - extreme anxiety, palpitations, emotional lability, shakes, but they tapered off after a few days.

Now I cannot for the life of me imagine putting anything alcoholic in my mouth. Alcohol is a non-issue for me now. I still have my same friends - in fact I go to wine dinners with them - I'm just the automatic designated driver. I NEVER told my friends the real reason I stopped drinking. I told everyone that any amount of alcohol started making me wake up at 3am and not be able to go back to sleep, so I had to give it up. "My metabolism must have changed or something!" is what I said. Everyone seemed to accept that without question. If they thought anything else, they kept it to themselves. Unlike you, I am unable to admit to people face-to-face that I ever had a problem with alcohol. This board is my only outlet for that stuff.

I didn't discover this website until two months ago - I didn't really talk to anyone about quitting while I was doing it. I discovered this website while trying to help my husband quit. Once one partner quits, the other pretty much has to, too.

The thing that amazes me about AA is that the people who go there are locked up in this "one day at a time" stuff, when in reality it only takes a few weeks to get over the daily desire to have a drink. Then the times when you think "it would be great to have a drink" get further and further apart. Eventually you rarely think about it at all. In fact, people who drink start looking ridiculous to you (but you have to be careful not to let them know you think that)!

I drank for more than 40 years, and before I quit I kept the massive amounts I was drinking pretty quiet. I had an alcohol meter and would blow in it to see what my level was as I was getting ready to go to work in the morning. I'd chew gum and make some comment about "coffee breath". Pretty bad, huh?

So, check out Rational Recovery. They are pretty much anti-AA over there, but just ignore all that stuff. AA isn't for me, but if it works for people - they should do whatever works for them.

Good luck!

ExxWino · 10-18-2008, 08:40 AM

I'd like to add one thing to my last post:

I really think that one of the biggest reasons people have so much trouble quitting drinking is this: Most people don't want to quit drinking. They want to quit drinking as much as they are drinking NOW. They want to go back to those days when they could have one margarita with their nachos, or one or two glasses of wine with dinner.

Unfortunately, the central nervous system doesn't work that way. Once you have had enough alcohol over a certain period of time (different for everyone), the brain suddenly says "OK, now I need this stuff to function." And once you have reached that point, it doesn't switch back to normal. Maybe one day we'll have a pill that will reboot the system, but it doesn't exist for now.

So....once you have crossed that line, you have to be OK with NEVER DRINKING AGAIN. Ever. Once you are truly OK with knowing that you and alcohol are through FOREVER, it's actually pretty easy to quit.

ananda · 10-18-2008, 10:05 AM

thank you SOOO much Ex!!!!

you really made me think...When I had been sober 7 years I never thought about drinking...it just wasn't a thought i had in answer to any problem, but then again, once i decided to "drink during hocky games" suddenly it became the answer to every problem again!

I've been sober about 14 or so months, and I don't think of drinking every day...I still think about it sometimes, but less....and it will seem like less and less of an answer the more i stay sober i find other answers that work!

Thanks again adn pleas poste more about rational recovery and your recovery.

10-12-2008, 08:44 PM	#26 (permalink)
Dee74 you did NOT just say that.... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: far out. Posts: 8,902	Most of us thought only a handful of people know already Gneiss, but I hope in this case you're right. It's not nice to be the 'town drunk". But frankly? if you want to make certain that everyone comes to know? answer that beer call. It really doesn't get better. It gets way worse. Like I said before - act now. Today's better than tomorrow, Gneiss. Ananda said it all really - if you can't get your head around it and AA doesn't work for you cos of the God thing? Ditch it. AA wasn't for me either - no harm no foul. But it's up to you to work hard and find something that does work for you. This is your life you're dealing with here. In the absense of any other plan, 'I will not drink today' is a good start. D __________________ 'Whatever gets you to the light, it's alright, it's alright...' John Lennon

10-13-2008, 12:29 AM	#27 (permalink)
gneiss It's pronounced "Nice" :) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somewhere out there... Posts: 89	I was referring to my drug use when I said only a few people knew, and I'm absolutely sure of that. Alcohol is not illegal so if people know you drink it's no big deal. But if they know you snort coke? You might have the cops knocking on your door, hence I was extremely careful about keeping that under wraps. The drinking? Ugh. I don't even want to think about how many people have figured that out. Friends who even live in other states have asked me how much I've been drinking... I still hide the worst of it. It's 1:30 in the morning, and at 12:15 I woke up my housemate and told him he had to take his beer out of the refrigerator and get it out of the house, I'd pay him for it if he just threw it out or whatever, but it can't be here. This of course led to a lot of questions, and for once in my life I decided I just had to be honest about this or it would never get better. And much to my shock and relief.. he did. I was expecting him to tell me I was over-reacting or something, but he was cool. He even let me cry, which he usually gets really uncomfortable about. He said, "It doesn't matter how much you are drinking or what I think. If you think it's a problem, obviously there's something about your drinking that worries you and therefore you need to stop. And if I have to sacrifice a 12-pack it's the least I can do." And with that he poured it all out. I didn't drink. I can do this. I made it through Day One. One day at a time doesn't seem to work for me though. It's more like, can I make it to lunch? Well if I can make it to lunch then certainly the time from lunch to dinner is manageable. After dinner? Homework. Pour it on, time to study. I have exams in 2 weeks. I'm not going to drink today. __________________ The first thing in the human personality that dissolves in alcohol is dignity.

10-13-2008, 12:38 AM	#28 (permalink)
Dee74 you did NOT just say that.... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: far out. Posts: 8,902	sorry for slightly getting the wrong end of the stick - must have misread it - good luck with your exams D __________________ 'Whatever gets you to the light, it's alright, it's alright...' John Lennon

10-13-2008, 12:56 AM	#29 (permalink)
tesquizito I am McLovin' Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 95	I'm surprised no one has mentioned anything other than AA or (take what you need) AA. I started in AA, did my 90 and 90, I was frustrated that there was no other literature other than the Big Book (and the supplemental AA literature which was based on it). I got some silly answers from my sponsor as to why only the Big Book was relevant to my sobriety (salvation). In any case, I'm in SMART now, been for the last ~7 months. They have a very large recommended reading list of current books in publication. It makes a lot more sense to me to get a wide variety of research, perspectives, and approaches...and use those as tools rather than a single book, which is quite dated. There are a number of secular sobriety programs out there, there should be a sticky at the top of this sub-forum, I think? __________________

10-13-2008, 01:50 AM	#30 (permalink)
Dee74 you did NOT just say that.... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: far out. Posts: 8,902	I don't do 'no steenking programme' so I can't recommend any LOL I recommend ppl look at as many as possible - they all work for somebody There's a sticky in the alchoholics forum http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html (Recovery Programs) D __________________ 'Whatever gets you to the light, it's alright, it's alright...' John Lennon

10-13-2008, 06:12 AM	#31 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 6,211	I somehow saw people suggesting things other than AA...but yeah it would be good to reference people to other options for groups.... Tesq...perhaps you could share about how you use the tools you use to stay sober that are secular in nature....It sure helps me to hear how people do that

10-14-2008, 11:31 AM	#33 (permalink)
Alera SR's SMART Goth Mod Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,899	We have a great list of programs in the sticky thread Secular Web here in this forum. It includes several secular programs. I personally work SMART but I know folks that have gotten help from SOS/LifeRing as well as other groups. I do online meetings since we don't have face to face SMART where I live. The meetings are great. We spend the time going over the tools and situations where we will confront life and how to apply the tools to these situations. SMART also has a great beginners online meeting which I personally recommend for those who want to see if it is a program that will fit their needs. I am not a big fan of DIY, simply because I feel that I need a program to undo all the damage that using has done. For example, when I deal with a bad situation at work I used to reach for my drugs. I need an alternate way of thinking to deal with the situation. My program gives me that. Off my soapbox, hope my experience was of some help. __________________ Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 Alera The addiction will protect itself ... AT ALL COSTS.

10-14-2008, 11:10 PM	#34 (permalink)
gneiss It's pronounced "Nice" :) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somewhere out there... Posts: 89	It's really starting to amaze me that when I work up the nerve to tell a friend that I have an alcohol/drug problem, almost all of them have said they had/have a problem as well. Could be anything from "I used to close down the bars 7 days a week and realized I had to stop" to "I was addicted to meth for 3 years." Wow. It's possible the "takes one to know one" phenomenon is leading me to tell people who-- on some level-- I recognize as addicts. Or I don't have the highest quality friends in the world. Or addiction is more common than anyone knows. __________________ The first thing in the human personality that dissolves in alcohol is dignity.

10-15-2008, 06:57 AM	#35 (permalink)
Bamboozle Watch out...it'll fool ya! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Currently in a butt-support device Posts: 883 Blog Entries: 6	Hello, G. In my opinion, I think addiction is quite common, whether by substances or by behavior. It's scary....I've met so many people with problems...some hide it better than others. Maybe that's the difference. Maybe it's easier for me to focus on others with similar problems. __________________ What I do isn't what I want for myself. I am not my job. I am a hot, steaming, stinky, goopy, bacteria-filled lump of humanity. That is all for now.

10-15-2008, 07:50 AM	#36 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 6,211	Hey bam...are you still goopy???? I'm trying to decide if it's safe to hug you

10-15-2008, 07:13 PM	#42 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 6,211

10-17-2008, 12:29 PM	#43 (permalink)
Alera SR's SMART Goth Mod Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,899	Thanks for the tissue Ananda. I almost sneezed on my keyboard (still got that cold) and instead starting laughing hard. I needed that laugh. __________________ Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 Alera The addiction will protect itself ... AT ALL COSTS.

10-17-2008, 12:34 PM	#44 (permalink)
gneiss It's pronounced "Nice" :) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somewhere out there... Posts: 89	The Thanks button didn't quite convey how much I love that tissue box. I would so buy one. __________________ The first thing in the human personality that dissolves in alcohol is dignity.

10-18-2008, 08:00 AM	#45 (permalink)
ExxWino Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7	Hello Gneiss! I totally understand the things you are going through. I quit drinking over a year ago. I'm an atheist and I knew there was no way AA would work for me. I have never been to an AA meeting and never had a desire to attend one. I discovered the rational recovery website (I'm not allowed to post the link, but you can find them easily) and what they said totally made sense to me. Using AVRT I learned that I was not powerless over alchohol. In fact, I am the only one who has power over it. My "higher power" is the non-lizardlike portion of my own brain. I just had to learn how to get it back in control, which actually was pretty easy. Once you understand how your own brain works, the temptations are much easier to deal with. I went through alcohol withdrawal - extreme anxiety, palpitations, emotional lability, shakes, but they tapered off after a few days. Now I cannot for the life of me imagine putting anything alcoholic in my mouth. Alcohol is a non-issue for me now. I still have my same friends - in fact I go to wine dinners with them - I'm just the automatic designated driver. I NEVER told my friends the real reason I stopped drinking. I told everyone that any amount of alcohol started making me wake up at 3am and not be able to go back to sleep, so I had to give it up. "My metabolism must have changed or something!" is what I said. Everyone seemed to accept that without question. If they thought anything else, they kept it to themselves. Unlike you, I am unable to admit to people face-to-face that I ever had a problem with alcohol. This board is my only outlet for that stuff. I didn't discover this website until two months ago - I didn't really talk to anyone about quitting while I was doing it. I discovered this website while trying to help my husband quit. Once one partner quits, the other pretty much has to, too. The thing that amazes me about AA is that the people who go there are locked up in this "one day at a time" stuff, when in reality it only takes a few weeks to get over the daily desire to have a drink. Then the times when you think "it would be great to have a drink" get further and further apart. Eventually you rarely think about it at all. In fact, people who drink start looking ridiculous to you (but you have to be careful not to let them know you think that)! I drank for more than 40 years, and before I quit I kept the massive amounts I was drinking pretty quiet. I had an alcohol meter and would blow in it to see what my level was as I was getting ready to go to work in the morning. I'd chew gum and make some comment about "coffee breath". Pretty bad, huh? So, check out Rational Recovery. They are pretty much anti-AA over there, but just ignore all that stuff. AA isn't for me, but if it works for people - they should do whatever works for them. Good luck!

10-18-2008, 08:40 AM	#46 (permalink)
ExxWino Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7	I'd like to add one thing to my last post: I really think that one of the biggest reasons people have so much trouble quitting drinking is this: Most people don't want to quit drinking. They want to quit drinking as much as they are drinking NOW. They want to go back to those days when they could have one margarita with their nachos, or one or two glasses of wine with dinner. Unfortunately, the central nervous system doesn't work that way. Once you have had enough alcohol over a certain period of time (different for everyone), the brain suddenly says "OK, now I need this stuff to function." And once you have reached that point, it doesn't switch back to normal. Maybe one day we'll have a pill that will reboot the system, but it doesn't exist for now. So....once you have crossed that line, you have to be OK with NEVER DRINKING AGAIN. Ever. Once you are truly OK with knowing that you and alcohol are through FOREVER, it's actually pretty easy to quit.

10-18-2008, 10:05 AM	#47 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 6,211	thank you SOOO much Ex!!!! you really made me think...When I had been sober 7 years I never thought about drinking...it just wasn't a thought i had in answer to any problem, but then again, once i decided to "drink during hocky games" suddenly it became the answer to every problem again! I've been sober about 14 or so months, and I don't think of drinking every day...I still think about it sometimes, but less....and it will seem like less and less of an answer the more i stay sober i find other answers that work! Thanks again adn pleas poste more about rational recovery and your recovery.