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| Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,008
| Keepers: Voices of Secular Recovery Introduction Getting sober can be a lonesome journey for the person who is underwhelmed by the Twelve-Step approach of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). Despite significant erosion, "Step" programs still have a quasi-monopoly position in the public consciousness, and most treatment programs countenance little else. Until recently, the person who did not resonate with the Twelve Step approach was more or less condemned to isolation -- rarely the best environment for long term sobriety. The Internet has helped to change all that. For the price of a computer and an access account, people can now quickly locate one another based on their special interests, and can link up into cyber-communtities. One of these new "virtual villages" is Tom Shelly's "SOSmail" email list. This book is an anthology of selected messages posted to Tom's list during a period of nearly three years beginning in late 1996. Thanks to Tom's list and similar places on the Internet, no one with net access who wants an alternative recovery approach needs to feel isolated any longer. snip
__________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort |
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| | #2 (permalink) |
| Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,008
| The "104" Group By Tom Shelley When I got sober in 1981, I was making an effort to obey the "ninety meetings in ninety days" dictum that was drilled into us in the treatment center I attended. So, being a man of economical orientation, I decided that I would find the seven meetings closest to my home. In doing this I would minimize my travel and maximize my sober contacts. As though this had anything to do with anything, I would drive fifty miles to get a drink or a bottle when the bars and package stores closed in my county. So, as random chance would have it, one of the closest meetings to my house, on Friday nights, was the AA "104" group. As it turns out the group took its name from a passage, on pages 104 and 105 of the book "AA Comes of Age". In this book, Bill Wilson, the founder and paterfamilias of AA, said something like: "...any two or more, gathered together for the purpose of discussing sobriety may call themselves an AA group...". The founders of this "104" group included Charles (Pappy) and Lucybelle Guckian. Two of the most iconoclastic, interesting, infuriating, and caring people I have had the pleasure to meet. In short, they founded a truly secular AA group. The group operated without use of the twelve steps and without resort to the invocation of a higher power. Pappy and Lucy were ardent autodidacts (self-taught), which is a term I learned in my own self teaching. They encouraged everyone they came in contact with to learn, generally, everything that they could. Not just about the narrow focus of alcoholism, as though that weren't enough, but about every field of science, history, communication, etc. That last bit "etc." is homage to one of their favorite focuses, general semantics. A study of words, meanings, and the effects on humankind. As you might expect, I found a home. I became a regular member of the "104" group. In the parlance of the group (and AA, in general) it became my "homegroup". I was steeped in the practice of making my meeting without fail, every Friday night. I was taught that sobriety was my priority (sound familiar?). This was Pappy's favorite focus. I learned a tremendous amount from Pappy, Lucy, and the dozen or so other regular members of the group. But, as often happens with many groups, the "population" of the group began to change. Pappy and Lucy left to start another meeting, closer to their home. Pappy has since died, last year at 85. The "104" group carried on for some time, though membership dwindled and we became kind of cliquish and clubby. Relief from our doldrums came in the summer of 1987, in the person(s) of two men from Sarasota, a city about an hour south of my home in St. Petersburg. They came up to our meeting, one Friday night, because they had heard of our secular approach. They were interested and shared with us the article that Jim Christopher had written for "Free Inquiry".This word of a new "movement" happening in the home of "new movements", California, was intriguing. One of them had written to Jim for information on the nascent Secular Sobriety Groups (SSG). In turn, he passed the information on to us. I called Jim and we talked for some time. It was apparent, from the outset, that we were on the "same wavelength" and when Jim mentioned the "Sobriety Priority" I was certain that I was talking to a fellow secular sobrietist. I need to say that starting a SSG group was not a simple decision here. For me, like for many others, I had the attitude that AA, in particular my kind of secular AA, had helped save my life. To "abandon" that and start a new sort of meeting was a bit scary. That may sound melodramatic, but it felt like we were flying solo here for quite a while. Curiously, it took many years, four or five, for the meeting to regularly get more than five or six people. Even with the relatively large number of secular AA members in our area. In recent years, we have increased our membership markedly with the change of meeting days for the main secular AA group. Our meeting now boasts a number of additional members from that group as well. All in all it has been a great and wonderful experience. I want to thank everyone, here on the SOS E-Mail List, for helping to keep this alive and make it grow. I apologize for the length of this piece. Please don't anyone ask me what time it is.
__________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort |
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| | #3 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 27
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Not trying to flame you or anything, but I get the distinct impression you are willing to go to any lengths...EXCEPT deal with your God issue. What is that about? In my experience, as an alcoholic who has seen far too many miracles occur just in my OWN life, much less in the lives of others, it is impossible to explain away the incredible and miraculous changes that are brought about by the Program of AA. Words alone do NOT have this much power, nor do actions alone. I cannot understand how, if you really have been around this Program for a while, you can remain in defiance of God's love for you. I am guilty of defiance in many matters, both secular and faithful, and I have paid the price multifold. Have you such an amazing program that it is wholly self-sustaining? Again I am not trying to flame you personally, but I am replying to this because I believe that separatist movements like "secular recovery" are doing an injustice to the vast majority of those who need sobriety. If you cannot accept the existence of God or a "higher power" as suggested in the 12 steps of AA then you really are missing the point of spiritual growth and the gifts/blessings that are derived therefrom. Essentially you are saying "See, I got done on my own power..." and "what does God have that I can't find on my own?" The answer is a LASTING and TRUE peace or serenity. We are not inherently good! And we are not inherently strong! These tenets are what secularism is built on and stand in direct opposition to the spiritual necesseties of the Program! You may be sober for many years based on your cork-in-the-bottle, no-God-needed-here approach, but real growth will be stunted or misdirected without a spiritual component in your life. Anyway, enough of my unsolicited sponsorship. I do wish you well and I wish you serenity, but I especially wish you God's blessings. And I would say all the above to anyone whom I sponsor! I hope you can accept it in that light. |
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| | #4 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 361
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Hi ismchanger Please read:http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...7-welcome.html (Welcome) Thanks Ron sigh |
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| | #5 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut
Posts: 97
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Hi Ismchanger I have seen too many people try in many different ways to stay sober and fail to believe that any one way of staying sober is the only way or the best. For every miracle that happens there are several tragedies by people using the same method (all methods) of recovery as the person who succeeded. Abbadun [QUOTE=ismchanger]Not trying to flame you or anything, but I get the distinct impression you are willing to go to any lengths...EXCEPT deal with your God issue. What is that about? In my experience, as an alcoholic who has seen far too many miracles occur just in my OWN life, much less in the lives of others, it is impossible to explain away the incredible and miraculous changes that are brought about by the Program of AA. Words alone do NOT have this much power, nor do actions alone. I cannot understand how, if you really have been around this Program for a while, you can remain in defiance of God's love for you. I am guilty of defiance in many matters, both secular and faithful, and I have paid the price multifold. Have you such an amazing program that it is wholly self-sustaining? Again I am not trying to flame you personally, but I am replying to this because I believe that separatist movements like "secular recovery" are doing an injustice to the vast majority of those who need sobriety. If you cannot accept the existence of God or a "higher power" as suggested in the 12 steps of AA then you really are missing the point of spiritual growth and the gifts/blessings that are derived therefrom. ...Edit... |
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| | #6 (permalink) |
| Recovering perpetual kid... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Layton Utah
Posts: 223
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I for one am glad to see both the secular groups such as SMART Recovery, Life Ring and also the faith based groups such as Celebrate Recovery and Reformers Unanimous. I think AA would now fall within the middle ground between the two ends of the spectrum... The program of recovery that works for one person, may not work for another. It is nice to see there are viabe choices out there now. One thing I know we can all agree on, is that we are grateful for recovery, whatever form or program it may take for us as individuals with free agency and options. Hang loose, Doc.
__________________ Show me the way home...
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| To Life! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,015
| Quote:
Quote:
And words may not have that power, but, behaviors do. Again, we make choices each and every day. When we choose to do the next right thing, time after time, we get over our obsession with our DOC. And a person who is an atheist, or an agnostic, or Buddist, or follows Confucianism or Wiccan....et al....doesn't believe in G*D. Therefore, to speak of G*D's love is meaningless to that person. And that is the jist of SECULAR recovery. It's about the naturalist, humanistic world of recovery. Non-deist of any kind. As much as I personally respect people of faith other than mine, I wouldn't try to press *MY* version of G*D or G*D's love on another. That's respect only. Quote:
This place is NOT one of them. You have your right to your views; others have theirs. And we have a nice group here trying to get well. Pushing G*D onto a member of SC is not acceptable, although we do appreciate your viewpoint. Quote:
We expect other members to respect that right. Even if you don't agree. Quote:
Please read some of the other threads on this forum to get the idea of secular recovery. It is specifically non-theist. That's WHY it exists here. Shalom! (Yes, I'm Jewish; have a firm belief in G*D, but, respect other's right to recovery in whatever form they need. Each of us deserves to live substance free.)
__________________ IMAGINE | |||||
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| | #9 (permalink) |
| Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,008
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Thank you Teach! BTW, as the intro suggests, these are posts from the SOS (now LSR) email list, that were compiled into a book called Keepers, Voices of Secular Recovery. Actually, some of the posts were added to the internet version, after the book was published. If you would like to read more, they can be found at unhooked.com under 'Keepers.'
__________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort |
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| | #11 (permalink) |
| Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,008
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You're welcome! I don't see why not, we have links to LifeRing in the 'Sticky' posts. http://www.unhooked.com/keepers/index.htm But, I was gonna post a little at a time on this thread. I'll pick another entry pretty quick here. Paul
__________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort Last edited by doorknob; 09-24-2006 at 06:26 PM. |
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| | #12 (permalink) |
| Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,008
| Onionism: the Disease By MOG It is interesting, I have found, that my eyes don't tear as much when I don't chop onions. Some might say that I have a not so rare disease that is always there and manifests itself when the onions appear on the cutting board. Perhaps. If I stay away from the onions, it doesn't seem to matter whether I have onionism.
__________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort |
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| | #13 (permalink) |
| Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,008
| Larry and Alvin Discuss Drinking by Tim in Toronto The scene: A party. Our cast of characters: Larry: Somebody who used to drink too much Alvin: Somebody who enjoys the occasional snifter of brandy And now, Larry and Alvin discuss drinking... 9:00 PM Alvin: Care for a drink? Larry: No, thanks. Alvin: You don't drink? Larry: Nope. Alvin: Why not? Larry: I don't like the taste. Alvin: I'll mix in some orange juice and you won't taste the alcohol. Larry: Then what's the point? Alvin: Uhh... 9:10 PM Alvin: Here, I made you a Bloody Mary. Lots of tomato juice and only a little bit of vodka. Larry: I told you, I don't drink. Alvin: But it's hardly got any vodka in it at all! Larry: I told you, I don't drink. Alvin: Don't you like to party? Larry: I'm here, aren't I? Alvin: Well, here, I'll just leave it on the table for you. Larry: Somebody might knock it over. Can you take it into the kitchen? Alvin: But I made it for you! Larry: I told you, I don't drink. Alvin: All right, all right. 9:20 PM Alvin: I'm having a Manhattan. You know what's in a Manhattan? Larry: No. Alvin: Taste it and see if you can guess. Larry: Do you have any cola left? Alvin: Oh, I can make you a rum and cola! Larry: No, I just want a cola. Alvin: Don't you want a drink? Larry: I don't drink. Alvin: Not even water? Heh. Larry: Do you have any mineral water? Alvin: How about a beer? That's not really like drinking. Larry: Thanks, but no. I don't drink alcohol. Alvin: Gotta go freshen my Manhattan. Speak to you in a bit. 9:30 PM Alvin: So ... you don't drink, eh? Larry: Nope. Alvin: What's up with that? Larry: I don't eat veal either. Alvin: Huh? Larry: Well, if I didn't eat meat, would you keep trying to give me a steak? Alvin: Ha ha. This is different. Larry: In what way? Alvin: This is a party! You gotta drink at a party! Larry: Hey, I'm having a good time! Good crowd here, tonight. We were just discussing last night's — Alvin: So you don't want a drink, then? Larry: No, it's okay. Alvin: Why? Larry: I don't like the way it makes me feel. Alvin: Oh, you mean the hangovers! So just have one little drink! Larry: I'm fine, thanks. Alvin: Okay, okay, I can take a hint. Geez. 9:40 PM Alvin: So, why izh it, I mean, why is it you don't drink? Larry: I partied hearty when I was younger. I've turned over a new leaf. Alvin: So now you're a monk, is that it? Larry: No, it's just a personal decision. Alvin: Why not have a drink and relax a little? Larry: Nah, that would take the edge off. Alvin: That's the whole point! Take the edge off. Relax. Larry: I like to keep sharp. Got any coffee? Alvin: Irish coffee! Now there's a good idea! Larry: No, just plain coffee. Alvin: I'll go have a look. 9:50 PM Alvin: Here's your coffee. Larry: [sniffs cautiously] Is this just coffee? Alvin: Well, no. I mean ... yes! Larry: Really? Alvin: Well, just about. Larry: What's in it? Alvin: A bit of whisky. Just a few drops for flavour. The heat of the coffee probably evacor— evaporated all the alcohol anyway. Larry: Alvin, I really don't want any alcohol. Alvin: Oh, I see. So you're better than everybody else. Larry: Hardly. I just choose not to drink. Alvin: I don't get people like you. 10:00 PM Alvin: Hey, Larry, you gotta check out this 25-year-old Scotch! Larry: Good, is it? Alvin: Itsh amazing! Smooooth as silk! Larry: Three cheers for Scotland, then! Alvin: Here, I'll pour you a bit so you can see for yourself. Larry: I'll take your word for it. Alvin: Oh, yeah, you're the guy who won't take a drink. Larry: I guess so! Alvin: So what's with that? You an alkie or something? Larry: People who don't drink are alcoholics? Alvin: Well, why else wouldn't you drink? Larry: Just a personal decision. Good health and all that. Alvin: I read somewhere that wine is good for you. It clears up the blood or something like that. Want some wine? Larry: No, thanks. Alvin: Back in a sec. 10:15 PM Alvin: Dang, they're outta that great Scotch. Gotta make do with this crap cheap stuff. Larry: We were just discussing last night's — Alvin: This stuff's okay, I guess. I can't really taste the diff'rence. Larry: That's good. Alvin: I'll bet you couldn't tell the difference. Larry: Probably not. Alvin: I'll bet you ten dollars you can't. Larry: You'd win that bet. Alvin: Umm. Bet you ten dollars you can tell the diff'rence! Larry: I guess we'll never know, since they're out of the good stuff. Alvin: What? Oh. You're messing with my mind. Larry: Sorry. Alvin: Whatsh with you holy rollers, anyhow? I tell ya, itsh people like this who make us normal people ... [wanders off] 10:45 PM Alvin: What're you looking at? Larry: Excuse me? Alvin: Sorry, man. I mean, whatsh on the TV? Larry: We're watching the game. Alvin: Letsh toasht team! Larry: I beg your pardon? Alvin: I said ... let's ... toast ... the ... team. Larry: [raises glass of cola] To the team! Alvin: Why's the TV all blurry? 11:00 PM Larry: Well, Alvin, it's been an enjoyable evening. I've got to get going, now. Alvin: Wha'? Larry: I'm heading out. Thanks for everything. Alvin: One for the road? Larry: That wouldn't be a good idea. Alvin: You can take a buszh. A buff. A taxi! Larry: I'd rather take my car. Alvin: Let me getcher coat. Larry: I'm wearing it. Alvin: Stand shtill and lemmee get your hat. Gotta have a hat. Larry: I've got to go now. Bye, Alvin. Alvin: Don't wear a hat? Whatsh with people like you? Larry: I didn't bring a hat. Alvin: You think I'm an alco'lic, dontcha? Larry: An alcoholic? That's not for me to say. Alvin: I notchyanno. Larry: Excuse me? Alvin: I'm ... not ... you ... know. Larry: Good to hear that. See you at the office tomorrow. Alvin: You mean this isn't Friday? New Year's Day, 2003
__________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort |
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| | #14 (permalink) |
| To Life! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,015
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Please post links in the appropriate section of SR. Otherwise, if you'd like to post where you got information, it's best to post the link with spaces, so that it's not active. Here's an example: www. webmd. com I don't understand all the tech stuff, but, I've been told that posting a link allows for hacking, or something like that. And we want to keep SR safe for everyone to enjoy. Shalom!
__________________ IMAGINE |
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| | #15 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 361
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That's a good one Doorknob Ya' know, party season is definitely going to rear it's ugly head pretty soon. Although I've faced this situation a few times lately, it's good to keep on guard and scenarios like this can help prepare us and give us a little practice. Let's all be Larry(lol) Ron |
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| | #19 (permalink) |
| Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA
Posts: 1,670
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That link was ok Teach. There have been different explanations of links posted and it has brought a lot of confusion. Links to non commercial sites that contain information are fine. Links to commercial sites, other recovery forums, products or paid services are not allowed. Most sites will have some advertising. As long as the main content is non commercial it is allowed. Please do not chop up a link that you don't want active. If you want to disable the link, highlight the link and click this button
__________________ ![]() Pro 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety. |
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| | #22 (permalink) |
| Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,008
| Well, it doesn't "work"...people work. by Rick B. Jimmy, I know that embarrassment and frustration very well. I know the hopeless feeling of continuing to drink after I'd sworn I had to stop, and the fear that my drinking was something beyond my ability to arrest. Now I know that there was nothing to fear, that sobriety really is achievable, that I don't have to drink. You will know these things too. LSR is not a pill, or a magic spell, or a secret formula. LSR is simply an organization of people who share a common goal - sobriety, and who share some common basic beliefs about how sobriety may be achieved and maintained. We come together any way we can to talk about how our lives are going, what successes or failures we've experienced, what works and what doesn't for us. We care about each other. We care about you, Jimmy, you're here, you're one of us. One of the things we believe is that sobriety is completely the responsibility of the individual who wants it. No Higher Power, no other person, no group or book or slogan can "confer" sobriety on anyone. Breaking an addiction to booze is hard work, particularly at the beginning. Nobody can do that hard work for you. What a group of people can do is share suggestions, moral support, encouragement, and ideas. What a group of people can't do is put the bottle down for you. There's nothing mysterious about stopping addictive drinking. People have been doing it for centuries. Countless books are available which detail what you can expect in terms of physical withdrawal symptoms, the effects of alcohol on your body and your mind, the healing process, and the roles of nutrition, exercise and other life issues in recovery. LSR has available a terrific workbook, "Recovery by Choice", which many of us have found very useful. I find reading to be central to my recovery. So, how can you stop drinking? My opinion, there are just a few necessary conditions: You must be willing; You must believe it's possible; You must believe it's what's you must do for yourself; You must learn what to expect to feel and experience when you quit, or else you'll likely be discouraged by the discomfort and get drunk; You must stop choosing to drink...no matter what. Others will prescribe a different formula. None of us knows the answer for anyone other than ourselves. I can tell you what works for me, there's no guarantee it'll work for you. It's up to you to get started finding out what works for you. It starts with doing something, anything, other than picking up a drink. Your head will clear, your thinking will become rational, your body will begin to heal. If you drink, you start over. Sobriety can be difficult to achieve. It gets easier to maintain with practice. It becomes a way of life, a habit, an attitude. It's worth whatever effort is required to get it and keep it. Sobriety is not likely to result from simply trying to not drink and waiting to see what happens. Success comes from action an effort, from intentionally taking responsibility and directing your own life. So, how does LSR work? Well, it doesn't "work"...people work. LSR is a community of people bound by a common belief in the free will of every human being. We are not powerless...quite the contrary. The only thing in the universe that can get Jimmy sober and keep him that way is Jimmy. LSR is a place to find folks who've done it, folks who're trying to do it, folks who want to do it. Tell us about you, Jimmy...your life, your work, your family, yourself. Let us get to know you a bit. And take it easy, you can do this if you want to, but it'll take some time and maybe a few tries to get a good solid start...you'll figure it out. We'll do all we can to help you find your way. Rick
__________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort |
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| | #23 (permalink) | |
| To Life! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,015
| Quote:
I sincerely hope you don't think I'm minimizing the addiction to alcohol with what I'm about to say. But, I quit smoking cigarettes after 36 years and, at my worst, more than 3 packs a day. In four days it will be 10 months. I can relate to every word here. ![]() Thanks for sharing. Shalom!
__________________ IMAGINE | |
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| | #24 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK
Posts: 1,374
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Thanks DK, I loved Alvin and Larry. Larry is now a role model for me, as I can say without hesitation that I would have stuck the head on Alvin at 9.21pm.
__________________ It all works. It IS simple Miss C Give up hope of a better past. |
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| | #25 (permalink) |
| Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,008
| The ****it Switch By Lin L. C.W. posted: My last relatively lengthy abstinence ended while I was standing in Rite-Aid. Suddenly, I happened to notice the beer display and The Cloud descended over my head. "Why not?" "Who cares?" "What difference does it make?" These were my thoughts. Ah, the infamous "****it switch". As in, "Aw, ****it, I'll just have one." Or, "Ah, ****it, I need a break." Or, "Ah, ****it, I deserve a reward." In other words, any drinking-related thought that begins "****it" is probably not a good one. The use of the word, "****" in particular is important. That is a word that has a high emotional load -- grown men have been known to commit assault and sometimes even murder when they hear it. It effectively shuts down rational thought (thus the "tripped-circuit" result) and allows only strong emotions to pass through to consciousness. And, what do we do with strong emotions, boys and girls? Also, the "****it" portion is usually only the first half of the equation. The second half is usually one of the many excuses we use to drink. "Ah, ****it; I deserve this." "Ah, ****it; I'll show those bastards." "Ah, ****it, being sober never did me any good anyway." So, we disarm our ability to think reasonably in a goal-oriented way, and then the little devil on the shoulder moves in for the kill, with a totally irrational thought that we -- without the verbal land mine we just dropped on ourselves -- would be able to handle in a blink.
__________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort |
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