Dee74

Hi Blue Chair

Honestly I think I'd like CRAFT a lot more if it wasn't always positioned against AA, NA 12 steps etc.
That stuff turns me off.

There simply is no one universal solution.
Different people find different solutions that work for them

D

Morning Glory

I just have to say that I've been on these forums for 13 years and dealing with addiction for around 30 years and I have never met anyone that believes this way. I have however met many people that have totally exhausted themselves doing everything possible to save a loved one. They are usually desperate for help by the time they get here. You can't imagine how living with this for years can cause a person to feel suicidal. I often felt the only way out for me was death until I learned some recovery methods that helped me.

I have no problem with an addict using clean needles and being in a safer place in case of overdose.

Needabreak

Yes, many of us have suffered greatly: financial consequences, legal consequences, emotional upheaval -- the works -- due to our loved ones' behaviors. I don't think that tough love when one reaches this point is really about the addict anymore -- at least, it wasn't in my case. For me it was really about finally putting myself first.

I wish it were that easy. In my case, such a strategy would have left me wide open to further manipulation.

BlueChair

Im curious Dee why you pulled my post to make the declaration that you dont care for the CRAFT method? I didnt mention any 12 step program in my post.

BlueChair

This is good to know. I wasnt speaking of this forum, just views of society when I made my comment. I do hope Im mistaken overall. I remember being told when my husband went missing during his cocaine binge that we should not look for him because this was enabling and preventing him from hitting his bottom. We shouldnt spend money on an investigator or other things we did to find him. I also remember when my husband relapsed after his first month in rehab various people told me it was because he wasnt done and didnt want recovery bad enough, continued money on treatment was a waste of money at the time. Ideas that conflicted with what his doctors said. Im not saying these were people on this forum, people of any specific program, but people whom I interacted with.

This is getting off track from harm reduction issue so I will stop.

PinkCloudsCharley

I was told, in a 12 step meeting, that if I called an ambulance for my husband when he was drunk, i was enabling and not allowing him to hit rock bottom. I have heard those sentiments and more. I would call an ambulance for a hobo on the street, why not for someone I love, especially when his life is on danger? Those sentiments exist, I've heard quite a few.

I'm not sure why this was brought up. Blue was not bashing 12 step programs, although there are pluses and minuses for everything including 12 step and Craft. If someone doesn't like Craft, lol, don't read the threads here

Dee74

You mentioned Craft. I'm a member here, I replied LOL.

I didn't say I didn't care for it though - I said I'd like it a lot more if it wasn't posited against something else.
Maybe that's just here on SR, I dunno.

I think there's room for a multitude of approaches.

I also think each approach needs to be strong enough to stand on its own merits rather that the demerits of other approaches but maybe that's just my personal approach.

Your last paragraph was the part that actually spurred me to post.

You're right - you didn't actually mention 12 step.....
My bad

Another apology: I actually had the idea this was in the substance abuse forum (that'll learn me for not wearing my glasses), so my apologies if my views - although sincere - somehow offended any readers.

D

cynical one

It would be so fetch if you would elaborate where you get this information from. Can you provide a link from a reputable source?

Morning Glory

I split the thread so it didn't hijack the other thread. I didn't expect everyone to jump in and start a battle. I am sorry the thread went off topic. That wasn't my intention. I just can't understand how anyone could think that we wish an addicted loved one harm. I just haven't seen that. I surely haven't wanted harsh consequences for anyone I know who is a substance abuser. Sometimes there just isn't another choice. I wasn't referring to Craft at all. I was responding the what I quoted. Maybe if you had done this for 30 years you might understand what I'm talking about.

FeelingGreat

By the time many people find it to the F&F forum they have tried multiple approaches, including love, to help their A, and a lot of the advice springs from the impression the OP is a nervous wreck, and often enduring abuse. At this stage the focus shifts to the F&F, rather the A, and involves self-preservation rather than tough love.

I do agree with the school of thought that harm minimisation is the way to go, because it doesn't preclude treatment. I can't help thinking about the F&F of young people who want them to at least survive until the wish for recovery kicks in.

Morning Glory

I don't talk much about it, but my daughter is also an alcoholic. She has been sober for 20 years. She just woke up one day and thought she should be a better mother and quit drinking.

So I could write a post like this.

One problem I think is the view held in the United States that has developed over decades of misinformation and is ingrained into society now. Society thinks that addicts and alcoholics need a 12 step or non 12 step program. Society thinks they need a treatment plan. Society doesn't think addicts can just quit on their own without any help. My daughter didn't use a program. She just quit on her own. Your loved one can do the same so there is no need for support or treatment. This is my experience.

I'm just trying to show that one person's experience won't fit for everyone. I wish it could be that simple. It's not. I'm sure Craft is perfect for some, 12 steps for another, and just quitting with no support for someone else. There is no need to compare or compete. None of us can walk in another person's shoes or understand what they have tried or what they need to do. I don't have to live with anyone's consequences so I'm not going to say that what they are doing is wrong. They have to live with the decisions they make. I hope everyone wins.

allforcnm

I wanted to share some information that might help clarify the development of CRAFT – Community Reinforcement and Family Training approach that is used by family members around the world.

CRAFT most definitely stands on its own merits and it did not come into existence to prey on other methodologies… its actually registered with SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration in the USA) as an Evidence Based Approach meaning it has sufficient scientific data to show it provides excellent results for family members who “work the program”.

Details of CRAFT and statistics can be found here for your review.
http://www.nrepp.samhsa.gov/ViewInte...on.aspx?id=378

This excerpt below is from our book thread, Beyond Addiction How Science and Kindness Help People Change.. this explains how CRAFT was developed..

Interesting fact:

It wasn't until the 1970 's that the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism... & National Institute of Drug Abuse were formed.. Up until this point, addiction had been excluded from scientific study.. it was kept separate from other medical conditions because it was originally thought to be a moral or spiritual issue. Once these organizations came about... government funding began channeling money into research.. And now some 40 years later we have evidence to support why people become addicted, what works best at treating addiction & the behaviors associated with addiction. We also have evidence that supports and affirms...Family plays an important role in the recovery process.

Interesting Fact:

CRAFT – Community Reinforcement and Family Training is an evidence based, clinically proven approach to helping family members of substance abusers.

CRAFT stemmed from research started in the 1970 's when the Community Reinforcement Approach (CRA) was developed; at this time evidence began to show "Family Involvement was a crucial factor in successful change"...CRA is considered one of the most effective behavioral therapy approach used today when treating substance abusers. The CRAFT program created by Robert J Meyers (one of the original CRA researchers) extended this approach to family members and created a program just for us.

CRAFT has 3 main objectives:

1. Skills to take care of yourself
2. Skills to help your loved one change
3. Reduce substance abuse, regardless if a person receives formal treatment


CRAFT is a behavioral approach
CRAFT is also motivational drawing its strengths from collaboration and kindness, instead of confrontation and conflict

Evidence based facts about CRAFT:

Two Thirds of the people who were using substances; initially resistant to treatment, agreed to go to treatment after CRAFT techniques were employed. (~ 5 sessions)

The majority of participating spouses, parents reported being happier, less depressed, less angry. They reported more family cohesion and less family conflict regardless if the substance abuser engaged in treatment.


CRAFT is also part of the SMART Recovery Program for Family Members.. SMART has been around for over 20 years.

This is also a statement from SMART you might find interesting:

“At SMART Recovery we believe that each individual finds his own path to recovery. For some participants, that path may include 12-step programs, like Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) or Narcotics Anonymous (NA), or other self-empowering groups such as Women for Sobriety, LifeRing Secular Recovery, Moderation Management, or Secular Organizations for Sobriety. Although the SMART Recovery approach differs from each of these approaches in various ways, it does not necessarily exclude them. Some SMART Recovery participants choose to attend other meetings when they cannot attend a SMART Recovery meeting, as they construct their own paths to recovery.”

By taking what they want and leaving the rest, family members can also use pieces of both CRAFT and 12 step programs if they desire.

AS CRAFT, SMART, and many NON 12 Step Therapist (such as the one I worked with) tend to follow closely and believe in the Science of Addiction, I wanted to share a few things I often personally quote from the National Institute of Drug Abuse… in the United States this organization falls under the umbrella of the National Institute of Health and deals with all substances from alcohol, drugs, tobacco… they are considered the experts in addiction and help set national policy and treatment standards.

So now if you see some of these concepts discussed among secular family members - you will know they are actually backed by science and research.. they are valid opinions and views; not stuff made up to be contradictory against other programs who might base their views on concepts on ideas that are totally different and could appear to be poised to intentionally attack scientific approaches.. it all depends on how you look at it don’t you think?

From NIDA:

“For much of the past century, scientists studying drug abuse labored in the shadows of powerful myths and misconceptions about the nature of addiction. When scientists began to study addictive behavior in the 1930s, people addicted to drugs were thought to be morally flawed and lacking in willpower. Those views shaped society’s responses to drug abuse, treating it as a moral failing rather than a health problem, which led to an emphasis on punishment rather than prevention and treatment. Today, thanks to science, our views and our responses to addiction and other substance use disorders have changed dramatically. Groundbreaking discoveries about the brain have revolutionized our understanding of compulsive drug use, enabling us to respond effectively to the problem.

Is continued drug abuse a voluntary behavior?

The initial decision to take drugs is typically voluntary. However, with continued use, a person’s ability to exert self-control can become seriously impaired; this impairment in self-control is the hallmark of addiction. Brain imaging studies of people with addiction show physical changes in areas of the brain that are critical to judgment, decision making, learning and memory, and behavior control


When is the best time to get someone into treatment?

It is a myth that an addict must hit "rock bottom" to be ready for treatment. The reality is, treatment works regardless of whether a person has hit rock bottom; and catching a person earlier in the addiction cycle, may mean fewer accompanying problems and a better overall prognosis for long-term recovery. Further, "rock bottom" is a dangerous place to be, and for many addicts, that point is when a near-fatal overdose or other serious health or criminal justice consequence has occurred. If you think a loved one is in need of treatment, it is advisable to do everything in your power to help them find the courage, determination, and means to seek treatment as early as possible.

People with untreated addictions frequently say that there is nothing wrong with them; they falsely believe that they can control their drug or alcohol use. They strongly resist the notion that they need treatment, even when family members or friends believe otherwise. Thats why it may be tempting to take a hands-off approach to the problem, hoping that your relative or friend drug or alcohol problem will just go away-that he or she is just going through a phase and will get better with time. Or you may decide that treatment won't help because your addicted friend or relative doesn't want to make a change. But both of these beliefs are myths that can lead to a more severe addiction and to greater family disruption.

Treatment does not need to be voluntary to be effective. Sanctions or enticements from family, employment settings, and/or the criminal justice system can significantly increase treatment entry, retention rates, and the ultimate success of drug treatment interventions.


What helps people stay in treatment?

Because successful outcomes often depend on a person’s staying in treatment long enough to reap its full benefits, strategies for keeping people in treatment are critical. Whether a patient stays in treatment depends on factors associated with both the individual and the program. Individual factors related to engagement and retention typically include motivation to change drug-using behavior; degree of support from family and friends; and, frequently, pressure from the criminal justice system, child protection services, employers, or family. Within a treatment program, successful clinicians can establish a positive, therapeutic relationship with their patients. The clinician should ensure that a treatment plan is developed cooperatively with the person seeking treatment, that the plan is followed, and that treatment expectations are clearly understood. Medical, psychiatric, and social services should also be available.


How can family and friends make a difference in the life of someone needing treatment?

Family and friends can play critical roles in motivating individuals with drug problems to enter and stay in treatment. Family therapy can also be important, especially for adolescents. Involvement of a family member or significant other in an individual's treatment program can strengthen and extend treatment benefits.



Can addiction be treated successfully?

Yes. Addiction is a treatable disease. Research in the science of addiction and the treatment of substance use disorders has led to the development of evidence-based interventions that help people stop abusing drugs and resume productive lives.


Can addiction be cured?

Not always—but like other chronic diseases, addiction can be managed successfully. Treatment enables people to counteract addiction’s powerful disruptive effects on their brain and behavior and regain control of their lives.

Does relapse to drug abuse mean treatment has failed?

No. The chronic nature of the disease means that relapsing to drug abuse at some point is not only possible, but likely. Relapse rates (i.e., how often symptoms recur) for people with addiction and other substance use disorders are similar to relapse rates for other well-understood chronic medical illnesses such as diabetes, hypertension, and asthma, which also have both physiological and behavioral components. Treatment of chronic diseases involves changing deeply imbedded behaviors, and relapse does not mean treatment has failed. For a person recovering from addiction, lapsing back to drug use indicates that treatment needs to be reinstated or adjusted or that another treatment should be tried.

Unfortunately, when relapse occurs many deem treatment a failure. This is not the case: Successful treatment for addiction typically requires continual evaluation and modification as appropriate, similar to the approach taken for other chronic diseases.

Approximately 40% to 60% of people may relapse after treatment. This means 40% to 60% wont relapse.

What are the principles of effective substance use disorder treatment?

Research shows that combining treatment medications (where available) with behavioral therapy is the best way to ensure success for most patients. Treatment approaches must be tailored to address each patient’s drug use patterns and drug-related medical, psychiatric, and social problems.

Addiction Need Not Be a Life Sentence

How do behavioral therapies treat drug addiction?

Behavioral treatments help engage people in substance use disorder treatment, modifying their attitudes and behaviors related to drug use and increasing their life skills to handle stressful circumstances and environmental cues that may trigger intense craving for drugs and prompt another cycle of compulsive use. Behavioral therapies can also enhance the effectiveness of medications and help people remain in treatment longer.

• Cognitive Behavioral Therapy seeks to help patients recognize, avoid, and cope with the situations in which they are most likely to abuse drugs.

• Contingency Management uses positive reinforcement such as providing rewards or privileges for remaining drug free, for attending and participating in counseling sessions, or for taking treatment medications as prescribed.

• Motivational Enhancement Therapy uses strategies to evoke rapid and internally motivated behavior change to stop drug use and facilitate treatment entry.

• Family Therapy (especially for youth) approaches a person’s drug problems in the context of family interactions and dynamics that may contribute to drug use and other risky behaviors.


Effective treatment attends to multiple needs of the individual, not just his or her drug abuse. To be effective, treatment must address the individual’s drug abuse and any associated medical, psychological, social, vocational, and legal problems. It is also important that treatment be appropriate to the individual’s age, gender, ethnicity, and culture.

Behavioral therapies—including individual, family, or group counseling—are the most commonly used forms of drug abuse treatment. Behavioral therapies vary in their focus and may involve addressing a patient’s motivation to change, providing incentives for abstinence, building skills to resist drug use, replacing drug-using activities with constructive and rewarding activities, improving problem-solving skills, and facilitating better interpersonal relationships. Also, participation in group therapy and other peer support programs during and following treatment can help maintain abstinence.

Medications are an important element of treatment for many patients, especially when combined with counseling and other behavioral therapies.


Many drug-addicted individuals also have other mental disorders. Because drug abuse and addiction—both of which are mental disorders—often co-occur with other mental illnesses, patients presenting with one condition should be assessed for the other(s). And when these problems co-occur, treatment should address both (or all), including the use of medications as appropriate.

Dee74

Thanks

I'm pretty sure you've shared that with me before - thanks again for the time and effort though.

not sure if this was a quote or a question directed at me

I'll answer it anyway

Like I said in the beginning, if someone's programme is presented as being what someone else's programme is not, it turns me off.

and no, I don't think that's simply in the way I'm looking at it

I've seen it here across all forums, in all approaches, by all kinds of folks.

I'm speaking generally here.

I get it - people want to share what works for them, and they can sometimes get really into that, they can tend to universalise their experience and it can get a little evangelical and even combative.

Me? I'm not a member of any recovery group or school of thought.

I'm just a druggie boozer who didn't want to die and pulled himself out of a 30 year tailspin.

I did have to hit bottom to recover - but I understand now it doesn't have to be that way - and I share that discovery whenever I can

I see some great points in every recovery method that's presented regularly here on both the addiction and family and friends sides of the boards

I'm rational enough to understand the logic and empirical truths of science but I'm also attuned to the spiritual enough to understand there are sometimes elements in peoples stories that can't be quantified.

I know MG has put a lot of work into creating this forum and is committed to making it work. I think it's awesome we all get a chance to share our beliefs and experiences.

I think sometimes we can forget we're all on the same side

If CRAFT allows you the freedom to pick and choose the things that work for you I think that's great allforcnm - that approach certainly worked for me.

D

cynical one

Interesting REAL Facts:

Historians debate who has primacy in arguing that habitual drinking carried the characteristics of a disease. Some note that Scottish physician Thomas Trotter was the first to characterize excessive drinking as a disease, or medical condition.[7]

Others point to American physician Benjamin Rush (1745–1813), a signatory to the United States Declaration of Independence — who understood drunkenness to be what we would now call a "loss of control" — as possibly the first to use the term "addiction" in this sort of meaning.[8]

My observations authorize me to say, that persons who have been addicted to them, should abstain from them suddenly and entirely. 'Taste not, handle not, touch not' should be inscribed upon every vessel that contains spirits in the house of a man, who wishes to be cured of habits of intemperance.

—Levine, H.G., The Discovery of Addiction: Changing Conceptions of Habitual Drunkenness in America [8]

Rush argued that "habitual drunkenness should be regarded not as a bad habit but as a disease", describing it as "a palsy of the will".[9] His views are described by Valverde[10] and by Levine:[8]

Then there is Swedish physician Magus Huss who coined the term "alcoholism" in his book Alcoholismus chronicus.[11] Some argue that he was the first to systematically describe the physical characteristics of habitual drinking and claim that it was a disease. However, this came decades after Rush and Trotter wrote their works, and some historians argue that the idea that habitual drinking was a diseased state emerged earlier.[12]

Given all this controversy, the best one can say is that the idea that habitual alcohol drinking was a disease had become more acceptable by the middle of the nineteenth century, although many writers still argued it was a vice, a sin, and not the purview of medicine but of religion.[13]

The American Medical Association (AMA) had declared that alcoholism was an illness in 1956.

Between 1980 and 1991, medical organizations, including the AMA, worked together to establish policies regarding their positions on the disease theory. These policies were developed in 1987 in part because third-party reimbursement for treatment was difficult or impossible unless alcoholism were categorized as a disease. The policies of the AMA, formed through consensus of the federation of state and specialty medical societies within their House of Delegates, state, in part:

"The AMA endorses the proposition that drug dependencies, including alcoholism, are diseases and that their treatment is a legitimate part of medical practice."

In 1991, the AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections

PinkCloudsCharley

You're right, Cynical. It's a disease and therefore best treated by professionals and medical doctors! Exactly! it's not some moral failing that can be dealt by people who are suffering from the same disease. We don't tell people who have chronic depression that if they talk to other people with chronic depression they can control it. Of course not! We tell them to see a doctor or a professional therapist. You made very good points.

Allfor, your research is amazing!! That is exactly why I feel Craft gives someone dignity and treats them with respect, like every person deserves!

Needabreak

Is it really that easy? Is it really so easy that one can just send their addicted family member to treatment and boom, it's all over, and if we family members give them respect they will be fine and we will be too?

And more to the point, are those of us who suffered through relationships with addicts, finally giving up and leaving our partners and choosing to protect ourselves -- are we really bad people? Did we not treat our addicted loved ones with respect and is that why our lives became so difficult?

I may be wrong, but honestly, that is what this comment seems to be saying.

PinkCloudsCharley

Nope. Not easy at all. Do you read my posts? Lol! are medical treatments easy? When I was clinically depressed and had post partum, was it easy to go to the doctor, get meds, go to therapy? Hell no. Did it work? Oh yeah. Because my husband sat my butt physically in the car, drove me to the Dr, told her I had a serious problem and I got help. Ongoing help for years. He respected me enough to do to that, not let me sink lower and lower till I hit my bottom. that would have been very dangerous for me, our baby and for him. And yet, it's the way we counsel people whose loved ones have an addiction. Leave them alone till they hit the bottom. Would that have been good advice for me when i was clinically depressed and couldn't get out of bed to see the Dr on my own willpower? I can say, for certain, no.

Craft never suggests to stay in a relationship if someone refuses help, or is abusive or the relationship simply doesn't work for whatever reason. Have you read the books?

No one has ever suggested that you have not tried. I don't know your story, and I'm not sure why you have taken this thread this way or why you are so defensive against a treatment that has been proven to help many people with addictions.

I'm done with this thread. This is the SECULAR forum. If you wish to talk further about 12 step, please do so in the appropriate place. This isn't it.

Needabreak

Where did I say anything about 12-step? And where did I show any defensiveness about CRAFT? What I was questioning was the idea that there is a simple treatment for addiction, and that those who decide not to go along for the ride with the addict that they loved are somehow to blame for their loved one's continued addiction because they are not being "respectful" enough.

I don't disagree that treatment -- and CRAFT -- help some people. They do not help everyone. Just like treatment and medication help SOME people suffering from depression, but not ALL people suffering from depression.

I am athiest and for that reason don't buy into the whole higher power thing with the 12-step program, so I also don't understand why the hostility toward me posting on the secular forum. This strikes me as a strangely exclusionary point of view. Probably not the most helpful thing in terms of recovery.

PinkCloudsCharley

I've asked to have my last post deleted. I get frustrated when people say this is easy, or when they say this is an easy fix. It's not. I've had many nights of crying about this and asking if I'm doing the right thing, going about this the right way. All i know is, this is the best way to leave our whole family's dignity intact. It's a medical disease that requires treatment, just as any disease does. Whether or not the person seeks treatment is up to them.

Needabreak

It's hard for all of us. I spent many nights up crying too. And I spent a good chunk of my time pushing my ex into treatment. I even paid for it -- several times. It didn't work.

Sadly, there are no guarantees of a happy ending.

But I don't think there's anyone on this board who hasn't tried their best, including you and me.