Mentium

I was at a meeting last night and the subject of the 'higher power' came up from a new member. She hasn't quite got the hang of meeting formats so there was a bit of cross sharing – worked fine though given the meeting was relatively small. I should add that I live in the UK where secularism is more or less the default position these days.

I'm an atheist – get that out of the way. And I have abandoned AA, or thought I had, in the past because of what I thought were irreconcilable views about the nature of this higher power and the place of faith in the irrational in the program. (I have actually reached the conclusion I actually left in order to drink – but that is for another time perhaps).

The interesting thing was that several people talked about their higher power not as some entity or deity but as a means to a shift in perspective about their alcohol addiction – a handing over of the problem. Nobody there thought of their higher power in terms of god or Jesus – and yet they all felt that the shift in their consciousness was the thing that AA is about.

This was very interesting and also very helpful for me – a recent returnee. It gave me some hope that the program, which has kept me sober for periods (just short of a year a couple of years ago) still has something powerful to offer.

What brought me back was the realisation that the power of group support is something you really don't get anywhere else as a problem drinker, but maybe there is more on offer than I thought.

My two cents.

PhoenixJ

fini

Mentium, hi, there is a huge difference between "irrational" and "beyond the rational".....maybe giving that some thought could be helpful.

Mentium

I'm afraid I don't agree. There are certainly things we don't understand, so in that sense they are 'beyond' rational, but that is not to say we are then free to deploy a set of what one might call 'irrational' sensibilities.

fini

the conclusion you draw wasn't one i proposed.

awuh1

I am reminded again of the three ways that Carl Jung talked about as the way to overcome alcoholism. All three involve finding a sense of "wholeness". Each involve different paths. He talked about "(1)an act of grace, or (2) a personal and honest contact with friends (what you are talking about as support), or (3) a higher education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism".

All have worked and are valid, albeit for different individuals.

Fusion

Hello Awuh, I'm interested in your post and the reference to Carl Jung's 'finding a sense of wholeness: in particular path (3).

I do realise that 'rationalism' has different roots/concepts and after some googling.....I still remain unsure of the type of 'rationalisation' that Jung was referring to in path (3). Therefore, I'd be grateful if you would enlighten me.

awuh1

I am a little unsure exactly what you are referring to Tatsy. I believe the way rationalism is used by Jung in this context is the same as it is discussed by William James in "The Sentiment of Rationality". https://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/...tOfRationality

Fusion

Awuh, yes, I was referring to Jung's reference to 'rationalism' and wanted to know which type of rationalism he referred to, as set out in your above post. I'm very grateful for your link, thank you.

melsworld

i know some people who view heir higher power as a more "enlightened" (for lack of a better word) form or awareness of their own consciousness. As in, a deeper, more profound connection with their own sense of who they are, what they want, their abilty to separate themselves from their thoughts, that inner voice or gut instinct that tells you what's right and wrong. That makes sense to me.

stephengb

This is exactly where I am.

Pathwaytofree

I've heard this too in AA. My 12 step experience has taught me how to have an extraordinarily strong sense of self-awareness. It's taught me how to separate my true self from my thoughts in my thinking mind. How to listen to that still small inner voice. Some people in AA call that our own "higher power", our healthier self vs. our "lower power", our thinking mind or our ego.

Many in my home group speak of "God". However, my sponsor said you can also think of it as an "energy". I've also heard it described as your "higher self", your "intuition", "the still small voice within". Some of the people in the rooms call this God. But you certainly don't have to.

I know a Buddhist in the rooms who just says "God" because it's easier to say during her shares. But she does not believe in God. Her sponsor is devout Catholic. It really doesn't matter. We all have different conceptions of what we see this "higher power" to be.

I personally believe in a Christian based God. But the big book says "your own conception of God". It can be as simple as "Guider Of Decisions"--you checking in with your inner gut to make decisions, etc.

Please expand on the "shift in consciousness" you heard shared about in your meeting. I am very curious.

paulokes

Old thread? but some balanced discussion here of what a Power Greater than Myself...that is to be found deep within myself...can actually mean to members and attendees of AA.

This is my experience also and with it comes the realisation that AA is not faith healing or some parlour trick we play on our minds...there is depth and weight to the message I hear and faith or lack of is no barrier to being open to the programme or the fellowship.

Myself. ..I have moved through and between various concepts over the years from the support of others, to more religious concepts, psychological concepts of the perceived self and defence mechanisms, spiritual concepts of the lower and higher or actual self...all of which have been valid and useful.

One thing for sure...at my worst, the person I was did not have the power to get or stay sober. I needed to reach out beyond myself for help and be willing to become, or be helped to become, more than I was at that particular time.

Still true today as I face the personal battles of daily living...this business is never done and dusted

P