Question for fellow Athesists/Agnostics
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by frankh77 
I really wish that I believed in God or any other form of a higher power. I'm envious of people who do. I would love to have faith in something that could provide comfort.
I believe as the ancient Hindu's do - That your beliefs should grow as you grow. I have seen many people get prodigious results starting out with very simple, tiny and even transient HPs... and then letting it evolve in to something greater.
It's the people that get stuck on "I will never believe in anything remotely resembling a HP" that seem to have the most trouble. Open-mindedness and willingness to adapt, seem to be the keys to success. Any old HP can do the job if a person brings enough willingness to the table.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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Originally Posted by anattaboy
Hendrix, I too get something from anyone who has made it through the gauntlet regardless of their method. 'Tis hard to hear the sobriety message from the 2 that hijacked this thread because they really didn't share anything about that.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by beddy3484
... The only reason to reply to the initial thread question I posed with their particular responses was to show others their self-aggrandizement.
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Originally Posted by Boleo
Last time I looked, the word "Agnostics" appeared in the OP title. Those of us who responded to that prompt got literally ganged-up on by the extreme left wing atheists. Who's fault was that?
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Originally Posted by Joe Nerv
And we're all sober adults here, right? Ok.
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Washington, MO
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My mistake, agnostic can mean undecided. I may have read that the OP was not wanting to mix the apples of personal belief with the oranges of recovery. I do not have a deity, don't drink, practice Buddhism and up until recently, DID think I had to connect somehow to my old home group to show how open-minded I am. Oh, and occasionally I post on threads that I've had experience to share that I feel could be helpful. That's about it.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Originally Posted by beddy3484
I am an atheist/agnostic. I don't know which one I am yet and that has been for a long time, just depends on the day. I do not hate religion by any means and understand what religion can do for some people, but I am solidly atheist/agnostic and no one can convince me otherwise. I am 23 days sober and I am working AA/NA/SMART. I really enjoy the happiness that a lot of AA/NA members exude and I also enjoy the stories they share about coming from the depths of addiction hell to recovery. But when they talk about having to find their higher power to get sober I shut that off. I try my hardest to change the words they are saying in my head to at least represent some power outside myself (just maybe not God as they see it) because I want to believe there is something out there because I fully admit I am powerless over substances. I can't have them in my life, I can't handle it. I guess the question I am getting at is, are there any atheist out there that have found a lot of continued benefit from AA/NA without accepting that there is a higher power?
First of all, congrats on your 23 days sober!
I've been sober in AA for 6 years. And Godless.
I had a really hard time hearing people talk of God and changing the words to fit my beliefs. When I came in I really had not understanding of any higher power nor did I care about it. I realized, as much as it pained me, I need to take these suggestions in order to save my life.
At one point in my life, I considered myself an atheist. Then agnostic. Zero religion. Zero spirituality. I had no interested and didn't need it.
Today .... I think I'm half agnostic. Can that be a thing?
I was finally able to come up with a definition of my higher power. It is "not me". Period. That's it. When speaking of my HP in a meeting I use the word "god" out of convenience. No one knows I'm saying it with a lower case G -- unless I mention that in a meeting because it relates to the topic.
There are times I want to tell someone they are wrong or "too religious" or whatever and then I stop myself......I give them as much respect as I want for my own beliefs.
I'm not in AA to get validation that my hp is the right one or any of that stuff. I'm just there to safe my life. I no longer have to be right about this topic......nor any other topic. Sometimes. Mostly.
There are some great resources out there. Here are a few.
AA Agnostica
Agnostic AA
http://the12stepbuddhist.com/
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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Originally Posted by PaperDolls
First of all, congrats on your 23 days sober! 
I've been sober in AA for 6 years. And Godless. I had a really hard time hearing people talk of God and changing the words to fit my beliefs. When I came in I really had not understanding of any higher power nor did I care about it. I realized, as much as it pained me, I need to take these suggestions in order to save my life. At one point in my life, I considered myself an atheist. Then agnostic. Zero religion. Zero spirituality. I had no interested and didn't need it. Today .... I think I'm half agnostic. Can that be a thing? I was finally able to come up with a definition of my higher power. It is "not me". Period. That's it. When speaking of my HP in a meeting I use the word "god" out of convenience. No one knows I'm saying it with a lower case G -- unless I mention that in a meeting because it relates to the topic. There are times I want to tell someone they are wrong or "too religious" or whatever and then I stop myself......I give them as much respect as I want for my own beliefs. I'm not in AA to get validation that my hp is the right one or any of that stuff. I'm just there to safe my life. I no longer have to be right about this topic......nor any other topic. Sometimes. Mostly. There are some great resources out there. Here are a few. AA Agnostica Agnostic AA http://the12stepbuddhist.com/
I've been sober in AA for 6 years. And Godless. I had a really hard time hearing people talk of God and changing the words to fit my beliefs. When I came in I really had not understanding of any higher power nor did I care about it. I realized, as much as it pained me, I need to take these suggestions in order to save my life. At one point in my life, I considered myself an atheist. Then agnostic. Zero religion. Zero spirituality. I had no interested and didn't need it. Today .... I think I'm half agnostic. Can that be a thing? I was finally able to come up with a definition of my higher power. It is "not me". Period. That's it. When speaking of my HP in a meeting I use the word "god" out of convenience. No one knows I'm saying it with a lower case G -- unless I mention that in a meeting because it relates to the topic. There are times I want to tell someone they are wrong or "too religious" or whatever and then I stop myself......I give them as much respect as I want for my own beliefs. I'm not in AA to get validation that my hp is the right one or any of that stuff. I'm just there to safe my life. I no longer have to be right about this topic......nor any other topic. Sometimes. Mostly. There are some great resources out there. Here are a few. AA Agnostica Agnostic AA http://the12stepbuddhist.com/Member
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 81
Recovery Question
I have received so much great advice here today that I wanted to post a question I posted in the newcomers forum this morning:
27 days and there are so many ups and downs. My addictive voice can be strong. As I recover from my addictions my body is also starting to heal and I can start to see some of the swelling in my arms where I used to stick a needle go down and my veins come back. This is having both a positive and negative effect.
Positive= I am getting healthy and I have my family back. Negative= To be frank and honest, seeing a nice plump vein makes me want to stick a needle in it.
Today when I had a vein pop up I started to think if I was still using I would have been so happy to see it. It made me fantasize about heroin for about an hour. It also made me feel sad to think that I would never get to feel that warm feeling that heroin makes you feel. Because I have to be honest heroin makes you feel so good. I never had a bad time on heroin it's just all the negative outside effects that the heroin/pills create such as bad health, spending money and lying that made it so bad for me. I also found my mind saying that heroin isn't actually bad. That everyone else has it wrong that heroin is bad. The feeling eventually subsided, but man this is a tough process for sure!
I am looking for anyone else that has had a similar feeling/experience with their doc and how they dealt with it in order to remain sober?
27 days and there are so many ups and downs. My addictive voice can be strong. As I recover from my addictions my body is also starting to heal and I can start to see some of the swelling in my arms where I used to stick a needle go down and my veins come back. This is having both a positive and negative effect.
Positive= I am getting healthy and I have my family back. Negative= To be frank and honest, seeing a nice plump vein makes me want to stick a needle in it.
Today when I had a vein pop up I started to think if I was still using I would have been so happy to see it. It made me fantasize about heroin for about an hour. It also made me feel sad to think that I would never get to feel that warm feeling that heroin makes you feel. Because I have to be honest heroin makes you feel so good. I never had a bad time on heroin it's just all the negative outside effects that the heroin/pills create such as bad health, spending money and lying that made it so bad for me. I also found my mind saying that heroin isn't actually bad. That everyone else has it wrong that heroin is bad. The feeling eventually subsided, but man this is a tough process for sure!
I am looking for anyone else that has had a similar feeling/experience with their doc and how they dealt with it in order to remain sober?
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It took allot to find something to outweigh the value of "feel good now". When I was honest, I had to admit that this urge was incredibly selfish. It was all about me.
Most of us clean up our acts due to selfish reasons which typically have to do with the consequences of our use. That's all fine and good. Staying that way long term required more, at least for me.
I needed to find something to get me through the times that I had the fvckits. Those times when I did not care about anything or anyone including myself. That will, of necessity, be different things for different people. It was difficult for me to find. I think in most cases it has something to do with the greater good, and less about ourselves. That's what it took for me anyway.
Most of us clean up our acts due to selfish reasons which typically have to do with the consequences of our use. That's all fine and good. Staying that way long term required more, at least for me.
I needed to find something to get me through the times that I had the fvckits. Those times when I did not care about anything or anyone including myself. That will, of necessity, be different things for different people. It was difficult for me to find. I think in most cases it has something to do with the greater good, and less about ourselves. That's what it took for me anyway.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,360
Heroine is out of my league Beddy. I know that is a tough one. Since you asked about my doc which was alcohol I will tell you that fantasizing about it would have a recipe for disaster for me. I have to cut off the thoughts of what it is like to feel that high before it has time to take hold.
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Originally Posted by silentrun
Heroine is out of my league Beddy. I know that is a tough one. Since you asked about my doc which was alcohol I will tell you that fantasizing about it would have a recipe for disaster for me. I have to cut off the thoughts of what it is like to feel that high before it has time to take hold.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted by beddy3484
I am looking for anyone else that has had a similar feeling/experience with their doc and how they dealt with it in order to remain sober?
That is your addiction speaking. We all have battled that demon.
I cannot go down that path. I did that one time in early sobriety, but I don't let it happen any more. Recovery includes finding ways to shut that down when it pops up. The memory cannot be romanced. The details and euphoric recall have to be put aside.
I immediately get busy - hard exercise - chores - but definitely change my thoughts as soon as I recognize them. Think of something that is good for you. I think of my favorite place or good memories - in detail.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
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Focusing on the euphoric feeling is pure AV, literally. If you step back and look at what is being said through a rational and objective mindset the pov will change radically. Take the negative consequences associated with and coupled to the experience of the euphoria and realize they are inseparable. The feeling , the immediate experience of being under the influence of your doc is so pleasurable ,at a certain level, that price we are willing to pay for continuing that experience is limitless, that is the addiction. The AV will not care if that price literally kills you, it just needs you to pay it. The AV doesn't and will never give a shtt about any negative consequences, but you can and do. You got this, the price for the good and temporary feelings of intoxication are just too gd high, anything that doesn't recognize is lying/wrong and is willing to spend your life as the price for getting it.
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