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Probably a stupid question...

Old 02-08-2014, 01:23 AM
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Probably a stupid question...

What does secular mean? I've been looking for a definition of it on here and not seeing one. Does it mean non-religious? Or non-spiritual all together? Or something else? Even the dictionary definition confuses me. Thanks!
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:18 AM
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Secular means apart from and/or unrelated to religion. It doesn't necessarily mean atheist but lots of people use it in that manner. Secular recovery would imply a method that doesn't rely on "grace" or help from supernatural entities (ie God).
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:25 AM
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In my most general understanding and in the context of this site, secular simply means "not AA".

Using a greatly over simplified interpretation, there are two general recovery approaches: 1) the AA/12 step approach that is based on admitting powerlessness over alcohol and on turning one's life and will over to the care of God; and 2) everything that is NOT the traditional AA/12 Step approach, which includes rational recovery, SMART, LifeRing, etc. The secular approaches are generally favored by those who want to be empowered, are atheist or agnostic, and/or prefer a rational/logical recovery method.

This gets confusing because it is applied along a range of adherence. There are atheists in AA and there are religious people who follow a secular recovery approach. There are secular interpretations of the twelve steps. There are people in AA who use the secular recovery tools and people following secular approaches who use AA tools. People put together an approach that works for them.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:14 AM
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For me it means non religious and not based or focused on any belief in the supernatural.

I believe that I have a spiritual aspect, and that spirituality is a function of the brain. I can use that brain function to my benefit in recovery as well as in other areas of life, but it does not connect me to some supernatural power.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Riverbird View Post
What does secular mean? I've been looking for a definition of it on here and not seeing one. Does it mean non-religious? Or non-spiritual all together? Or something else?
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/secular-12-step-recovery/306120-what-secular.html
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:22 AM
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Maybe this can help, Riverbird.
1. We accept the fact that all our efforts to stop drinking have failed.

2. We believe that we must turn elsewhere for help.

3. We turn to our fellow men and women, particularly those who have struggled with the same problem.

4. We have made a list of the situations in which we are most likely to drink.

5. We ask our friends to help us avoid those situations.

6. We are ready to accept the help they give us.

7. We honestly hope they will help.

8. We have made a list of the persons we have harmed and to whom we hope to make amends.

9. We shall do all we can to make amends, in any way that will not cause further harm.

10. We will continue to make such lists and revise them as needed.

11. We appreciate what our friends have done and are doing to help us.

12. We, in turn, are ready to help others who may come to us in the same way.

B.F. Skinner
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:28 AM
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Webster’s definition of secular is “of or relating to the worldly or temporal”. In other words, to things that exist in space and time. The only thing that we know of, which inhabits a world outside of space and time, is light.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Maybe this can help, Riverbird.
1. We accept the fact that all our efforts to stop drinking have failed.

2. We believe that we must turn elsewhere for help.

3. We turn to our fellow men and women, particularly those who have struggled with the same problem.

4. We have made a list of the situations in which we are most likely to drink.

5. We ask our friends to help us avoid those situations.

6. We are ready to accept the help they give us.

7. We honestly hope they will help.

8. We have made a list of the persons we have harmed and to whom we hope to make amends.

9. We shall do all we can to make amends, in any way that will not cause further harm.

10. We will continue to make such lists and revise them as needed.

11. We appreciate what our friends have done and are doing to help us.

12. We, in turn, are ready to help others who may come to us in the same way.

B.F. Skinner
Is this what is meant by the secular 12 steps? I guess that's the part that really confuses me...since I thought that the 12 steps, by definition, are spiritual. I am definitely not a religious person, but I do have a higher power. The best I can describe my higher power without taking a ton of time is the spirit of nature...basically that feeling of awe that I feel when I go out somewhere especially beautiful, which to me shows me that there's so much more to this world than just me. Along with that, the idea that everything and everyone is made up of particles of various elements, that when you get right down to it are really just energy and electrical charges, shows me the spiritual element that connects us all. So I've always been a bit confused about where I "fit". I guess it doesn't matter in the big picture...mostly just a curiosity. I am looking at that link that was posted, but honestly that all confuses me even more!

Thanks everyone for your help.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:58 PM
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It sounds as if your Higher Power is similar to mine. There's nothing wrong with that and never had an issue with a sponsor.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:34 AM
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Means Higher Power, not a religion. Your own conception of a higher power, unrelated to a church, or the bible, priest etc or organized religious organizations. There are well over 500 organizations that follow exactly the original 12 step program. Some of the few off the top of my head are.
NA, CA, Nicotine Anonymous, Debtors, Sex, Gambling, Alanon, Alateen, Co-Dependancy, Enablers, Over Eaters, Bulemia.

So you got internet, type in in the search field. Takes 2 seconds. Define Secular.

sec·u·lar


/ˈsekyələr/


adjective

adjective: secular



1.



denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.

"secular buildings"




synonyms:

nonreligious, areligious, lay, temporal, worldly, earthly, profane; More


formallaic

"secular music"





antonyms:

holy, religious





2.



Christian Church

(of clergy) not subject to or bound by religious rule; not belonging to or living in a monastic or other order.




3.



Astronomy

of or denoting slow changes in the motion of the sun or planets.




4.



Economics

(of a fluctuation or trend) occurring or persisting over an indefinitely long period.

"there is evidence that the slump is not cyclical but secular"




5.



occurring once every century or similarly long period (used esp. in reference to celebratory games in ancient Rome).



noun

noun: secular; plural noun: seculars



1.



a secular priest.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:31 PM
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The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.

As for your question, what's the difference? Take what you need and leave the rest.
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:50 PM
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Worldly works for me.

As for recovery, all my experiences indicate that its up to me to find (worldly) resources to stay sober. I seek no outside help from the supernatural because I have found none there to seek.

The quote below rings true with me.
"Non-theism is relaxing with the ambiguity and uncertainty of the present moment without reaching for anything to protect ourselves. ... Nontheism is finally realizing there is no babysitter you can count on."
-Pema Chödrön
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:35 PM
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As #3 in your tag line suggests Zencat, AA spirituality does not necessarily imply the supernatural.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...where-god.html
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Old 04-19-2014, 03:40 PM
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Lol, I'm watching Cash Cab as I type. Immediately (seconds) after I submitted that last post, the following question was asked:

Q) What ideology maintains the existence of God is unknowable.
A) Agnostic.

Coincidence? I dunno, lol.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dSober View Post
As #3 in your tag line suggests Zencat, AA spirituality does not necessarily imply the supernatural.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...where-god.html


"God as you understand Him" IMO, has nebulous possibilities, some of them involve a secular understanding of Him.

I go with: "God and Good are synonymous and found in all of us". From there My HP is my inner ability to have a Higher Potential for spiritual growth. With that 'understanding' I'm well on my way through the steps.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:02 AM
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[QUOTE=Zencat;4607526I go with: "God and Good are synonymous and found in all of us". [/QUOTE]

Someone in another thread noted: devil == evil but the devil stole a "d" for himself. God == Good but He gave us something extra with the "o". Sounds Good to me.
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:36 PM
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Good question i actually never knew what the secular 12 steps were
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Old 04-26-2014, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 13unluckyforsom View Post
Good question i actually never knew what the secular 12 steps were
I still don't. According to Webster's:

sec·u·lar adjective \ˈse-kyə-lər\

: not spiritual : of or relating to the physical world and not the spiritual world

: not religious


I'm afraid I don't see how step 3 can work with this. I tried for years. In retrospect, I worked around it and stopped drinking for short periods but could never feel stopped, feel like the obsession had been lifted, until I finally bought into step 3 as it is written in the Big Book.
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Old 04-26-2014, 06:37 PM
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What is step 3 in the big book? I was referring to the 12 secular steps as shown in page 1 - I'd never read them before.
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Old 04-26-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dSober View Post
I still don't. According to Webster's:

sec·u·lar adjective \ˈse-kyə-lər\

: not spiritual : of or relating to the physical world and not the spiritual world

: not religious


I'm afraid I don't see how step 3 can work with this. I tried for years. In retrospect, I worked around it and stopped drinking for short periods but could never feel stopped, feel like the obsession had been lifted, until I finally bought into step 3 as it is written in the Big Book.
Aside from step 1, parts of steps 4 and 5, and step 10, I too fail to see how a secularist can practice the 12 steps in any meaningful way.
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