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A New Kind of GOD

Old 10-31-2013, 12:21 PM
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:58 PM
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There's a big problem with talking about making up your own meaning for God, whether it be Good Orderly Direction or anything else.

That is the dictionary. Look up God in any dictionary and you'll see that it says something along the lines of "one Supreme Being, the Creator and Ruler of the universe, usually worshiped".

Now you can make up a new definition if you want, just like I can make up a new definition for "potato" to be "a flying machine with a jet engine".

If language means anything it is that we have shared meanings and defintions to words. You can't just make up your own definitions, without speaking nonsense.

Far better to change the steps in your mind from "God" to "Higher Power", when you hear then read out. Higher Power is capable of any interpretation you want.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:25 PM
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I can't find god in my dictionary.
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:21 PM
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How can someone who can't even quit drinking be expected to decide on the creator of the universe, and anything will do. Should that not be considered encouraging delusional thinking. How could they possibly know what no one could possibly know.

Isn't the whole thing just to encourage the power of belief in something greater than yourself?
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Philip897 View Post
If language means anything it is that we have shared meanings and defintions to words. You can't just make up your own definitions, without speaking nonsense.
I now understand why the Hindu's have over over 300 names for God. It is not that they believe in 300 different Gods, they simply believe that any name for God serves as a temporary pointer to the one ultimate Godhead that is beyond definition. One's concept of God should change many times during the course of one's lifetime. They teach their children to start out with faith in a simple God and change Gods every few years as their understanding grows. Some of the names for God are not safe for neophytes to contemplate without considerable education and experience.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne View Post
How can someone who can't even quit drinking be expected to decide on the creator of the universe, and anything will do. Should that not be considered encouraging delusional thinking. How could they possibly know what no one could possibly know.

Isn't the whole thing just to encourage the power of belief in something greater than yourself?
The "Good Old Deity" that my church gave me was absolutely no use to me in recovery. The GOD's that did help me were;

Gift Of Desperation - aka humility

Good Orderly Direction - aka sponsor

Guider Of Decisions - aka principles in all my affairs.
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne View Post
How can someone who can't even quit drinking be expected to decide on the creator of the universe, and anything will do. Should that not be considered encouraging delusional thinking. How could they possibly know what no one could possibly know.

Isn't the whole thing just to encourage the power of belief in something greater than yourself?
The steps are in a particular order.

1st step stops the drinking - 2nd step is the acknowledgement that there is something outside myself that has the power to assist me in my healing third step is the defining of my higher power.

So yes, it is a lot to ask someone who is still drinking. Those folks need to take the first step first, then the second, then the third.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Boleo View Post
The "Good Old Deity" that my church gave me was absolutely no use to me in recovery. The GOD's that did help me were;

Gift Of Desperation - aka humility

Good Orderly Direction - aka sponsor

Guider Of Decisions - aka principles in all my affairs.


Oh, I have no idea Boleo, you forgot more about this stuff than I know. I had to go back to the school of "I DON'T KNOW". There's a debate on here with Harris, Hutchens and 2 Jewish Rabbis. They go on for an hour and 37 minutes discussing "Is there an afterlife" and the conclusion is no one really knows. It's on this page if anyone is interested in this stuff.

samharris.org - YouTube
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Philip897 View Post
There's a big problem with talking about making up your own meaning for God, whether it be Good Orderly Direction or anything else.

That is the dictionary. Look up God in any dictionary and you'll see that it says something along the lines of "one Supreme Being, the Creator and Ruler of the universe, usually worshiped".
That's a pretty limited way of thinking of and defining God! Even the notion that there's only one God (with a capital 'G') is a pretty recent 'innovation' in the grand scheme of things. For hundreds of thousands of years humans had variously no god, many gods, and belief in many entities that can't be neatly codified in English. Even the earliest references I can find to monotheistic religions (dating back to the earliest Jews and one Egyptian pharoa that declared there to be only one God) only worshipped one god, but it was understood even by them that there were others. Early adherents to the Pentatuke/Torah felt that gods could only be addressed and heard while you in their own lands. Eventually over time Western religions evolved to the point that they asserted only one diety exists at all. but that's only one point of view, and at least half the world doesn't share it.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:20 AM
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Loved these words when I read them
"I am talking about the quality of recovery (as in time spent free of thoughts of drinking). It is this new freedom and new happiness that gives us our real benchmark for recovery".
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Boleo View Post
After hearing hundreds of people talk about their particular Higher Power, it occurred to me: We aren't just talking about different Gods, we are talking about completely unique paradigms for GOD.

When religious people talk about God, they usually start out with a paradigm that presupposes a Supreme Being. Some form of Super Human being with most of the characteristics of being human, just more so. However, when people in recovery talk about Higher Power, they are talking about paradigms so diverse, that they are venturing into a whole new Being of being (whatever that entails).

My own personal concept has changed so much, so many times, during recovery that it no longer resembles a Supreme Being anymore. It is more like a hidden force of nature that religious people would consider Pantheism. I am now considered an atheist in some circles.

I have come to appreciate that we alcoholics are blessed with a weakness that can also be used as a strength or measuring tool. When we make progress in recovery, we experience a release from the obsession to drink. When I say progress, I am not talking about the quantity of sobriety (such as is in calender days of abstinence). I am talking about the quality of recovery (as in time spent free of thoughts of drinking). It is this new freedom and new happiness that gives us our real benchmark for recovery.

It is this new benchmark for recovery that allows us to see just how powerful or new Higher Power really is. As we progress away from the obsession to drink, we progress towards a new Higher Power that becomes our new Being of being.

God goes from being some Super Guy, to being some Super Guidance. Some call it Good Orderly Direction. I call it my new Guider Of Decisions. When I stop guiding my own decisions, I stop playing God. When I have a new Guider Of Decisions, God stops playing God to.

Thanks - on so many levels. Thanks.....
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:29 PM
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Thank you all. I enjoyed reading this thread immensely.

I am still in search of my Higher Power...
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:30 PM
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Hmmm. No one's posted anything to this thread for a while, so I guess I'll throw in my 3 cents worth (adjusted for inflation).

I've always believed in some Higher Power that drives the universe. MythofSysiphus said something about the stars & planets running around obeying some "set of rules", but he (or she) doesn't offer any theory about where these "rules" may have originated.

Religion nearly obliterated my belief system. I looked at a lot of different religions and couldn't identify with ANY of them. They all seemed to have some sort of anthropomorphized "God" and I couldn't understand how any "God" could allow the suffering and misery that is all around us. I stayed lost for many years. I gave up looking.

I tried AA for a couple of years and couldn't stay sober. I realized later that this was because I still wanted to drink more than I wanted sobriety. My last drunk lasted just over 2 years and at the end of that time I decided to put a shotgun in my mouth and end the suffering. At that same moment I had that moment of sparkling clarity that the big book of AA talks about. I heard a voice, loud and clear, that simply said "You don't have to live this way anymore if you don't want to". The thought certainly didn't come from me (although Jung might say differently).

I'd heard those words many times before in the rooms of AA. I went back to AA that evening and haven't had a drink since. But I digress.

I still had the "God" thing to get over. The best example I found of my Higher Power came from Hollywood and not any religion. When I had watched George Lucas' "Star Wars" movies, somehow "The Force" resonated with me. It not only had it's Good side, but also the Dark side, either of which could be harnessed and used. It explained (in a way that made some sense to me, at least) the evil that existed as well as the good.

I truly believe that there is some force out there that influences everything around us and provides the immutable laws of nature and the "set of rules" mentioned above.

It may sound corny to some (maybe many), but it has worked for me for many years. I do believe that the soul lives on after physical death. I believe that it is reunited with this mysterious "force" (what religious folk would call heaven). I also believe in hell, not as a physical place bad people go to after physical death, but as a state of mind we occupy when influenced by the dark side. The big book of AA talks about the "pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization" and the terrible 4 horsemen "Terror, Frustration, Bewilderment and Despair" we all feel at the end. That's hell.

I've been a sober member of AA for a long time now and have no problem reconciling "God" as I understand Him. This has worked well for me. Whether or not is will for you is not for me to guess.

If this helps anyone, I'm grateful. If not, just move on to the next post and the next until you find what it is you are seeking.

May the Force be with you!
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ratdog View Post
I've always believed in some Higher Power that drives the universe. MythofSysiphus said something about the stars & planets running around obeying some "set of rules", but he (or she) doesn't offer any theory about where these "rules" may have originated.

I'm not referring to "rules" in the sense that a photon will get a speeding ticket if it exceeds the speed of light, handed out by some cosmic cop. Rule is just an anthropomorphism that humans use to describe the fact that the physical universe seems to be bound by precepts that explain how it works. When you wind a watch are there "rules" that say it will run and tell time?

I think it's another flaw/peculiarity of the human mind to think that everything must "originate" in ways we can understand. It boggles our limited human minds to think something has no beginning, that's true (although somehow many religions give god/God a pass to do just that), but sometimes the only answer we can really offer is "I don't know."
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:53 AM
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Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today

ratdog quote:
"It may sound corny to some (maybe many), but it has worked for me for many years. I do believe that the soul lives on after physical death. I believe that it is reunited with this mysterious "force" (what religious folk would call heaven). I also believe in hell, not as a physical place bad people go to after physical death, but as a state of mind we occupy when influenced by the dark side. The big book of AA talks about the "pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization" and the terrible 4 horsemen "Terror, Frustration, Bewilderment and Despair" we all feel at the end. That's hell."

I like your concept ratdog cause it doesn't matter what we call it, hp, force, et al. We wanted to be it but it never wanted to be us.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:41 AM
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i have no way of proving that there is a God but there is nothing new about God. Consciousness is taken for granted. Concsiousness is not a function of the brain. Then computers would have consciousness . Ego is a function of the brain. If you want to worship a program that is fine but that is not God.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:01 PM
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I dunno that there's any reasonable way to say that consciousness isn't a function of the brain. So are we've never found consciousness (ie a mind) anywhere but in a brain, if we can truly say we can "find it" at all. The fact that computers don't have sentience really has nothing to do with it; the bulk of AI researchers think that we will see conscious, sentient computers when computers become powerful enough.

Consciousness is actually pretty complicated; we all seem to understand what it is but it's slippery to define and difficult to really understand. Like a fish that has no framework to understand water, we really grapple with consciousness since it's the "medium" we exist in. Without it it's impossible to ponder it.

I think a good analogy is that consciousness is to the brain as light is to a bulb. Generated by the latter with no independent existence. Break the bulb and the light goes out- the light doesn't really "reside" in the bulb, it's created by the bulb. I don't think our soul "resides" in the brain; the mind is generated by the brain in a very complex way. It's software running on a wet computer.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MythOfSisyphus View Post
I dunno that there's any reasonable way to say that consciousness isn't a function of the brain. So are we've never found consciousness (ie a mind) anywhere but in a brain, if we can truly say we can "find it" at all. The fact that computers don't have sentience really has nothing to do with it; the bulk of AI researchers think that we will see conscious, sentient computers when computers become powerful enough.

Consciousness is actually pretty complicated; we all seem to understand what it is but it's slippery to define and difficult to really understand. Like a fish that has no framework to understand water, we really grapple with consciousness since it's the "medium" we exist in. Without it it's impossible to ponder it.

I think a good analogy is that consciousness is to the brain as light is to a bulb. Generated by the latter with no independent existence. Break the bulb and the light goes out- the light doesn't really "reside" in the bulb, it's created by the bulb. I don't think our soul "resides" in the brain; the mind is generated by the brain in a very complex way. It's software running on a wet computer.
Oh boy, I'm way out of my league here. GOD ... good ole days?

Question: Are all mammals sentient beings?
Does your dog have feelings? Does your dog have a conscience?
Do dogs believe in god?

"I think therefor I am" - impossible logically.

Just don't drink, it doesn't really matter. <== choose this one.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LBrain View Post
Oh boy, I'm way out of my league here. GOD ... good ole days?

Question: Are all mammals sentient beings?
Does your dog have feelings? Does your dog have a conscience?
Do dogs believe in god?

"I think therefor I am" - impossible logically.

Just don't drink, it doesn't really matter. <== choose this one.
I think you are mixing up conscious as in awareness and conscience as in morals. Two very different words and meanings.
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:54 PM
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Hahaha! Sorry everyone. Not trying to debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I just can't help going "down the rabbit hole" a bit when matters verging on philosophy come up. Philosophy of mind and the matter of consciousness are pretty interesting subjects to me. Between Dr. Daniel Dennett and Dr. Daniel N. Robinson there are some fascinating books on the topic. Neuroscience is starting to encroach on ground that used to be the sole domain of philosophers and theologians.

At any rate, back to the regularly scheduled topic, already in progress!
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