Go Back   SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information > Secular Recovery > Secular 12 Step Recovery
Forgot Password? Join Us!
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read Chat Room


Welcome to the Sober Recovery Community

Already registered? Login above ---^
OR
To take advantage of all Posting, Chatting, Gaming, and all the features available at SoberRecovery, join the over 100,000 current members, and become a member of our supportive community today! Ads will no longer appear on the forums, once you register.



Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-04-2012, 04:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 278
Taoism and a Higher Power ?

I am struggling with step 2. Philosophical Taoism does not refer to deities. I can see my Higher Power as being the way of the natural world, living in universal harmony and going with the flow. But is steps 6, and 7, I am asked to pray to this H.P. and have my 'defects' removed. How would a Taoist approach this, I wonder. I can see awareness being a tool. When I am aware of my shortcomings I can choose healthier behaivors...but that is me doing it...not a God removing it from me. Any takes on the steps from a Taoist point of view?
Windblown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 06:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
NatalieN's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida US
Posts: 296
I would love to read some answers to that question. Today, at an AA meeting, I said the Lord's prayer and added the words 'and our mother' after 'our father'. It 'felt' better than not saying a word while holding hands. An agnostic friend suggested that.

Two people who shared great stuff during the meeting, walked out right after the last share and before the holding of hands and prayer.

My higher power is the mystery of our creation, whatever force or energy propelled us into existence from star dust. Sometimes I long for a different view. I am convinced it's possible to long for something that doesn't exist, even if you know it's a crush. Sometimes crushes feel good and lighten one's load. Sometimes I wish I wasnt such a big skeptic.

Natalie
NatalieN is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
Laozi Old Man
 
Boleo's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 5,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windblown View Post
Any takes on the steps from a Taoist point of view?
The Tao literally means PATH.

How it Works starts off:

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our PATH."
__________________


>>> If it makes sense - It ain't spiritual!

- All Big Book quotes are from first Edition -
Boleo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Boleo For This Useful Post:
langkah (04-06-2012), Sugah (04-06-2012)
Old 04-06-2012, 11:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 278
Oh so the 12 step program itself is the Tao....or the Way. But what of prayer and the Higher Power. Are you saying I should pray to the program itself?
Windblown is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 01:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
Laozi Old Man
 
Boleo's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 5,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windblown View Post
Oh so the 12 step program itself is the Tao....or the Way. But what of prayer and the Higher Power. Are you saying I should pray to the program itself?
You can pray to any of the following;

The Path
The Way
The Steps
The Program
The Process
The Principles
or "Soft and Invisible Power".

Wu Wei is an important concept of Taoism (Daoism), that involves knowing when to act and when not to act. Another perspective to this is that "Wu Wei" means natural action - as planets revolve around the sun, they "do" this revolving, but without "doing" it; or as trees grow, they "do", but without "doing". Thus knowing when (and how) to act is not knowledge in the sense that one would think "now" is the right time to do "this", but rather just doing it, doing the natural thing.

Wu may be translated as not have or without; Wei may be translated as . The literal meaning of Wu Wei is "without action", "without effort", or "without control", and is often included in the paradox wei wu wei: "action without action" or "effortless doing". The practice of wu wei and the efficacy of wei wu wei are fundamental tenets in Chinese thought and have been mostly emphasized by the Taoist school. The aim of wu wei is to achieve a state of perfect equilibrium, or alignment with the Tao, and, as a result, obtain an irresistible form of "soft and invisible" power.

Wu wei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________


>>> If it makes sense - It ain't spiritual!

- All Big Book quotes are from first Edition -
Boleo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Boleo For This Useful Post:
langkah (04-06-2012)
Old 04-13-2012, 10:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
m1k3's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,825
I am a Buddhist, primarily Pure Land, and what I have used for my higher power is my Dharma Body or inner wisdom. If I meditate and quiet the chatter in my head for a bit the next right thing is always obvious. To be honest I am more in-tune with the eightfold path than I am with the 12 steps but I see many similarities.
__________________
Mike

Sanity is giving up the illusion of control.
Happiness is letting go of the past.
Serenity is just being me.

m1k3 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to m1k3 For This Useful Post:
mecanix (07-27-2012)
Old 07-26-2012, 05:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
4mykids723's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 63
"When I am aware of my shortcomings I can choose healthier behaivors...but that is me doing it...not a God removing it from me."

You just answered your own question
__________________
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" - Buddha

Middle Path Buddhist, AVRT Student, NHP. Sober Date: March 29th, 2014
4mykids723 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 06:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
likwidkool's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Posts: 21
very interesting. I was just at a meeting the other night discussing the 7th step. I shared about not praying to a "God". I won't call myself a Buddhist as I have no teacher, but I practice as much as I know how to. To me it has to do with awareness, and mindfulness. Knowing when when my flaws have arisen, and how to deal with them positively. Trying to act with my mind and not my emotions, and trying to use the spiritual principles I have learned thus far.
likwidkool is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to likwidkool For This Useful Post:
4mykids723 (07-28-2012)
Old 08-26-2012, 12:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
murrill's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 190
Blog Entries: 3
I realize that this discussion has been "asleep" for about one month, but would like to add my $.02 worth. I've only just recently resumed using the Tao for my meditations, and I cannot say that I am particularly fluent or knowledgeable. But I have managed to remain clean and sober with a diety for a long time, so perhaps I can add to this topic.
I don't believe that I am sober today because a diety swooped in and made me sober. I surrendered, and in doing so I made myself available to what the universe had to offer. I tend to use that approach in AA when the language turns to god-things. No one had removed my character defects, but those that are less glaring today are those I have released. It's like having a baloon attached to a string...and letting the wind carry it away. I don't pray to have things removed. I meditate to become willing to let go of them.
murrill is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 05:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Fastenbulbus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 24
Since the word "God" is generic, I use God as a substitute for Tao, or Way. As far as the 5th, 6th, 7th Steps I articulate the prayers and communication as words that are offered to the Tao, and the Tao will do what the Tao will do.

As the old saying goes, "When in Rome do as the Romans do". I don't want to ruffle the feathers of group. Dr. Dwayne Dyer has a book, "Change your thoughts, change your life" based on the Tao.
Fastenbulbus is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 05:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
murrill's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 190
Blog Entries: 3
Funny you should mention Dr. Dyer. I've only recently resurrected his book Living the Wisdom of the Tao. I'm starting from the 1st Verse, spending some time on each one. It has given me comfort today as I've been in an uncomfortable place recently. The "lesson" based on the first verse read I choose to enjoy living the great mystery. The Tao that can be named is not the Tao. I have "gone there"--to the mystery, to the indefinable place--several times today. I have found freedom, if just briefly, in abandoning my resistance.
murrill is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
Fastenbulbus's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 24
Thank! Your post reminded me of one of my favorite quotes. A famous Friedrich Nietzsche quote goes, "And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."

This was a spiritual lesson I learned years ago while reading, of all people, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, who said, "Seek the Seeker".

As in, ".. not only is man seeking God (Tao), but God (Tao) is also seeking man", or something like that. Tao is like water and seeks the lowest way, or the path of least resistance. So if we remove all blockages from our Spirit (alcohol, drugs) and open ourselves to the Universe, the Universe shall come to us, (at least that is the way I am interpreting that).

"First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is" ~ Zen saying
Fastenbulbus is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
murrill's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 190
Blog Entries: 3
If I over-think it, as I am inclined to do, the Tao can be maddening! I find it more palatable to allow its essence to simply wash over me. It is more experiential, I think, and I feel the connectivity of the universe. I have been know to spend a bit too much time in my head, but the Tao cannot be understood from that perspective, I think. Which may be why it appeals to me......
However hard I try to be open-minded & tolerant, I often myself at odds with people of traditional religious orientations. I appreciate the chance to have these conversations.
murrill is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to murrill For This Useful Post:
Fastenbulbus (09-08-2012), freshstart57 (09-05-2012)
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:32 PM.


 
National Drug and Alcohol Treatment Centers
 
Drug Rehab | Best Treatment Center | Detox Center | Residential Treatment Center
Cocaine/Crack Treatment | Alcohol Rehab | Heroin/Oxycontin Treatment Center | Crystal Meth Treatment | Marijuana Treatment | Methadone Treatment | Suboxone Treatment
 
Local Treatment Resources and Events
 
Alabama | Alaska | Arizona | Arkansas | California | Colorado | Connecticut | DC | Delaware
Florida | Georgia | Hawaii | Idaho | Illinois | Indiana | Iowa | Kansas | Kentucky | Louisiana | Maine
Maryland | Massachusetts | Michigan | Minnesota | Mississippi | Missouri | Montana | Nebraska | Nevada | New Hampshire
New Jersey | New Mexico | New York | North Carolina | North Dakota | Ohio | Oklahoma | Oregon | Pennsylvania | Rhode Island
South Carolina | South Dakota | Tennesee | Texas | Utah | Vermont | Virginia | Washington | West Virginia | Wisconsin | Wyoming

© 2013 Internet Brands. | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Health Disclaimer
A proud member of the SoberRecovery® Network of Addiction and Recovery Websites