Ha Ha, Never Scrolled Down this Far

[AA4life]

So, I have never scrolled down past Alcoholism on the main page. Then I see this section. I have to say that I am happy to have found this. I go to AA and live the program to the best of my ability (see my user name) and it really does work if you work it.

I am a physicist, I spent more time in academia than most MDs. I view the world around me as being "a cause and effect" kind of place. It was really tough for me to accept all the spiritual aspects of AA. Still with 18 months sober I am not too sure about the "higher power" stuff. But, when I go to AA meetings and try to use the information that I learn from AA folks I do stay sober! So, I keep going to AA meetings.

I don't know exactly how AA keeps me sober but here is my educated guess. When humans join groups they want to satisfy the norms of the group. In AA the norms of the group include the acknowledgment of having had problems with alcohol and wanting to be different than you were. Another norm is being sober for long periods of time. When humans get together into groups they influence each other. AA is a group that is set up to influence and persuade people about all the negative aspects of alcohol. So, joining the group makes it easier to stay away from the first drink. When one views AA like this then there isn't anything magical going on. AA is just using deep psychological roots embedded in all of us to help us stay sober.

Looking at AA in this way I can see the cause and effect of AA more clearly. I can have more faith in the program's ability to keep me sober.

I showed up at AA because I was very unhappy and couldn't quit drinking. When I go to meetings I don't drink. I think I can see the main reasons why AA is helping me. But, does any of this matter? I don't think so. I wanted to quit drinking and AA helped me stop and keeps me from going back. Sure I get irritated with all of the spirituality/higher power stuff sometimes, but hey, that is a small price to pay for getting my life back.

Thanks to anyone who actually reads my post.

It works if you work it, and with that I will keep coming back. Oh, and AA isn't the only road to sobriety, but happens to be the one that is working for me right now.

I look forward to reading the posts on this section of SR.

[ananda]

glad to see youi here LOL yep scrolling down can be a challenge (snirkle)

Daughter of a physisist here...and alot of times my HP for program work is "the law of cause and effect"....

Your post reminded me of when I was sober the first time and struggling and I took a social psychology class....At that time it explained alot of stuff to me. Not saying thats for everyone, but it did help me at the time to put a framework on what i was expereincing. Of course, eventually I had to step outside the box on that as well....

I think it is key to me that when the program talks about "letting go of your old ideas completely" or "changing playgrounds and playmates" these things need to be done as we move on in sobriety.

The ideas that keep me sober today, may be the very idea's I have to let go of later...

despite the uncomfortableness of the 12 steps as others interprete them for me...I have found that they can lead to continuted sobriety and even to enjoyment of life.

The important thing to me is not letting some imposed structure become a cage instead of the support to opening to new ideas and concepts that it can be.

A bit of going on here..sorry lol...

Anyhow..glad you found us!

[Isaiah]

12 step programs form a sort of invariant symmetry amongst the Higgs boozeons who join.

[AA4life]

Originally Posted by isaiah

12 step programs form a sort of invariant symmetry amongst the higgs boozeons who join.

lmao.

[LTrzczka]

There's no way I can be sober for some god, nor anyone else. I have to do it for myself. I have enjoyed reading your post. The whole "higher power" aspect of AA just turns me off completely. I feel better now that I vented. Thanks!

LT

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by AA4life

I don't know exactly how AA keeps me sober...

Have you ever heard of the "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle"?

AA works pretty much the same way, only more so (LOL!).

[AA4life]

Originally Posted by Boleo

Have you ever heard of the "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle"?

AA works pretty much the same way, only more so (LOL!).

Def heard of the HUP. Hehe.

[AA4life]

Originally Posted by LTrzczka

There's no way I can be sober for some god, nor anyone else. I have to do it for myself. I have enjoyed reading your post. The whole "higher power" aspect of AA just turns me off completely. I feel better now that I vented. Thanks!

LT

I do use the idea of a HP when it helps me. But it is usually something like G-O-D (group-of-drunks).

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by AA4life

I don't know exactly how AA keeps me sober but here is my educated guess. When humans join groups they want to satisfy the norms of the group. In AA the norms of the group include the acknowledgment of having had problems with alcohol and wanting to be different than you were. Another norm is being sober for long periods of time. When humans get together into groups they influence each other. AA is a group that is set up to influence and persuade people about all the negative aspects of alcohol. So, joining the group makes it easier to stay away from the first drink. When one views AA like this then there isn't anything magical going on. AA is just using deep psychological roots embedded in all of us to help us stay sober.

Very well put.

[shockozulu]

Originally Posted by ananda

Daughter of a physisist here...and alot of times my HP for program work is "the law of cause and effect"....

Daughter of a Physicist here too. In fact, planning to go back to study the science myself.

[Onewithwings]

There is a guy in our local AA who always ends his sharing with "Thanks for being my higher power. He doesn't believe in any GOD, per se, but he believes that the power within the group is greater than the sum of its parts. It is as you said, that group has its norms, and it is natural enough to follow the group's norms. (That is often how we get dragged into drinking or drugging in the first place!) That sort of "power greater than myself" can be sufficient for you to work a program. You may have to adjust the steps to suit your beliefs (for instance, in AA's 5th step, you must admit your moral inventory to your higher power. Obviously not too many people would be willing to share their inventory with the group just because the group is their "higher power", but they could make a promise to themselves to share openly bits and pieces of the true and honest feelings about the past. This, to me, is the essence of why the 5th step is effective-- we get honest, and admit our *feelings*. Everybody has baggage, everyone has done right and wrong, has assets and defects. However, we seem to have a different emotional reaction to these actions and situations, that lead us to feel the need to bury our emotions by drinking or drugging. In the 6th and 7th AA steps, our "higher power" takes away our defects. Stick with the winners! Hang out with people who do not display these defects, and you will be less likely to act on them-- that group mentality again. In the 11th step we maintain a closer contact to our "higher power"-- this could be done by committing yourself to stay in contact with others in the program on a regular basis. The more you talk to other alcoholics/addicts, the longer you stay clean and sober! I don't think AA or NA necessitate a GOD, just something greater than yourself, such as the group, or the program. We may have to tweak things (haha-- tweak. Yes, I'm immature.) to make them work for us, but we can still use 12 step recovery. I am not familiar with the secular 12 steps, but I assume they are similar to AA's, just minus the higher power?

In any case, you have to do what works for you. Continue with NA or give this group a shot. Either way, I wish you the best!


... and with that, I'll get my Mormon butt off your forum.

[AA4life]

Originally Posted by Onewithwings

There is a guy in our local AA who always ends his sharing with "Thanks for being my higher power. He doesn't believe in any GOD, per se, but he believes that the power within the group is greater than the sum of its parts. It is as you said, that group has its norms, and it is natural enough to follow the group's norms. (That is often how we get dragged into drinking or drugging in the first place!) That sort of "power greater than myself" can be sufficient for you to work a program. You may have to adjust the steps to suit your beliefs (for instance, in AA's 5th step, you must admit your moral inventory to your higher power. Obviously not too many people would be willing to share their inventory with the group just because the group is their "higher power", but they could make a promise to themselves to share openly bits and pieces of the true and honest feelings about the past. This, to me, is the essence of why the 5th step is effective-- we get honest, and admit our *feelings*. Everybody has baggage, everyone has done right and wrong, has assets and defects. However, we seem to have a different emotional reaction to these actions and situations, that lead us to feel the need to bury our emotions by drinking or drugging. In the 6th and 7th AA steps, our "higher power" takes away our defects. Stick with the winners! Hang out with people who do not display these defects, and you will be less likely to act on them-- that group mentality again. In the 11th step we maintain a closer contact to our "higher power"-- this could be done by committing yourself to stay in contact with others in the program on a regular basis. The more you talk to other alcoholics/addicts, the longer you stay clean and sober! I don't think AA or NA necessitate a GOD, just something greater than yourself, such as the group, or the program. We may have to tweak things (haha-- tweak. Yes, I'm immature.) to make them work for us, but we can still use 12 step recovery. I am not familiar with the secular 12 steps, but I assume they are similar to AA's, just minus the higher power?

In any case, you have to do what works for you. Continue with NA or give this group a shot. Either way, I wish you the best!


... and with that, I'll get my Mormon butt off your forum.

I enjoyed your post. See, I am not the only person who thinks like this. There are others...

[jeanmh]

I

[ananda]

hi jean

[tommyl74]

Really enjoy this thread. Thanks!