awuh1

RebellionDog, just a few quick thoughts.

“The Spiritual Experience Appendix was an attempt to tone down this evangelical tone.” No, actually that appendix was a clarification regarding different types of spiritual experiences/awakenings. Bill had no need to apologize for an “evangelical tone” in the book because there was never an attempt to have anyone believe in any specific sort of higher power.

Bill did apologize for a sort of arrogance, but a careful reading of that same article (and other references regarding AA history) point to his behavior primarily during the first few months of his sobriety (before he met Dr. Bob). He was preaching at drunks and getting no success. Then he got advice from Dr. Silkworth to stop the preaching. When he did so AA began to grow. The arrogance to which Bill was referring took place “In AA's first years “. They are the years Bill referred to as the “flying blind” period, before the book was written.

While I respect everyone's right to personal beliefs, I don't have to buy into them. I feel exactly the same way about your beliefs, I respect them but I don't have to buy into them. What's more, I can do so without using derisive words to characterize them.

zerothehero

I visit the secular forums to have friendly conversations with other secularists, but it seems most threads here get pounced on by folks who want to point out that we're dead wrong and should believe in a Higher Power, or to otherwise defend the nonsecular elements of AA. Just sayin'...

(I am guilty of once visiting the Christian forum and making a comment about leaving AA meetings before The Lord's Prayer, but I didn't feel good about the comment later, and have not returned to that forum. Just sayin'.)

awuh1

Interesting observation Zero. Perhaps you could point to a few recent instances of someone who "want(ed) to point out that we're dead wrong and should believe in a Higher Power". Well, maybe just one? This year? My beliefs are evidenced based, and I seem to have missed that. All the more my falt for not seeing this if this happens often.

It seems to me that the references to non secular aspects of the AA program are typically first brought up by people with a secular perspective. That's all well and good, but you seem to imply that other folks should not respond to those references, even if they are false or misleading. Sorry but have to disagree.

All forums (with the exception of the men's and women's forums) are open to anyone. At least that's my understanding. I think that's a good policy. It helps to encourage the free flow of ideas and it keeps people honest (for the most part).

No single perspective has a corner on the truth. I'm glad that AA places a high value on tolerance. We all get a chance to learn something that way.

zerothehero

Case in point. I guess it's time for me to just stay away from the circular arguments. I just get annoyed. Adios, as they say...

graced333

Thank you Zero. You express yourself so well. Your words help this scattered, recovering mind of mine.

graced333

Might I add, this is my experience, AA in my area is sparse and not very tolerant. What is working for me is following the Buddhist path and I am only just beginning that.

zerothehero

Thanks, graced. You might try Noah Levine's book about Refuge Recovery. It's a nice Buddhist alternative to 12 Steps. Also, Kevin Griffin's book about Buddhism and the 12 Steps. For something more purely about Buddhist practice I like Turning the Mind into an Ally by Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche. Happy being!

tate9685

going to check these out thanks

zerothehero

I should clarify that Rinpoche's book is about meditation practice from the perspective of a westernized Shambhala practice. Shambhala is akin to or a type of Buddhism from Tibet that was kind of resurrected and adapted for westerners by Sakyong's father, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. See Shambhala - Vision, Lineage, Meditation, Community for more information, but the essence of the practice is secular, so a lot of people who practice Shambhala do not necessarily consider themselves Buddhist.

LastDrinks

Affirmations are a good substitute for prayer. Instead of praying for a 'higher power' to help you are affirming to one's self to help one's self. Funnily enough this is best done with the words I AM... which many believe to be derived from Yahweh aka God.

shockozulu

A couple oldie but goodies

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-12-steps.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ty-prayer.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ep-prayer.html

zerothehero

Instead of prayer, I've been trying to practice frequent and spontaneous expressions of gratitude. I don't need to thank anything or anyone in particular; I simply remind myself to be thankful for whatever good is happening in the moment, like the food I'm eating, or fresh air, or that I am able to walk without pain...

shockozulu

I still do this. Sometimes I will simply say a certain word in my head of what I'm grateful for. "Beautiful" or "Joy." I also have daily habits to take me outside of my self. One is to log onto Facebook and find a person in need of uplifting. Maybe a friend who is sad over a family member's recent death or a relative who just had outpatient surgery and in need of a few minutes of texting so they don't feel so alone as they recover at home. Just some texting while I'm drinking my Starbucks before work. I also do Photo-a-day, in which people are given the same word or brief phase every day and take a photo to paste on Instagram or Facebook group. I love seeing all the different interpretations of a word such as "free" which it was today.