Creating God or having a God of my understanding?

[Zencat]

Whats the difference if there is one?

I have pondered this question for it has been brought up on other recovery sites I belong to. I see the difference in such a question being one of awareness vs. imagination. I have an awareness attuned to the constituencies of what God is. This awareness is reveled in nature and in literature. Both bring me closer to my understanding. Both bring me to a realization. As for creating God, I see that a function of imagination (lack of a better word). A wish to extend ones desires into the realm of mystical proportions. That is to have a God based on want...a want that satisfy ones pleasure or ego. A God that fits neatly within the confines of ones pleasure or within the confining space of ones ego.

Your views are welcome, as I know SR has some very wise people here. I know my thoughts are incomplete but I'm looking forward to some expanded views on this topic. Please share freely.

[Bamboozle]

*lurking*

[doorknob]

I'm gonna second whatever Windy has to say.

[Eroica]

Because you can't ever show your God to someone or prove His existence every HP is a product of the imagination. When someone goes outside, they might see "God" at work in everyday miracles..but this is the mind attempting to bring meaning into someone that awes us. Humans naturally want an exaplanation for everything. Thats why they invented supernatural causes.

People don't like the Judeo Christian God.. Thats the main reason people choose another deity. They still want religion in their life but not such a vengeful/spiteful one. lol

[Eroica]

Even if you look at the Christian or Muslim or Jewish God.. People of those faiths can have markedly different understandings of the same God. My parents are Muslim, but they don't condone any militant actions by "Islamist" groups. The terrorist who killed an abortion doctor today probably has a very different understanding of God than your average peaceful Christian. Does a Catholic in Peru think of God the same way as one in Poland?? In African American churches God seems drastically different-more approachable, more human some would argue than the Anglo christian god.

So yea.. imagination... and culture.

[digderidoo]

I think the conflict of a higher power or God comes into play when we confuse the notion of a Judeo-Christian God that we have all come to know.

A God of my understanding to me is unknown and i'm comfortable with this now. Whereas trying to understand what God is means that maybe you are creating one. How can we ever have an understanding of God? It then becomes either an understanding of another persons views or a creation of our own.

My higher power is an unknown spiritual journey that i can either get aboard or get off. The more i try to understand however is when that higher power becomes a fiction of my imagination.

Paul

[ananda]

Originally Posted by digderidoo

My higher power is an unknown spiritual journey that i can either get aboard or get off. The more i try to understand however is when that higher power becomes a fiction of my imagination.

Paul

I love that paul....thank you it fits very well with where i am currently at on my journey.

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by Eroica

Because you can't ever show your God to someone or prove His existence every HP is a product of the imagination. When someone goes outside, they might see "God" at work in everyday miracles..but this is the mind attempting to bring meaning into someone that awes us.

A God of the mind can encapsulate many things that are God worthy or not. Yet it is the mind that distinguishes thus things. But what is it that moves the mind...imagination or perception. Maybe an indeclinable combination of the two?

Then it is experience drenched with interpretation that surmounts imagination beyond a personal realization? Hence God of my understanding.

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by doorknob

I'm gonna second whatever Windy has to say.

I'm willing to second guess what windy will say with this:

Now with esoteric opinions about God!

[Pagekeeper]

Imagination is a form of awareness. It's awareness in symbols. Problem is, people often mistake the symbol for the experience, or they think the symbol is the experience. For example, take the word COW. The word COW is a symbol; it's not an actual cow. A cow, the mammal, is not a word. To know what a cow is, one must experience a cow. They must see a cow or smell it or hear it moo or watch it grazing or drink its milk. The word COW cannot be smelled, touched, tasted, heard or understood on its own.

Another example . . .

上帝

What does that mean?

One can imagine it means all sorts of things, can they not? They can create meaning for it and whatever meaning they create is true because it's a symbol. They can use this symbol to represent an experience. Any experience--it really doesn't matter because the symbol is not the thing; it simply gives a concrete form to the experience.

That is what I mean when I say God, for me, is an experience.

[paulmh]

have pondered this question for it has been brought up on other recovery sites I belong to. I see the difference in such a question being one of awareness vs. imagination. I have an awareness attuned to the constituencies of what God is. This awareness is reveled in nature and in literature. Both bring me closer to my understanding. Both bring me to a realization. As for creating God, I see that a function of imagination (lack of a better word). A wish to extend ones desires into the realm of mystical proportions. That is to have a God based on want...a want that satisfy ones pleasure or ego. A God that fits neatly within the confines of ones pleasure or within the confining space of ones ego.

I've read this half a dozen times and I still don't understand it. And I don't understand what question you're asking either?

I must be thicker than I thought!

[stone]

Originally Posted by paulmh

I've read this half a dozen times and I still don't understand it. And I don't understand what question you're asking either?

I must be thicker than I thought!

I think he means is there a difference between being open to finding god and inventing a god?

Even if we are open to experiencing god, do we then invent god through our interpretations of the experience?

Type of thing, lol.

[paulmh]

Oh right, thanks

[stone]

I could be wrong though.

[paulmh]

Maybe Zen will enlighten us..



Sorry, bad pun.

Does it mean that when we are invited, in 12 step recovery, to find a G*d of our understanding, that we have a choice of either inventing one (which would be a pretty godlike activity in its own right, so I guess that's the bit about "ego" in the opening post), or simply finding "understanding", a concept or definition we can "agree" with?

Those two would seem to be too much like "conclusions". Endings. Destinations.

Every time I tried to define G*d, I did him - and me - an injustice. I like the purpose of the Tao, the warmth of the Father and the inclusion of the One.

You know what they say - more will be revealed.

[ananda]

I see it as if we expereince god...

oh dang it i understand what he's saying, but i cant say it lol

words are such usless tools at times

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by stone

Even if we are open to experiencing god, do we then invent god through our interpretations of the experience?

That's what I was trying to say. I think in my mind I form an idea of God through my experiences of how God is to be. So how much is this idea of God is a part of my desires or wishes or need to satisfy my ego?

Originally Posted by paulmh

Does it mean that when we are invited, in 12 step recovery, to find a G*d of our understanding, that we have a choice of either inventing one (which would be a pretty godlike activity in its own right, so I guess that's the bit about "ego" in the opening post), or simply finding "understanding", a concept or definition we can "agree" with?

"Agree". Is that to say wanting a understanding of God that I get to pick and choose those attributes of God that please me?

[FightingIrish]

I think I need to be open to it and not feel like I know what it should look like, or that it should look like anything.

This is why I have trouble with the God Squad in A.A. I don't particularly want to hear about your (or anyone's) interpretation of God, and I really don't need you to tell me that it's "God and not Higher Power".

I certainly don't invent it...

M

[stone]

Originally Posted by Zencat

That's what I was trying to say. I think in my mind I form an idea of God through my experiences of how God is to be. So how much is this idea of God is a part of my desires or wishes or need to satisfy my ego?

I was thinking about this recently as I did step 3 again, I know what I don't like the sound of when people share about God and I know what "feels" right to me....but I am starting to think I am placing too narrow a constraint on things, like I think I know all about it already.

[joedris]

Any acknowledgement of a higher power, in this case we're refering to it as God, is a matter of faith. I know this is a computer keyboard that I'm currently using. I believe in the existence of a higher power, and this belief isn't based on an experience but is strictly a matter of faith. I cannot see God, but I can see a tree. I accept that God made the tree as a matter of faith.

If I want to project an image of God in my mind, then this is imagination. I imagine what God looks like but I've never seen him. Our faith is usually determined by enviroment and experience, the enviroment usually referring to our upbringing and education. My higher power is a Christian God who's loving and merciful. I get upset with him because he won't let my drink, but he pays no attention to how I feel about that topic. Your higher power may be something entirely different. Or you may be an athiest or agnostic.

People sometimes get wrapped around the axle when coming to the 3rd step of AA. What we do here is acknowledge that somewhere in this existence of ours there is something that's greater than we are. We could't get sober on our own. We need the help of something that's greater that we are. If we don't accept the fact that we're not the greatest, best thing that has ever existed, then we're in trouble. There's nothing better than we are to turn to for help.

If you want to prove that God exists or doesn't, take it up with a theologian. Sobriety isn't an existential exercise. It's a simple program of recovery. It's a life where we no longer consume alcohol.

[Live]

Okay, I know I am not all powerful.....I am pretty sure that I would have written my life-script differently.

As to the HP question, I really, truly believe it is unknowable; and that is the true definition of an agnostic.

For me, it would take one hell of alot of hubris to say that I know.

I mean, for real, geometry proofs make me want to run and hide.

I am working with a limited mind.

But, I can imagine being on a yacht in the Riviera right now.

And my emotions do register beauty and awe, etc.

As well, as disgust and anger....my point being that emotions are naturally wired in and responsive.

The good and great ones do feel better and more inspiring.

When I was 3 years old...why, why, why this, why that?

Now I am okay with knowing that I just don't know very much of any of that, never will.

If I can handle my behavior in a sane, helpful, compassionate manner for the next hour...I am doing pretty well.
It's enough to keep me busy and ....often confused.

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by joedris

If you want to prove that God exists or doesn't, take it up with a theologian. Sobriety isn't an existential exercise. It's a simple program of recovery. It's a life where we no longer consume alcohol.

That really says it all for me. I have a matter at hand...recovery from alcoholism/drug addiction. As I embark on this life, all concerns of God lay at the wayside. If along the way I find matters concerning God have relevance to my efforts achieving recovery that will be second nature. For it is recovery that will be the first cause, God will either aid or hinder my cause, impinging upon my view. I see the choice is mine.