Counseling 12 Steps

[doorknob]

Alcoholics Anonymous and the Counseling Profession:

[Zencat]

Great link! I'll add that one to my addiction treatment resources bookmark folder.

[SelfSeeking]

Hmmm. Some good points. But I don't feel like these people actually know what they're talking about. It smells of ivory tower b.s. to me.
For instance I think they're poo-pooing the power of "we" in the steps and the program as a whole. For me, that is a huge positive force in AA; *we* are going through these changes together.

I'm not gonna nitpick through the rest with this message, but thanks for posting this, DK; it's given me food for thought. I hope it's helpful for other seculars trying to find a sober path

[Roadhunter]

Great link! The therapist who suggested AA to me will be getting a copy of this. I'm surprised to see someone question that such a group of experienced professionals might not know what they are talking about.
The article does not bash AA, but offers alternatives. Each one is fully explained, and sources are cited. I don't know what more one could ask for in a scientific article.

[yeahgr8]

This is great doorknob!

The suggestions for the steps and how they should be described were great. There should be a non AA, non religious version IMO. If anyone is doing the 12 steps AA or not, as in all 12 steps honestly and completely then, and let's just say there was a non AA group doing it togther with the sponsor method, but no god involved, then i can't see that someone would not be able to stay sober and live a full life.

The problem comes when people try and get sober, not in AA because of the God/HP aspect, and then DO NOT do any of the alternative step descriptions, save from avoiding alcohol at all costs, then IMO this WILL fail at some point. Of course it would IMO be more difficult to do the steps alone, kind of like why an open university degree will never be considered as credible as an institute certified degree i guess hehe

This is assuming that the alcoholic has no underlying conditions either already there or bought on by the years use of alcohol, e.g. depression, anxiety etc. that may need short term treatment by medication.

My counselor advised AA voicing one concern, that i had to watch out for anyone saying that i should not take my short term anti depression medication, which strictly speaking is something that i should not have to rely on to be within AA. I don't dwell on this point though but do cringe at the thought of an alcoholic going to AA with say bi polar and trying to work the steps unmedicated...jeez that would not be good!

[ananda]

I meet with my sponsor tonight, and one thing i spent last night thinking about is that almost all of the people i have met on SR work the 12 steps....sure without a god, sure without a sponsor, sure without AA...thought about writing out for her how I see that everyone is doing it anyways...

Not trying to trap you all in my aa box (snicker)...just that well..don't have time to write it all now, but you know the looking at how we need to change the seeing what our problems are, the working with others who share our condition, its all pretty much there for anyone i see posting here and sticking around.

OK OK i'll read the stuff before i comment anymore DK (grin)

[californiapoppy]

I was just wondering what the twelve steps were, I'll do without FOR SURE, because ages ago when I got iinfo from AA I couldn't go along with most of the ideas in the steps. But since I can't remember I thought I'd look it up in here...thanks for the post DK I can read the steps and their improved version too...but I'll still do without, thank you. I'm counting on SR I guess...

[Stagebear]

Just found this forum and thread. We agree more than we disagree. I can use this big time.

Thanks!

[Fubarcdn]

I only take into consideration the following steps of the 12 step program
1. Admitting that I am powerless AFTER that first drink but not before. I can and do choose to not take that first drink. NOT one day at a time but forever.

4. Take personal inventory and work on correcting the shortcomings. I think that this is the most important thing that a 12 step program has to offer.

8&9 The whole concept of making amends is important for me to move on and these two for me are one Phase.

10 Continuing to right any wrong I make at the time it happens keeps me guilt free. I have always done this but now I have to do it less often.

12 Carrying the message and supporting others who want to quit. This step keeps into focus the end result for me of drinking. I do this daily here in the newcomers section by posting on every welcome related thread and every congratulations thread.
I try to make my post appropriate. If the OP is going the AA route I will encourage that and if not I will talk of how I only use the support of SR as my moral support.

As far as the rest of the steps go I can see how the would be of benefit to someone that is seeking a spiritual recovery but see no reason for people to modify them that are not.

[desertdonna]

I like your approach, Fu. It's much like my own.

If I might take a moment also to voice my appreciation for you. Not only do you give it back by lending support to newcomers, but you always share your honest experience of the solution, i.e. what has worked so far, what you're doing presently, how it benefits you, what your next plan of action is.



Thank you.

Now don't get a big head over it.

Sorry, but I'm a hugger...

Donna

[Fubarcdn]

Thanks Donna.
I am not the type to get a big head.
I am a firm believer of equality in the sense that I am no better than anyone else and nobody else is better than me.
It makes life a lot easier for me that way.
no one upmanship and no jealousy just what it is is what it is.

[nocoincidence56]

Good thread. From my many attempts to get sober over the course of many, many years one thing became clear to me after repeated failures: As long as I was not ready to conceded to my innermost self that I am powerless over my addiction/alcoholism and did not know how to live, the cycle would again and again repeat itself. I know this from my own experience. I was one who decided to pick and choose what was offered me as a course of recovery. I failed. So long as I was closed minded to any/all possible ideas I was screwed. For me it was reaching a point in my suffering where all my reservations/arrogance towards spiritual principles collapsed, defeated. It wasn't that I suddenly believed in the very things I railed against, it was the mechanism failing and simply getting honest with myself, becoming willing to try something different, something "not my way". That is where the old me died and reborn into something different. Too much reaction has been heaped upon dying and being reborn; it is a concept older than religion itself. This is becoming whole within ourselves for the first time. No longer divided within, no longer locked in some endless struggle between the opposites within, unifying-balancing the opposites and finding peace.......

[lunarise]

DK thanks so much for this thread and the link! WOW! Thats all I can say! WOW!

[Live]

Thank you DK!
I found the link very clarifying on many levels.
I now understand my discomfort and reservations far better than I ever have
and also why I have found use of the 12 steps in some aspects.
For my particular problems and struggles...
this is applicable to many things other than alcohol as well.

[coffeenut]

Alright...first of all, why have I been here since September and I just now found this forum? Jeeeeeez.

Second of all, I know very little of the steps. What I do know is a friend who uses them....the way he wants to. For example, he is continually making 'amends' but really doesn't want to...I think he feels like he Has to, not that he Wants to. Big difference.

It brings a whole new set of problems when someone tries to make amends to him. He almost holds the amender hostage until he deems them sufficiently amended.

Really appreciated this link, DK. Thanks.