Steps 5 & 7 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

ananda · 01-02-2009, 07:50 AM

Humm.....am relooking at some stuff...just realized that steps 5 and 7 are a little problematic.

Step 5 involves "admiting to GOD"...so...I just have to sort of fuzz over tht as I cant exactly "admit" to a spiritual path...it's just not that personal...would be like admitting to a chair or a doorknob..makes no since.

Again on step 7....I don't ask GOD to remove my caractor defects...I recognize that the spiritual path will remove my charactor defects ...well sometimes, some of them..but has the power to do so....but I can't truley say I ask it to.

Just having to re-think some things right now....perhaps i'm just getting into word picking here...cause I do "get" the concept...I do believe in the "process" Guess I just wish I had something concrete to lay my hands on at the moment.

So that is where I am at on the 12 steps of godless AA

DharmaQueen · 01-03-2009, 06:05 AM

Yeah, it's kind of tricky for those of us who don't worship a God. I have tried several ways to go about this. One is substitute Reality or Greater Truth for God. It means that you are turning to the greater truth of life that isn't apparent when in the throes of addiction. When you are consciously connecting to the bigger picture of what is real, you will change, or be rid of character defects, because you begin to change from a self-centered world that is all about me to seeing the interconnectedness of it all. So asking God to remove defects is like having realizations of the way the totality of life is beyond the world in my head, and see the ego for what it is, and when I do the defects will fall away. This is rambling, but hope it gives you some things to think about and maybe discuss. Best to you.

doorknob · 01-03-2009, 06:44 AM

Would it be wrong to do the Steps just so I could say that I have?

desertdonna · 01-03-2009, 08:47 AM

You can do anything you want, Paul. Just remember the "rigorous honesty" part.

Hi Ananda,

You know that I haven't worked the steps.

But if it were me:

5) Admit means to declare, be aware of. It's a conscious acknowledgment of behaviors or thoughts that don't benefit me or others. Maybe declare it to yourself, since "god" is “omnipotent,” you by default are an extension of that.

7) I can only extract from this "setting an intention." I don't care for the word "remove." I resonate more with the word "dissolve." As negative (fear-based) thoughts and behaviors diminish, or might seem to be dissolving, the kinder, gentler and more aware I become. However this comes about, I am grateful.

So I would be setting an intention with humility and openness. If "god" is there and listening, "he/she/it/universe/pink unicorn, etc." would certainly know what I mean.

I don't know if this is helpful or drivel, but I think that the importance relies on your action of doing the steps and deriving some kind of meaning from them for you.

"Character defects." Now there are two loaded words.

My favorite from the BB: "going to health farms..."

Thanks for letting me ruminate a bit. Good luck with your steps, Ananda.

Hugs,
Donna

espresso · 01-03-2009, 08:59 AM

AA can be a power greater than yourself

allport · 01-03-2009, 10:10 AM

Loved the bit in House when he was in rehab and his power greater than himself was Andre the Giant.

Silly but funny.

desertdonna · 01-04-2009, 10:24 PM

Hey, I love Andre! He was the gentle giant. My son LOVES wrestling; he and I watched his story on the Discovery Channel. It works for me.

RIP, Andre.

ananda · 03-19-2009, 06:26 AM

bump

Pagekeeper · 03-19-2009, 08:19 PM

STEP 5: The word God, for me, simply means truth, reality, and what is. It's the truth of the truth. What is the truth of the truth? For me, it is my real, actual, and brutally truthful motives in any situation. When people talk about "God's will" in meetings, I have no trouble understanding what they mean. For me it means what are my true motives? Are they selfish, dishonest, or self-seeking? To tell the truth of the truth: most of the time they are. I'd say about 90% of the time my true motives are selfish, dishonest, or self-seeking. But that's progress compared to 99.9% of the time, which was where I was at before getting sober.

STEP 7: Awareness allows me to see reality. I pray for the awareness to see when my defects are cropping up and distorting the truth. If I am able to see reality, than I am automatically aware of what I am doing each and every second. What I have found, for myself, is that my defects crop up when I want to escape from reality. What is a lie but an escape from reality and the truth? What is gossip but an escape from reality and the truth about myself? Gossip is a dishonest way of boosting my self-esteem. What is lust but an escape from reality? Seeking pleasure outside of myself through another because I don't want to face the truth about myself--that I am lonely, in pain, suffering. I can apply this philosophy to any of my behaviors which are selfish, dishonest, or self-seeking. It all comes down to my wanting to avoid what is.

Hope that made some kind of sense. But if it didn't, it helped me to write it.

ananda · 03-20-2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

It all comes down to my wanting to avoid what is.

Yep...

not much to say...just listening at the moment but thanks page :ghug

jimhere · 03-21-2009, 02:35 PM

The surest path to suffering I know of....avoiding or resisting what is.

girlontherocks · 04-23-2009, 09:51 AM

as a God believer who knows a few atheists in the program... this is so interesting!!

01-02-2009, 07:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 10,122	Steps 5 & 7 Humm.....am relooking at some stuff...just realized that steps 5 and 7 are a little problematic. Step 5 involves "admiting to GOD"...so...I just have to sort of fuzz over tht as I cant exactly "admit" to a spiritual path...it's just not that personal...would be like admitting to a chair or a doorknob..makes no since. Again on step 7....I don't ask GOD to remove my caractor defects...I recognize that the spiritual path will remove my charactor defects ...well sometimes, some of them..but has the power to do so....but I can't truley say I ask it to. Just having to re-think some things right now....perhaps i'm just getting into word picking here...cause I do "get" the concept...I do believe in the "process" Guess I just wish I had something concrete to lay my hands on at the moment. So that is where I am at on the 12 steps of godless AA __________________

01-03-2009, 06:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
doorknob Knucklehead Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Davenport, WA Posts: 4,014	Would it be wrong to do the Steps just so I could say that I have? __________________ Get in where you fit in. - Too $hort

01-03-2009, 08:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
desertdonna Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Glitzville Posts: 335	You can do anything you want, Paul. Just remember the "rigorous honesty" part. Hi Ananda, You know that I haven't worked the steps. But if it were me: 5) Admit means to declare, be aware of. It's a conscious acknowledgment of behaviors or thoughts that don't benefit me or others. Maybe declare it to yourself, since "god" is “omnipotent,” you by default are an extension of that. 7) I can only extract from this "setting an intention." I don't care for the word "remove." I resonate more with the word "dissolve." As negative (fear-based) thoughts and behaviors diminish, or might seem to be dissolving, the kinder, gentler and more aware I become. However this comes about, I am grateful. So I would be setting an intention with humility and openness. If "god" is there and listening, "he/she/it/universe/pink unicorn, etc." would certainly know what I mean. I don't know if this is helpful or drivel, but I think that the importance relies on your action of doing the steps and deriving some kind of meaning from them for you. "Character defects." Now there are two loaded words. My favorite from the BB: "going to health farms..." Thanks for letting me ruminate a bit. Good luck with your steps, Ananda. Hugs, Donna __________________ Peace doesn't require two people; it requires only one. It has to be you. The problem begins and ends there. Byron Katie

01-03-2009, 10:10 AM	#6 (permalink)
allport Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: north yorkshire, england Posts: 1,831	Loved the bit in House when he was in rehab and his power greater than himself was Andre the Giant. Silly but funny. __________________ 'Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too' Douglas Adams

01-04-2009, 10:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
desertdonna Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Glitzville Posts: 335	Hey, I love Andre! He was the gentle giant. My son LOVES wrestling; he and I watched his story on the Discovery Channel. It works for me. RIP, Andre. __________________ Peace doesn't require two people; it requires only one. It has to be you. The problem begins and ends there. Byron Katie

01-03-2009, 06:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
DharmaQueen Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 15	Yeah, it's kind of tricky for those of us who don't worship a God. I have tried several ways to go about this. One is substitute Reality or Greater Truth for God. It means that you are turning to the greater truth of life that isn't apparent when in the throes of addiction. When you are consciously connecting to the bigger picture of what is real, you will change, or be rid of character defects, because you begin to change from a self-centered world that is all about me to seeing the interconnectedness of it all. So asking God to remove defects is like having realizations of the way the totality of life is beyond the world in my head, and see the ego for what it is, and when I do the defects will fall away. This is rambling, but hope it gives you some things to think about and maybe discuss. Best to you.

01-03-2009, 08:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
espresso Guest Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,151	AA can be a power greater than yourself

03-19-2009, 06:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 10,122	bump __________________

03-19-2009, 08:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pagekeeper Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 177	STEP 5: The word God, for me, simply means truth, reality, and what is. It's the truth of the truth. What is the truth of the truth? For me, it is my real, actual, and brutally truthful motives in any situation. When people talk about "God's will" in meetings, I have no trouble understanding what they mean. For me it means what are my true motives? Are they selfish, dishonest, or self-seeking? To tell the truth of the truth: most of the time they are. I'd say about 90% of the time my true motives are selfish, dishonest, or self-seeking. But that's progress compared to 99.9% of the time, which was where I was at before getting sober. STEP 7: Awareness allows me to see reality. I pray for the awareness to see when my defects are cropping up and distorting the truth. If I am able to see reality, than I am automatically aware of what I am doing each and every second. What I have found, for myself, is that my defects crop up when I want to escape from reality. What is a lie but an escape from reality and the truth? What is gossip but an escape from reality and the truth about myself? Gossip is a dishonest way of boosting my self-esteem. What is lust but an escape from reality? Seeking pleasure outside of myself through another because I don't want to face the truth about myself--that I am lonely, in pain, suffering. I can apply this philosophy to any of my behaviors which are selfish, dishonest, or self-seeking. It all comes down to my wanting to avoid what is. Hope that made some kind of sense. But if it didn't, it helped me to write it.

03-21-2009, 02:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
jimhere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 2,317	The surest path to suffering I know of....avoiding or resisting what is.

04-23-2009, 09:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
girlontherocks A day has a hundred pockets. Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Going home Posts: 57	as a God believer who knows a few atheists in the program... this is so interesting!!

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