First Question

[bugsworth]

I hope so too sug. Kinda like being between a rock and a hard place.

Should I stay or should I go? That is the million dollar question. lol

I like the fellowship...the f2f...a valuable resource indeed.

Like Noelle and many others, I'm sure I will eventually move on. Only 5% remain after a year...no doubt the other 95% are not all drinking....proof of that is evident here at SR.

Dave mentioned finding an alternative where your heart and head is not telling you something is wrong would be ideal. Noelle has provided food for thought as many others have in the past and undoubtable will in the future.

Day by day....one foot in front of the other...striving to always do the next right thing keeps me sober and free today. I got my start in aa, for that I am grateful.

[LosingmyMisery]

I chose AA because of its availability. Also, I am not a workbook sort of gal. I knew I needed someone to get on me, to make me do the work, or I would not. That would be counter productive to what I was trying to achieve. To each his own, right? That does not make other programs lesser than, just not for me.

Bug, I have to command you for your perseverance and dedication to sobriety. So many give up if the program does not suit them, or fit their needs. Not you, you keep striving to make it work. Sure, I can see there are aspects of the program you take issue with. I can relate. I, like you, worked it out. Perhaps you will move on. Until then here is to sobriety!

[bugsworth]

Thanks LMM, You are right I am dedicated to my sobriety as so many people on SR are. If I have learned anything here at SR is that anybody who really wants sobriety can achieve it. The message each one of us gives to another is the message of hope. My attempts to ensuring a lasting sobriety is paramount. I do not believe I have another drink in me, not one that will not net disasterous results. I need to do for me what I had not done before...look inside....like Dorothy I believe I had the power the whole time...lol...now where did I put my red shoes?

[LosingmyMisery]

Very true. We have the prower, we just needed to get to the point where we realize it.

I didn't stay sober the first go around in AA, or the second for that matter. I think when I was ready, I did what I had to do. The message of hope is one I like to live by also. If I can do it, anyone can.

[bugsworth]

We all know the saying...only when the student is ready.

I am fortunate to have remained sober from my first meeting, I had no hesitation nor did I have any reservations about the fact that I was going to die if I continued.

I hit my bottom perhaps, although in my mind I saw where the elevator could take me....

Thankfully I got off on the ground floor...now I use the stairs...lol

[LosingmyMisery]

...in your ruby red slippers, no doubt.

After my second relapse, it scared the h*ll out of me. It was at that point I knew I was done. Until then, I pushed it and pushed it. I always got away with it, until I didn't. Reality got into the way and spoiled my delusion. It was either do the work to survive, or die. Yep, stairs are good.

[warrens]

Good stuff, ladies!

warren

[Alera]

Originally Posted by bugsworth

I didn't post the historical reference for any other purpose than to clarify my belief that God does not perform miracles on demand. If that were the case our history books would be quite different.

Italics mine.

I share the same belief. That is why they are called "Miracles" when they do happen. They are rare. Prayer, for me, is communication with God. It lets me know what he thinks is right so I can live my life to the fullest. This is one reason I am a fan of the Liturgy of the Hours, which is a combination of biblical readings and the Psalms. Great way for me to open up my mind to God in prayer without the help me, help my friends type of prayer pattern I can fall into.

I have family that died in the Holocaust, and family that survived. When my grandfather was taken away to the camps and the Nazi's left all his war medals at home, my grandmother did not hit her knees, she got up and went to the camp. Yeap, she did this. She showed them the WWI medals and the Nazi's were scared and let him go. Then my famiily fled the country. And then they prayed. To me, that is the approach I need to take in my recovery. I can pray all day long, but if I don't take action what use is it? I can't rely on God without relying on myself. Just as my grandmother did many years ago.

[paulmh]

Hmm, religion....

I liken my relationship with the 12 step programme to a boot camp.

I couldn't get fit on my own. So I hand myself over to a boot camp. I can continue to try and get fit on my own while I'm at the boot camp but then I would be at odds with my environment (again!), and I wouldn't be getting fit, since I've tried repeatedly my way and failed. I can find all the parts of the boot camp programme that I disagree with and I can try and get them to change those parts that I don't like or don't believe in. Or I can try and keep in mind that my purpose there is not to change the boot camp regime, but to get fit. There may be lots of the philsophy behind the boot camp that I find completely at odds with my own personal philosophy. I might think that some of the things that they ask me to do are dangerous, or outmoded, or barbaric, or backwards. But I've tried my way for so long, with so little success, that if I genuinely want to get fit I need to try things differently. I need to be able to put my reservations to one side. I look at the other people who've got fit - I'm not going to hand myself over to any damned fool after all - and I think - ok, I can see they've done it and they tell me they came from the same place as me. So regardless of what I might think, I'll try it their way.

I don't go to AA to find out what G*d intends for me or for the planet. I go to get sober - and to stay sober. I suppose I do bristle when I hear members say that the ultimate purpose of AA, as stated in AA, is to lead the alcoholic to G*d. I can see that that's true in some parts of the material, and I don't participate in 12 step recovery as if that isn't true. But I very much prefer the use of Higher Power, because that tells the part of the story which I believe is at the heart of this - the absolute, non-negotiable necessity for each alcoholic to break the cycle of being their own higher power. That is the heart of the first step for me, that is the crux of the problem of alcoholism and in squarely facing it - through handing over the delusion of complete control of our own lives, we can break the cycle of mindless self-destruction. We can begin to grow once more.

AA is my boot camp and one aspect of my "Higher Power". That being the case - and having chosen AA as an HP, though, thanks to drink, not freely! - who am I to define the terms of that Higher Power? It's like some of the stuff above - defining the sort of G*d people believe in. lol! I don't even believe in a personal G*d but if I did - sorry Bugs and Alera - I wouldn't be defining what it is and what it isn't! Then it's not G*d and it's not a Higher Power, is it?

So I find no need to rewrite the 12 steps, even though some of it doesn't square with me. I'll have a look on my old computer, there's another set there which come from agnostic AA I think which are good too. But recovery for me is not about changing the world. It's about accepting the world, and changing myself.

IMO

[sugErspun]

Well said Paul.

[bugsworth]

Alera, amazing when I think of our struggle, how insignificant it seems when one hears stories like your Grandparents. The human resolve is incredible. Thanks

paulmh, I love the analogy...certainly gives me something to think about. I do agree about changing myself, not the world....this is really what fuels my desire to find a healthy compromise...There are parts of me...core beliefs that I won't deviate from but I am always open to any other views. Thank you

[ROFL]

Originally Posted by warrens

This is indeed a strange conversation.

My thoughts exactly.

[paulmh]

Stick around.

It'll get stranger.

Prolly.

[Dee74]

definitely.

D

[ROFL]

No doubt! But that's OK!

[bugsworth]

Thank You to all those who answered this thread. I appreciate it.

No worries on it getting any more bizzare...I believe that most of my questions have been answered.

Peace

[paulmh]

Peace to you too Bugs.

And to all our friends on this journey.When we think about where we were, and where we are now, and what is possible for us - wow. Recovery is wonderful.