Welcome to our new forum - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

**Alera** · 03-20-2008, 09:39 AM

Welcome to the new forum. This is for those who are secular and are recovering though the 12 Steps.

You can be atheist, or someone like me who simply prefers to keep religion and recovery separate.

Again, welcome.

bugsworth · 03-20-2008, 12:54 PM

Wow...That's me!! I know there are people who manage to do it...I mean aa without religion...Lately it is getting much harder for me to relate in the rooms, I guess it stems from understanding how the majority views my sobriety. Even with solid sobriety I become an outsider within the fellowship. At times it can be difficult to not respond to the raised eyebrows. Certainly most of the questioning I receive is out of concern but it does make me someone who "works her own program." I have cut my meetings down to just my homegroup, but my commitment of greeter is up and I have considered stopping all together. I know at one time here at SR there were others like me....like you....reading over many of the older posts made me feel far less alone with my "uniqueness"...I thank you

WanChai73 · 03-20-2008, 08:46 PM

Thank you, what a great idea. My sponsor and I are on the same page. I will admit in meetings to being agnostic (the other word is verboten in polite society, as anyone reading this will know!). People feel the need to shake their head. And respond. You know, it's really on them when they feel they need to judge me. I live in a very Christian community so I know people out there are praying for me.

I've noticed in AA literature (Big Book, Came to Believe), and in meetings, people will say they started as an agnostic but as time passed, they became much more spiritual and saw there was so much more. Not believing in god is seen as a weakness, as a lack of depth, as if you only need to stick around, and if you have enough moral fiber, you will Come to Believe. OK, I just had to get that resentment off my chest!

Anyway, I think there are more of us out there than you would think.

**best** · 03-20-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanChai73

and if you have enough moral fiber, you will Come to Believe.

hmmm?

I found it was my lack of moral fiber that had me starting to believe.
When I was filled with enough morals that I did most things right, I felt everything was ok.

As long as people gather enough tools and get sober, AA is working for them and that is AA's job.

Wanna know about God... you can come with me to church on Sundays.

WanChai73 · 03-20-2008, 10:00 PM

'Hmmm...?'

Thanks for the invitation to come to church, though!

paulmh · 03-21-2008, 02:38 AM

Many thanks for this forum. It'll be nice when we furnish it. Me personally I'm going to have a look under the stairs in "Secular" and see if there's anything they don't want over there which might do us a turn here. Goodwill. Now there's a thing.

Arura · 03-21-2008, 03:08 AM

Thanks for the NEW forum ....

As im Non religious BUT work the steps ..
..I hope i can find some Help on here with some of the work i need to do ...

I belive in a HP....but for me its not god in any form ...!!!
and i dont wanna get slammed for Being a Non beliver ...!!!!!!

Thanks ((Paul)) go diggin my friend ....

I look forward to watchin this Grow ....xXx....!

bugsworth · 03-21-2008, 04:45 AM

I wanted to ask...the 12 steps as written in the bb really can't be followed if religion is not involved...what steps then do you follow, if any?

In my search I came across these, provided in an older post by Don S.

Thank You Don...

Humanist Steps

1. We accept the fact that all our efforts to stop drinking have failed.

2. We believe that we must turn elsewhere for help.

3. We turn to our fellow men and women, particularly those who have struggled with the same problem.

4. We have made a list of the situations in which we are most likely to drink.

5. We ask our friends to help us avoid those situations.

6. We are ready to accept the help they give us.

7. We honestly hope they will help.

8. We have made a list of the persons we have harmed and to whom we hope to make amends.

9. We shall do all we can to make amends, in any way that will not cause further harm.

10. We will continue to make such lists and revise them as needed.

11. We appreciate what our friends have done and are doing to help us.

12. We, in turn, are ready to help others who may come to us in the same way.

From the SOS web site:
12Steps

Opinions?

Arura · 03-21-2008, 04:52 AM

I work the 12 steps of NA ....and its a "God of MY understanding"
....that i can work with ..

NA helped save my life and does to this day ...!

I pick up as MANY tools as i can from others to help me Grow and Learn ....

paulmh · 03-22-2008, 03:12 AM

That's a thread on its own Bugs - and one which is right at the heart of this forum....

why don't you start our first "offical" thread on it?

Hey Arura - love you!

sugErspun · 03-22-2008, 04:32 AM

Interesting thread. I have enjoyed many of the posts.

I am a member of AA (in good standing), I am not a member of any other religious groups.

"We Agnostics" - doesn't say "To the Agnostic, or For Agnostics" - it's we, all of us are agnostic. I use the word god as a reference to something that I hope to never fully understand - I cannot put a finger on it. But I do think there is something that is more than me, just too many coincidences in life and if I pay attention to them they become more frequent.

A higher power could be something as Right vs Wrong - I think everyone has an internal idea of what is right and what is wrong.

I choose to go with that which feels right. The word God is pretty loaded and means so much to so many different people - for me, it describes that which I cannot and will not understand...the workings of the universe.

Great thread. I hope I am welcome though I am a "book thumping' AA. I need to know my brothers and sisters on this path.,,

Thanks for reading

~Adam

FightingIrish · 03-22-2008, 06:31 AM

In a very practical way, relying on a power greater than myself means not allowing my peace or serenity to depend on my version of How Things SHould Turn Out. To be open to surprise, to the fact that I can't predict what will happen or how people will behave based on what I know. To look for answers where I don't think there are any. To listen to someone (even thumpers) who I think are going to annoy me.

See, I'm an alcoholic, and so I believe at core that I have magical powers and can predict the future. Coming to believe for me means letting go of these illusions and bad habits.

LosingmyMisery · 03-22-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

See, I'm an alcoholic, and so I believe at core that I have magical powers and can predict the future. Coming to believe for me means letting go of these illusions and bad habits.

Haha...and here I thought I was the only one with these magical powers. Now I see I was not alone.

ananda · 03-24-2008, 06:10 AM

I am in AA, work the steps, and have a sponsor. However, I do not believe in "God" my "higher power" is a variety of things. Sometimes the law of cause and effects, sometimes the enlightened nature in all of us. My AA freinds occasionally struggle with my non-belief, but when I struggled with my 3rd step they all reminded me to get back to my own beliefs and not let the god thing screw me up.

Lot's of people in AA find me frightening, or are waiting for me to drink and prove them right. I just try not to focus on them and share my program so someone who comes in new has other options.

I agree that the big book and 12&12 are full of talk that is clearly trying to "trick" people into god, but like anything else I have to take these writings within their historical context.

I am a buddhist, so I incorporate that into the steps and suggestions. I don't pray as such, but I do say repetitive things. My sponsor about had a cow when I told her that just in case there was a god, I was saying daily "may god find and follow his spiritual path"!!!!

She doesn't get it, but she accepts who I am and we work well together.

For me AA is finding out what you do believe and living by that.

Glad to find this thread. I haven't posted much, so let me know if I screw up about where to post approprietely. This sounds like the right place.

nolonger · 03-24-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ananda

My sponsor about had a cow when I told her that just in case there was a god, I was saying daily "may god find and follow his spiritual path"!!!!

LOL!

LindaKay · 04-02-2008, 11:10 AM

This is my first post on this board and I am so glad to have found this particular forum.

03-20-2008, 09:39 AM	#1 (permalink)
Alera SR's SMART Goth Mod Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,828	Welcome to our new forum Welcome to the new forum. This is for those who are secular and are recovering though the 12 Steps. You can be atheist, or someone like me who simply prefers to keep religion and recovery separate. Again, welcome.
	__________________ Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 Alera The addiction will protect itself ... AT ALL COSTS.

03-20-2008, 12:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
bugsworth Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 960	Wow...That's me!! I know there are people who manage to do it...I mean aa without religion...Lately it is getting much harder for me to relate in the rooms, I guess it stems from understanding how the majority views my sobriety. Even with solid sobriety I become an outsider within the fellowship. At times it can be difficult to not respond to the raised eyebrows. Certainly most of the questioning I receive is out of concern but it does make me someone who "works her own program." I have cut my meetings down to just my homegroup, but my commitment of greeter is up and I have considered stopping all together. I know at one time here at SR there were others like me....like you....reading over many of the older posts made me feel far less alone with my "uniqueness"...I thank you
bugsworth Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 960

03-21-2008, 02:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
paulmh Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK Posts: 992	Many thanks for this forum. It'll be nice when we furnish it. Me personally I'm going to have a look under the stairs in "Secular" and see if there's anything they don't want over there which might do us a turn here. Goodwill. Now there's a thing.
	__________________ It all works. It IS simple

03-21-2008, 03:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
Arura Trying to do the right thing. Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 4,353	Thanks for the NEW forum .... As im Non religious BUT work the steps .. ..I hope i can find some Help on here with some of the work i need to do ... I belive in a HP....but for me its not god in any form ...!!! and i dont wanna get slammed for Being a Non beliver ...!!!!!! Thanks ((Paul)) go diggin my friend .... I look forward to watchin this Grow ....xXx....!
	__________________ Weve come along way and were Changing day by day We DO Recover. We can Recover...!

03-21-2008, 04:45 AM	#8 (permalink)
bugsworth Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 960	I wanted to ask...the 12 steps as written in the bb really can't be followed if religion is not involved...what steps then do you follow, if any? In my search I came across these, provided in an older post by Don S. Thank You Don... Humanist Steps 1. We accept the fact that all our efforts to stop drinking have failed. 2. We believe that we must turn elsewhere for help. 3. We turn to our fellow men and women, particularly those who have struggled with the same problem. 4. We have made a list of the situations in which we are most likely to drink. 5. We ask our friends to help us avoid those situations. 6. We are ready to accept the help they give us. 7. We honestly hope they will help. 8. We have made a list of the persons we have harmed and to whom we hope to make amends. 9. We shall do all we can to make amends, in any way that will not cause further harm. 10. We will continue to make such lists and revise them as needed. 11. We appreciate what our friends have done and are doing to help us. 12. We, in turn, are ready to help others who may come to us in the same way. From the SOS web site: 12Steps Opinions?
bugsworth Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 960

03-20-2008, 08:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
WanChai73 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 29	Thank you, what a great idea. My sponsor and I are on the same page. I will admit in meetings to being agnostic (the other word is verboten in polite society, as anyone reading this will know!). People feel the need to shake their head. And respond. You know, it's really on them when they feel they need to judge me. I live in a very Christian community so I know people out there are praying for me. I've noticed in AA literature (Big Book, Came to Believe), and in meetings, people will say they started as an agnostic but as time passed, they became much more spiritual and saw there was so much more. Not believing in god is seen as a weakness, as a lack of depth, as if you only need to stick around, and if you have enough moral fiber, you will Come to Believe. OK, I just had to get that resentment off my chest! Anyway, I think there are more of us out there than you would think.

03-20-2008, 10:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
WanChai73 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 29	'Hmmm...?' Thanks for the invitation to come to church, though!

03-21-2008, 04:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
Arura Trying to do the right thing. Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 4,353	I work the 12 steps of NA ....and its a "God of MY understanding" ....that i can work with .. NA helped save my life and does to this day ...! I pick up as MANY tools as i can from others to help me Grow and Learn ....
	__________________ Weve come along way and were Changing day by day We DO Recover. We can Recover...!

03-22-2008, 03:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
paulmh Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK Posts: 992	That's a thread on its own Bugs - and one which is right at the heart of this forum.... why don't you start our first "offical" thread on it? Hey Arura - love you!
	__________________ It all works. It IS simple

03-22-2008, 04:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
sugErspun Thumper Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles Ca Posts: 1,091	Interesting thread. I have enjoyed many of the posts. I am a member of AA (in good standing), I am not a member of any other religious groups. "We Agnostics" - doesn't say "To the Agnostic, or For Agnostics" - it's we, all of us are agnostic. I use the word god as a reference to something that I hope to never fully understand - I cannot put a finger on it. But I do think there is something that is more than me, just too many coincidences in life and if I pay attention to them they become more frequent. A higher power could be something as Right vs Wrong - I think everyone has an internal idea of what is right and what is wrong. I choose to go with that which feels right. The word God is pretty loaded and means so much to so many different people - for me, it describes that which I cannot and will not understand...the workings of the universe. Great thread. I hope I am welcome though I am a "book thumping' AA. I need to know my brothers and sisters on this path.,, Thanks for reading ~Adam
	__________________ Although my eyes were open, they might have just as well've been closed....

03-22-2008, 06:31 AM	#12 (permalink)
FightingIrish Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: new york, ny Posts: 239	In a very practical way, relying on a power greater than myself means not allowing my peace or serenity to depend on my version of How Things SHould Turn Out. To be open to surprise, to the fact that I can't predict what will happen or how people will behave based on what I know. To look for answers where I don't think there are any. To listen to someone (even thumpers) who I think are going to annoy me. See, I'm an alcoholic, and so I believe at core that I have magical powers and can predict the future. Coming to believe for me means letting go of these illusions and bad habits.

03-24-2008, 06:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Somewhere Left of Left Posts: 3,762	I am in AA, work the steps, and have a sponsor. However, I do not believe in "God" my "higher power" is a variety of things. Sometimes the law of cause and effects, sometimes the enlightened nature in all of us. My AA freinds occasionally struggle with my non-belief, but when I struggled with my 3rd step they all reminded me to get back to my own beliefs and not let the god thing screw me up. Lot's of people in AA find me frightening, or are waiting for me to drink and prove them right. I just try not to focus on them and share my program so someone who comes in new has other options. I agree that the big book and 12&12 are full of talk that is clearly trying to "trick" people into god, but like anything else I have to take these writings within their historical context. I am a buddhist, so I incorporate that into the steps and suggestions. I don't pray as such, but I do say repetitive things. My sponsor about had a cow when I told her that just in case there was a god, I was saying daily "may god find and follow his spiritual path"!!!! She doesn't get it, but she accepts who I am and we work well together. For me AA is finding out what you do believe and living by that. Glad to find this thread. I haven't posted much, so let me know if I screw up about where to post approprietely. This sounds like the right place.

04-02-2008, 11:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
LindaKay Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 3	This is my first post on this board and I am so glad to have found this particular forum.