making love

[Evanna]

Ok, then Splendra.

Iin the quote above you refer to 'making love' not to 'sex' per se. Elsewhere in this thread you have indicated that you hold strong beliefs about people engaging in the sexual act without love. I believe that at one point you referred to such people as behaving like animals. Personally i am very sceptical of the whole notion of 'making love' but that is another debate entirely. Interestingly, the taoist article that you posted talks primarily of sex.

Your interpretations of sex seem to be intrinsically linked with pain, blame and morality calls. Joyousness is not really something that has shined out of your posts regarding sex. Or if it has then that joyousness is confined to situations in which it is defined as okay to have sex by your standards. By all means apply your standards to yourself if that is what works for you but i would suggest some caution in applying them to the rest of the world.

Interestingly you were very keen for people to read the link that you posted. I took the time to do this and to formulate a somewhat lengthy reply which you have not really addressed.

[splendra]

This thread is a lot like my life...speak my mind.... get attacked... d@mm I have a lot of bounce....it must come from making love....

[splendra]

For me sex has to be linked to love in someway. I have had enough loveless sex to know that it does nothing for me cause I did not enjoy it. I guess I just do not have in me whatever it takes to enjoy loveless sex. I do not feel like I am missing anything by not having loveless sex either.

I have to ask you to not use my screen name to try and shame me please. People who love me do not call me by my given name at all. I came up with my screen name to have a name that has no shame attached to it...

I feel like I have over come many hurdles and I won't let anyone even try to inflict shame on me. I do have a past that has much abuse and yes it took alot for me to over come it and to have a healthy life. I would say the Tao helped me to bring things into balance. The Tao is about balance and nature.

If you believe your sexual behavior is healthy and does no harm than it must be true.

[equus]

I don't think holding a different viewpoint is the same as an attack, I'm not really sure why you feel attacked.

As far as I'm concerned this thread has been about whether or not individuals should be supported in deciding for themselves what sexual relationships are good for them.

It's also touched on the need for integrity and whether or not it's the lack of integrity that creates painful sexual experiences.

We have discussed perceptions of truth as they seem to be something you've relied on to support your points - I can't see how any of these issues amount to an attack on you.

If you're refering to my slightly clumsy response that failed to differentiate between philosophies and those holding them - well I apologised immediately and publicly, that response wouldn't have left me feeling attacked.

I think the points here have been answered politely - but sometimes yes, it has been in polite disagreement.

It might be worth having a glance at some rules of debate - they are readily available on the net and although there are some differences between them certain things are universal. One rule I believe is vital to any dignified debate is to keep arguments to the issue rather than the personality of the speaker.

If I keep my responses purely to what is written by someone else, if I do my best not to assume (although I may ask a question), if I provide reasoning for what I'm saying then surely no-one should be offended and any reader can decide for themselves who has held their point fairly without the need for abuse or personal attacks.

I Have argued against anything other than individuals rights to decide for themselves what is healthy for them. I have argued that where sex is concerned both parties should be equally consenting in all respects, without abuse of power or coercion. I have alos argued that there exist individual differences between people and that these differences should be celebrated - that there is no need for us all to behave in the same way to be healthy.

I feel that your use of diseases such as AIDS to support your point is both irrelevent and invalid in the way it was used and my reply explained why I felt that.

We all come to discussion from our individual perspective, perhaps Ihave cared to answer frequently here because my best friend is gay - therefore I have seen results of people attempting to impose sexual morality or beliefs on others, and of the mis-use of concepts like 'THE truth of what's natural/right/wrong' etc.

[Evanna]

lmao, i was using your name to address you. It was never intended as an attempt to shame you. I was of the idea that you enjoyed debating these issues. Indeed i believe you said as much to me at one point. From my perspective i was simply debating not attacking.

[Evanna]

oops, Equus beat me to it and with far more eloquence.

[Evanna]

Ok then Mrs Mop.

I have been giving this a little thought since this afternoon. The conclusion i have come to is that i really enjoy debating. I can debate all day, with just about anyone, about just about anything. Generally i simply view debates as intellectual exercise and rarely do i take anything personally in the debate stakes. I am aware though that there are times when i am simply debating and someone else can be experiencing the issues at hand on a more personal level. I do not wish for anyone else to be feeling distressed when all i am doing is flexing intellectual muscle.

On reflection i suspect i ought to confine my debating tendencies to other forums where there is not perhaps so much vulnerability floating around.

[splendra]

I do enjoy a good debate I do learn more from an opposing veiw than from agreement. If you use my name followed by a sarcastic remark it does sting a little so if you use sarcasum please just call me "you" it would feel a little less biting. But, bite if you have to cause I have a pretty tough hide. I guess I am sensetive about my name even my screen name because my name has gone thru some stuff that I hope none of yours will ever go thru. Right now I am suing someone very close to me for using my name to commit a crime it has caused me a great deal of trouble especially in my work. I did not want to have to sue but, it is the only way I can get this resolved and it is very very painful for me.

I am not trying to come off as moralistic although I guess to some it would seem so. According to what I have studied sex can be phyiscally depleting to the heart zone. Although sexualy transmitted disease does go deeper than simply loveless sex I beleive there is some connection. Otherwise there would not be people who are educated and knowing that they have whatever disease having unprotected sex to me that just seems terrible.

I do not live in Africa but, I do believe there is a political element behind many famines and disease there. I also believe there could be a political element behind the disease in the USA and possibly the rest of the world. I do contribute to programs aimed at or so they say helping the poor and sick in Africa. I hope it is what my money goes for. I won't be speciffic about what I do locally but, I do volunteer work with PWA.

Evanna you seem to have a pretty clear understanding of the Tao. It is very simple and for me it blends very well with my Christian belief as well which is not very popular amoung my Chistian associates and friends some Christians Iknow will avoid me like the plague for fear that my Asian demon belief could possibly taint them. Yet they will call me if their modern science medicine is not working for them and ask me what would the Chinese do for someone in their condition alot of peole will cross the line of their belief system and ask me to pray for them things are dire enough too.

I do work in the health care feild. I am a medical intuitive which is a fairly new feild as far asmodern medicine goes but, actually it is an acient art. I particpate in research work with alternative therapies on handicapped children also. It's all very structred and controled. I am a very fortunate person and I consider that even the abuse of my childhood is of value.

I do things that most people wouldn't even consider doing I take risks everyday but most of the risk involves other peoples belief systems. The things I am saying about sexual behavior many seem like moral judgements but, it is really about phyisology. I feel like if this disussion helps even one person rethink their behavior and make changes that are in favor of their health my job is done. As ya'll can see their is a lot of opposition to my so called beliefs and opinions. I face this every single day in my work.

What really blows my mind is when people agree with me and then I can say did you say you are a Doctor? Christian? Atheist? and one of my coleges comes and puts their hand on my shoulder and says it alright you did good... I do not need to blow my own horn or even want to. I want some more opposition!!!!

[splendra]

Mrs. Mop? what is that supposed to mean?

[Evanna]

lol, you beat me to it. I was just going to ask whether you might be known from here on out as Mrs Mop to me? That way i avoid making mistakes with your screen name. In the UK it is a term of affection/endearment.

[splendra]

Well I am relieved to find out that it is a term of affection after all I do want you to love me :hug

[freya]

Evanna and Equos: Your last couple of posts have been very insightful. I don't spend a lot of time on-line and, having done my PhD minor fields in Philosphy and Feminist Criticism, I also LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to debate/discusss. My limited experience with on-line "dicsussions" is that many, many people engaging in them are very unfamiliar with (or are in an emotional space from which they unable to follow)
the "rules" of rational debate and tend to lead with their feelings (which, of course, is almost always quickly followed by their taking things personally and their getting their feelings hurt) and/or tend to fairly quickly, as soon as thier position is challenged in any way, revert to some form of the "so-and-so or such-a-text sadi it, I believe it and that settles it "argument."

I've found that, for me, trying to keep a debate going in such situations is no different that trying to talk to an active addict -- it is frustrating, ineffective, stressful for everyone involved, and only succeeds in making me insane (Since insisting on trying to reason with someone who is not in a rational place is clearly insane behavior on my part.)

I heard a comment relevant to this at a meeting last week. The Chair was talking about how her sponsor ecourages her to think of her dry-but-not-always-sober spouse as "under the influence" when he has somehow and for some reason been triggered into a crazy, unmanageable place. Her sponsor says "Sure, he's not under the influence of alcohol or drugs, but he is under the influence of old woundings and/or of issues and feelings that he used to drink to deny and that he hasn't dealt with yet, and you need to detatch and do what you need to do to take care of yourself in this situation the same way as you would if he were drinking and/or drugging. You don't need to go to a crazy place just because he is there."

For me, trying to debate with someone who is "under the influence" of anything that prohibits him/her from following the rules of rational discussion definitely leads to my giving up my own serenity and going to a frustrated, crazy place. (Part of this is because I do love to debate so much I'm always hoping "Hey, if I just say this or that or whatever the "right thing" might be, I could get this debate back onto rational ground and we could all have a really good time with it." But that's just as crazy as when I used to think with my AP, "Hey, if I could just find the right way to put this, she would see how insane and hurtful this addictive behavior is and everything would be better.) And actually, now that I think of it, the few times in the past when I've gotten into these kind of situations in on-line discussions and not been able to "give it up" -- even when it should have been very clear to me that, although my own postings in the discussion remained rational, the whole situation and my continued particiaption in it was crazy -- are probably as close as I've ever personally come to falling into addictive behavior myself. And although there was definitely a certain kind of "rush" to it, it really was not a comfortable or healthy place for me to be.

BTW, I'm not remembering right now which one of you mentioned that there are some on-line sites that provide rules for debate, but could you post a link if you have one (or send it to me in a private message?) I'd really like to have that as a reference for the future. Thanks.

freya

[splendra]

....

[splendra]

Na really I would like the rules on this thread to just one: speak your mind and try to be kind not kurt or sarcastic.


I like the way this thread is going

I of course know that my words are not written in stone. I do not believe I am coming from a place of my wounds in discussion of making love. I am not afraid to look at where I have been or to show to others

I am however attempting to give plenty of fodder so that people reading this thread can see all sides. I am coming from a place of concern for my fellow human being. Don't believe lies especially the ones that can possibly lead to illness.

[Evanna]

Freya,
Thank-you!!

Particularily for the reminder about looking out for my own sanity by making decisions about when to engage and when to to let it go. That was most relevent given that earlier i found myself concerned in case that which was simply intellectual manovering on my part was playing a part in another's distress. Right there was where i entered 'my stuff'. I wanted to 'fix' it, to close my side of the debate gently, to lighten the mood and to take responsibility for someone else's feelings. Effectively at that point i went a little crazy.

You are entirely correct about online discussions too. I often enter debate with great enthusiasm only to find myself feeling like a verbal b1tch at the end of the day. Perhaps it is time for me to find a place where the verbal b1tch in me can be something to be celebrated. For i am certain that it is a gift and a joyous thing. I think i will look into joining a debating society or taking up some kind of political activism.

Equus mentioned the rules for rational debate earlier. I am assuming that Equus was referring to the rules used by university debating societies;
http://www.debating.org/pages/rules.htm

Apologies for the hi-jack Splendra.

[splendra]

I found this article to be a great over view of Sacred Sexuality. It does use male and female sex for example. However I do know that gay people can apply these theories to their love making and I have even seen books on some of my gay friends book shelves that explain these sexual practices in great detail for gay men and women. I do not recall the names of the books but, I know they are out there for gay people. I hope you enjoy reading this article....


HISTORY OF SACRED SEXUALITY
Ancient Practitioners of Sacred Sex
(Excerpt from: Sacred Sexuality--A Manual for Living Bliss by: Michael Mirdad)

An Overview

Although humanity has often struggled with sexuality and similarly related issues, there have always been arts and sciences devoted to honoring the sacred, sexual self. In fact, the universe and its origins are steeped in a fusion (or intercourse) of creative forces in cosmic and human forms. All sacred thought systems contain concepts of male and female aspects of this Creative Force. Additionally, every major religion and philosophy has a sect devoted to mysticism. Each sect of mysticism has a faction devoted to understanding and exploring the deeper concepts behind sacred sexuality and the practical integration of spirituality and sexuality.

The practice of sacred sexuality dates back to an ancient culture known as the Lemurians. Although there are no known written records of their sexual practices, their methods were kept alive through their descendants, such as the people of the Hawaiian Islands. The Lemurians combined creativity, vibrational healing, aromatherapy, and spirituality. They lived in harmony with body and soul and honored the creative and feminine aspects of life. They were also the originators of the healing art known as Reiki, which was preserved by their descendents in Tibet and surrounding regions. All other ancient arts of sacred sexuality are remnants of those founded by this original race.

The oldest arts of sacred sexuality that have been preserved in a relatively complete form are those of Tantra and the Taoist arts of sexology, estimated to be several thousand years old. The western mystics who explored sacred sexuality in the concealed form of alchemy or energetic transmutation came much later. Nevertheless, whatever the name of the sacred art or the time in which it was practiced, the goals have always been the same. The arts of sacred sexuality have always been practiced with the intent of transforming mundane thoughts, feelings, and energy into a higher, spiritualized, personal experience of oneness, or union, with all that exists.

Tantra

Tantra is arguably the oldest known art of sacred sexuality practiced today. The true story of the origins of Tantra is obscure, to say the least. The various versions of its origins include Tantra as being a well-organized system from some factions of Hinduism. Others say it came from Buddhist sects. Still others say it gradually developed from communities within small East Indian villages.

Some people believe that Tantra evolved from the practice of yoga, which, like Tantra, is about liberation and joining. In fact, many of the physically challenging sexual positions of Tantric lovemaking are actually yoga postures used for personal awakening.

Tantra is a Sanskrit word of two parts. The prefix, tan, means “to expand, join or weave.” The latter part, tra, means “tool.” Therefore, the definition of the term Tantra has a two-fold meaning—“a tool to expand, liberate, and bring together.” What is known about Tantra is that the most common form is preserved through such writings as the Kama Sutra (probably written around the time of Christ) and the Ananga Ranga (a collection of erotic works from around 1100 A.D.) The purest form of Tantra was not passed down in writing, but only by way of initiations and personal instruction.

The Kama Sutra was written by a noble man who saw life as consisting of dharma (spiritual substance), artha (financial substance), and kama (sensual substance). Kama is said to be “the enjoyment of appropriate objects by the five senses…assisted by the mind, together with the soul.” Although Tantra might appear to be an art of sexual pleasuring and the Kama Sutra a manual of sexual positions, the real goal of kama is to cultivate love and reverence for the person with whom the Tantric pleasure.

Although most spiritual disciplines insist on evolving into higher states of consciousness by controlling or denying the senses and lower states of consciousness, Tantra teaches that you cannot experience complete personal and spiritual liberation while restricting a part of your being. Tantra is a profound form of active meditation that expands consciousness using the senses to take you beyond the realm of the senses. It teaches that sacred sexuality is a way of deepening intimacy and expanding consciousness, a way to achieve freedom from limitations and to join with the Divine.

Observing a Tantric experience, you might assume you are simply witnessing “great sex.” But if you could see the experience clairvoyantly, you would witness an amazing dance of energy and color, not unlike a fireworks display. Furthermore, if you could see into the hearts and souls of the participants, you would observe a consecrated joining of loving intent.

Valerie Brooks, author of Tantric Awakening, summarizes the stages of the Tantric lovemaking experience as follows:
1. Physical: total concentration on the physical pleasure in the moment.
2. Emotional: immersion in loving thoughts and worship of your partner’s divinity.
3. Spiritual: feeling yourself and your partner as a single unit that is connected to Spirit, or God.

Just as some of the world’s greatest spiritual teachers have said that Heaven cannot be accurately described in words, the essence of Tantra cannot be captured in either oral or written words. To truly understand Tantra, it has to be experienced.

In addition to cosmic, mystical experiences, Tantric masters are also interested in having deeply personal experiences with other people and the world in which they live. When a deep interconnection is established, the formerly perceived space between any two people or objects becomes filled with the light of Spirit. This spiritual presence activates and excites the etheric energy within and between the two, joining them as one. That which was contracted and separate is now free to expand and unite. This is Tantra!

True Tantra is a spiritual path and is practiced with an air of sacredness. Since Tantra is practiced as a spiritual ceremony, as with all forms of spiritual worship, there is an acknowledging and honoring (worshiping) of a Divine Being. However, in Tantra, this deity is reflected and honored in your partner, rather than in an intellectual concept or vague image. Therefore, Tantra is not an abstract form of spiritual practice, but a practical one, wherein the experience with the Divine is brought down to the very realm of the senses. Of course, this is not to say that the tantrika (practitioner of Tanta) cannot choose to practice other forms of spirituality and worship. It’s just that Tantra challenges lovers to see the Divine Presence of God in and through each other.

Tantra has two distinct paths of training, a left-hand path (vama-marga) and a right-hand path (dakshina-marga). The left-hand path practices a more literal form of Tantra that usually involves intercourse. The right-hand path, on the other hand, practices a symbolic form of Tantra that views intercourse as an allegory. The left-hand path of Tantra practices the maithuna ritual known as “The Five Makaras.” During an evening gathering, several practitioners join to partake of the five symbols of pleasure, which are madya (wine), matsya (fish), mamsa (meat), mudra (parched grain), and maithuna (sacred sex).

In Tantric writings, a woman’s sexual and spiritual energies are often referred to as shakti. In Hindu traditions the goddess Shakti represents the female principle or energy. Although the female force, or shakti, exists in both women and men, women are seen as the “guardians” of the shakti energy. According to ancient Tantric writings, the power of the shakti is limitless. Once awakened, this spiritual, energetic, and sexual force can be channeled creatively.

Upon awakening, Shakti rises up the spine to meet Shiva, her male counterpart. Together their merged energies create an alchemical fusion of bliss. Thus in Tantra, the coupling of a man and woman serves to represent this greater, universal creative process, as the intercourse between a couple simulates the creation dance of Shakti and Shiva.

Tantra is not to be confused with other arts of sacred sexuality, including Taoist sexual practices. Tantra (from India) and Taoism (from China) are similar, but are also quite different. Both involve balancing the male and female energies. What Tantra calls the dance of Shakti and Shiva, Taoists call the balancing of yin and yang. Both systems have a goal of total physical and spiritual union. Tantra and Taoism are each an ancient form of sacred sexuality. Also, in both traditions, sexuality is practiced in a spiritual context.
Nevertheless, the differences are very distinct. For example, Tantra uses more ceremony and ritual, while Taoism is more scientific and focuses on the body, its meridians, and energy systems. Tantra is an art, while Taoist sexology is a science. In Tantra there is less emphasis on “controlling orgasms” by “constricting specific muscles.” Instead, in the art of Tantra there is emphasis on relaxing into the orgasmic sensations, rather than tensing in any form. On the other hand, in the Taoist sexual systems, control and muscle constriction are at the very heart of the techniques and principles. Tantrikas may not agree with all Taoist concepts of ejaculation control. Taoists have developed their principles of sexuality into a science that has worked for thousands of years. Taoist masters, who are commonly known to live in vibrant health for well over a hundred years, attribute their semi-immortality to their sexual practices of ejaculation control and in-jaculation.

Because of the differences between Tantric and Taoist sexual practices, most practitioners of any ancient system of sexuality follow only one of these two paths. Few practitioners have learned to reconcile, synthesize, and integrate the two. Nevertheless, the key to successfully practicing sacred sexuality is to use both techniques at precisely the right moment.

Taoist Sexology

Although Taoism (pronounced Dow-ism), as a philosophy or religion in China, developed later than the Hindu religion of India, both traditions embraced some form of sacred sexuality. The Chinese sexual arts were developed by the Yellow Emperor (Huang-Ti) and his “three immortal ladies” long before Taoism, which means that although Hinduism is older than Taoism, the Chinese sexual arts are still as ancient as Tantra.

Like Tantra, Taoism has many facets, sex being only one of eight “spokes to their wheel.” Royalty often consulted the wise and respected Taoist masters on issues related to philosophy, health, life, and sex. Some of these teachings were preserved and are known as “Canons of Wisdom.” The most common set of ancient writings on Taoist lovemaking is called the “pillow books.”

The primary purpose behind Taoist lovemaking is the transformation of sexual energy into healing energy and vitality, resulting in better health and potential immortality. The primary Taoist technique to achieve these healing effects is called the inward orgasm (in-jaculation), whereby the orgasmic energy rises up the spine, stimulating the endocrine glands, energy systems, nervous system, and organs. Taoists teach that an inner orgasm (in-jaculation) stimulates life and vitality, while the outer orgasm (e-jaculation) brings death or loss of health and vitality. An in-jaculation is the most effective tool for transforming a physical orgasm into an energetic orgasm. Of course, there are even higher levels of orgasm as well, including a soul-level, total-being orgasm.

Taoist self-transformation exercises are designed to bring the practitioner to a state of immortality by cultivating what they refer to as the three energies, or “Three Treasures.” The first is ching (sexual and physical energy), the second is qi (etheric and breath energy), and the third is shen (mental and spiritual energy). Only with sufficient ching can the body produce sufficient qi. Then, with sufficient qi, a balance of shen is restored. These three essences must be restored and refined to their optimum level and balance to attain the gifts of the “Three Treasures,” or the “Elixir of Immortality.” Practitioners of Taoist sexuality believe that sexual energy is the most powerful human energy and that the use of sexual rejuvenation and in-jaculation techniques are the most effective and efficient way to revitalize and develop these “Three Treasures.”

Taoists use imaginative, and sometimes humorous, metaphors to illustrate their concepts about sexuality. For example, they regard man as fire and woman as water. Fire, once started, burns fast and can burn out, when, on the other hand, the woman (or water) is just beginning to boil (or get hot). Therefore, the man must control his fire to prolong his climax (and erection). Then he can help the woman reach her natural stages of warming up toward orgasm, thus enhancing the experience for both partners.

Again, Taoists say that the male is like fire and the woman is like water. The man’s fire (penis or lingam) boils the woman’s water (her womb or yoni). If the man is not trained in the art of lovemaking, her water will extinguish his fire. Thus, the soft and yielding (yin) can conquer the hard (yang), just as the proverbial flowing river conquers the hardest of rocks.

Taoists do not merely teach exercises to enhance the pleasure of partnership. They also encourage self-mastery and self-awareness for improved health and vitality. They clearly teach the importance of drawing in the sexual energy and experience, rather than focusing on sexual organs and external stimuli. Any focus on the sexual organs is used only to introduce the practitioner to more advanced concepts. Taoist master Mantak Chia says that the goal of Taoist sexual practices is like that of making chicken broth: If you boil a chicken in water and extract the vital essence into the water, which is more valuable, the chicken or the broth? Clearly, the Taoists believe the valuable energy generated during lovemaking is more vital to one’s well-being than the stimulation to the organs.

In the Taoist tradition, sexual energy is nurtured and valued for its role in the overall well-being of the body, mind, and spirit. It is the water of life, or life-giving essence, for all that exists in the material world. Taoists see sexual energy as the fuel behind the body’s chi (energy, vital essence or life-force). Stimulation of the sexual organs and sex glands enhances this life-force and thereby encourages the secretion of hormones from the other major endocrine glands (adrenal, thymus, thyroid, pituitary, and pineal). Therefore, Taoist sexual exercises assist in the production of potent hormones and stimulate the healthy function of the endocrine glands, the master controls of the body.

Taoists are emphatic about the value of semen retention, or in-jaculation. The ancient Taoist masters referred to a ten-day process that procured the invaluable results of ejaculation retention. In one ancient text they wrote:

“If a man has intercourse once without spilling his seed, his vital essence is strengthened. If he does this twice, his vision and hearing are made clearer. If three times, his physical illnesses will begin to disappear. The fourth time he will begin to feel inner peace. The fifth time his blood will circulate powerfully. The sixth time his genitals will gain new prowess. By the seventh his thighs and buttock (muscles and meridians) will become firm. The eighth time his entire body will radiate good health. The ninth time his life-span will be increased.”
–Canon of Taoist Wisdom

[splendra]

page 2





HISTORY OF SACRED SEXUALITY
Ancient Practitioners of Sacred Sex
(Excerpt from: Sacred Sexuality--A Manual for Living Bliss by: Michael Mirdad)

*Page 2*

Sexuality of the Western Mystics

The art of sacred sexuality (during the Middle Ages) was known as alchemy, meaning “All-Chemistry” or “God’s Chemistry.” This lost science was said to have been the art of transmuting base metals into gold. It’s now understood that the western mystics were actually using metaphor to discuss their art of sacred sexuality. They were describing the transmutation of base, sexual energy into valuable, ecstatic, soul-level orgasms.

The only transformer and alchemist that turns everything into gold is love.
–Anais Nin

Common tools of the alchemist include the pestle and mortar, which are symbols of a lingam (penis) and yoni (vagina). Here, the grinding activity between the two represents sexual union. Other tools of the alchemist are the wand and cistern or knife and bowl. Again these symbolize the creative activity between the male and female principles, or the lingam and yoni. Furthermore, these symbols of sexual union represent the creative mind piercing and activating the receptive void, just as “the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the deep.”

Unfortunately, some practitioners of what is commonly referred to as sex magic or alchemical sex have a different focus. Their goal is ego self-gratification, not joining in oneness. While all practitioners of sex magic may not be ego-centered, many of them are known to maintain a detachment from their lovers and use them as mere tools to ignite their own energetic systems. Lacking true intimacy and spiritual depth, however, their sexual encounters can never be confused with anything sacred–particularly sacred sexuality.

Tales of Sacred Sexuality

The following are myths, legends, and stories of sacred sexuality from numerous cultures throughout history. Each legend possesses valuable insights into the meaning of sacred sexuality.

Actaeon and Diana
When Actaeon, (a respected hunter who symbolizes the physical self) happened upon the great goddess Diana, naked and washing herself, he failed to fall down and worship her. Instead, he chose to make a sexual advance. Because he failed to see and honor her divinity, she turned him into a stag (symbolizing his out-of-control horniness). Afterwards, Actaeon’s own hunting dogs devoured him. This story suggests that when our sexual desires are out of control and we fail to recognize the sacred spirit within that which we desire, our actions will inevitably destroy us.

Cupid and Psyche
The story of Cupid and Psyche offers deep insights into the connection between eroticism and spirituality. Cupid, who is also known as Eros, or Amour, is the god of erotic love, and Psyche represents the beauty of the soul.

When the goddess Venus becomes jealous of Psyche’s beauty, Venus asks Eros to cause Psyche to fall in love with some unworthy man. Instead, Eros takes Psyche away to his own secret place, where he protects and visits her under the cloak of darkness, so she never sees his face. Eros explains to Psyche that although he is a god, he doesn’t want her to fear or revere him, but to love him as an equal. Herein, the story reveals the importance of mutuality and equality in a relationship of love.

Eventually, Psyche is coaxed (by her envious sisters) to break her vow to Eros and to attempt to see her lover in the light. So while he is sleeping, she takes a candle to bed to see his face. But the hot wax drips on his shoulder and awakens him. Sadly, Eros flies away on his white wings after telling Psyche, “Love cannot dwell with suspicion.” This story conveys the invaluable lesson that trust is necessary if lovers are to remain united. In breaking their agreement to honor the mystery, Psyche attempted to know her lover through her eyes and mind, instead of allowing the knowing of her heart to be sufficient. Hence, in her attempt to limit and control Eros, she sacrificed everything.

Later, after Psyche is put through some seemingly impossible initiations by the goddess Venus (tests which Eros secretly helps her pass), the goddess is satisfied and allows Psyche to drink the sacred ambrosia and become immortal. Thus, Psyche is reunited with Eros, and they begin an eternal union.

Eventually, the union of Eros and Psyche (sexuality and spirituality) produces a daughter, whose name is Pleasure, suggesting that true pleasure can be attained only through the proper, healthy union of the loving soul (Psyche) with the passionate body (Eros). Furthermore, for this union to survive, it must be revered as sacred and maintain the elements of spontaneity and mystery.

Dionysus–The God of Abandon
Although the story of Dionysus might seem unfamiliar, elements of his legend are firmly embedded in modern history, religion, and psychology. Dionysus is the personification of divine ecstasy, which, in human hands, can bring either transcendent joy or madness–spiritual liberation or physical addiction. The word ecstasy comes from the root ex stasis, meaning “to stand outside oneself” (which is what happens when we have an experience that is too powerful for the body to contain).

Dionysus is often referred to as the god of abandon, the god of ecstasy or the god of the vine, meaning “wine,” but not “drunkenness,” as often portrayed. In fact, drunkenness was not permitted at ancient Dionysian gatherings, since it was believed that one had to maintain conscious awareness to avoid being possessed by negative spirits while in such a vulnerable and open state.

Greek god Dionysis and consorts Dionysus represents the ecstasy of the senses and the sensuous world and is therefore the antithesis of the intellectual thought processes. Ancient civilizations honored Dionysus by many names and in diverse forms. In fact, the practice of the orgy was originally a ritual honoring the god Dionysus–the god of liberation and abandon. The theatre is said to also have originated as one of the Dionysian rituals.

Since he represented the awakening of the earth, the Christians turned the youthful, androgynous, and beautiful Dionysus into a goat image, depicted with what they perceived as the face of the devil. Yet, paradoxically, many churches still practice Dionysian rituals. In fact, there are numerous parallels between Dionysus and Jesus–making Jesus a living embodiment of Dionysus. Both are sons of Divine Fathers and mortal, virgin mothers. The mothers of both are said to have ascended to Heaven. The father of Dionysus is Zeus (sometimes called Dias-Pitar, meaning “God, the father”), while that of Jesus is referred to as “the Father, God.” Both beings are said to have visited hell, or the underworld, and both Dionysus and Jesus were hailed as “King of Kings.” Additionally, Dionysus and Jesus both die and are reborn, becoming symbols of transformation. Afterwards, Dionysus ascends to Olympus and Jesus, to Heaven, while both sit at the right hand of God. The name Dionysus means “son of God,” while Jesus was called the “son of God.”

Dionysus and Jesus both suffered at the hands of local authorities and were said to have mingled with men and women of questionable character and low repute. Also, both show a disregard for the established modes of worship.

Given all the similarities between Dionysus and Jesus, it becomes clear that both beings personify the living Christ, one as a mythological archetype and the other as a living incarnation. Dionysus is the male archetype of Christ consciousness expressed in sensual form just as Mary Magdalene is for the female.

Paradise Lost
The English poet John Milton reveals incredible insights into the role and higher purpose of sexual encounters. In Paradise Lost, he depicts a conversation between Adam and the Archangel Raphael. Here, Adam shares his perplexing attraction for Eve as follows:
“To love thou blam’st me not, for love thou say’st
Leads up to heav’n, is both the way and guide;
Bear with me then, if lawful what I ask:
Love not the heav’nly spirits, and how their love
Express they, by looks only, or do they mix
Irradiance, virtual or immediate touch?”
To whom the Angel, with a smile that glowed
Celestial rosy red, love’s proper hue,
Answered: “Let it suffice thee that thou know’st
Us happy, and without love no happiness.
Whatever pure thou in the body enjoy’st
(And pure thou wert created) we enjoy
In eminence, and obstacle find none
Of membrane, joint, or limb…”

In this poem, Milton touches upon some of the themes of Genesis I and II. He implies that it is possible for human partnerships to be blessed with love; that the body was created pure; that sexual intercourse is pure and undefiled as long as the soul and body are properly connected to their Divine Source; and that human sexual love is a reflection of a greater Love Divine. Milton also implies that although the angels have a higher vibrational presence, they still enjoy some form of passionate expression. He further indicates that despite the higher form of angelic interaction, the angels themselves do not hold a judgment for the seemingly more limited human expressions through “membranes, joints, or limbs.”

The Return of the Goddess
There is a legend telling of a time when the gods were troubled by the appearance of a giant stone phallus (penis or lingam) that was destroying paradise. This black stone lingam was demolishing forests, homes, lakes, and mountains. The gods sent their armies to stop him but to no avail. In a moment of insight, the helpless gods remembered a great goddess whom they had formerly ignored. They humbly went to her, acknowledged her value, and said they would continue such an acknowledgement if she ended the destruction imposed by the lingam. So the goddess descended from the sky, took hold of the giant stone phallus, and slipped him deep inside of her. This act brought him such incredible pleasure that his aggression was completely dissolved.

Shakti and Shiva
Shakti and Shiva are female and male Tantric deities representing the masculine and feminine aspects of a greater deity. Although these beings are deified, they are both found within all men and women. The whole universe is said to be created from the union of Shakti and Shiva.

In Hindu mythology, Shiva (man) needs Shakti (woman) to give him form, and Shakti (woman) needs Shiva (man) to give her consciousness. He can teach her wonderful things, but she can always humble him by reminding him of his limits. In this sense, the two are necessary to achieve the perfect universal dance of life.

[splendra]

I have found many articles on the net that describe and illustrate in great detail the sexual positions that aid in healing and health. I googled "Sex for Health" and got many articles but because they are for the most part very graffic I could only find this one to be appropiate here.

[splendra]

It has occured to me in reading back thru this thread that people think I am judging others for their behavior....

It seems that most everyone agrees that a monogamous relationship is the best atmosphere for making love but if someone wants to have sex for the sake of sex this is alright too. I think that having sex for the sake of sex can lead to sex addiction because it is not as satisfying as making love.

To me this is because even in loveless sex we still make a connection with the other person and when we back away the connection is still there and becomes like pulling out an electric cord by the cord instead of the plug which we all know can damage the cord as well as the plug and then make future connections short out. Also if the connection went in deep enough when it is severed it can cause sever damage to the energy feild of both people and the energy leaks just like someone who has been stabed and is bleeding to death. If this did not happen I would be completely unconcerned about people having this kind of sex.

It has occured to me that several people read this thread hoping to catch me saying something about gay sex being wrong. I believe that I am definatly not in control of who another person loves. I have seen people suffer from trying to change their gayness. I do not understand what it is to be gay but, I do love several people who are.

Before I ramble to far I want to say what I really think about AIDS. I think it is a sham. I think that the treatments that have been developed cause more death than they prevent. Of the people I know with HIV and AIDS the ones who do not buy into the drug cocktails and eat right and take supplements and herbs to keep their immune system strong live longer and healthier lives. There are many web sites devoted to passing along information for alternative treatment. One i particularly like is called Continuum...

I go to one church that the congregation is about 70% gay mostly I go because of the music and I am baptised in the particular denomonation.

Many of the couples in this church adopt children who are considered hard to place because of their disabilities they all face great opposition because they are gay and want children and they take the ones nobody wants and love them to pieces. Still there are people who think it is wrong for them to be raising these children. The very ones who would turn their backs on them and it really burns me up sometimes.

I personally would not ever seek a woman as a sexual partner but, I would defend anyone elses right to do so...

[reader]

We are after all mammals. Sex is a base need. Weather we choose to allow emotion into our sexual experiences is up to the individual. Sexual attraction is based on finding the best genes to carry on a species. That is why height and weight is often a issue in dating. I think a whole lot of money is spent trying to coverup our human odors and our animal attributes. Just my 2 cents!!! Kerry

[splendra]

reader-

thanks for you reply...

I believe cover up cosmetics are not only giving us a terrible message about our bodies but are causing great harm to our bodies as well. Nothing smells better to me than a healthy clean body. The scent of the body is used not only for actracting a mate but, it is also a diagnostic tool for disease and imbalance in the body. That is why there are dogs who are used to detect cancer also there are dogs who are used for people with epilipsy to let the person know when a seizure is going to happen. Believe me every condition of the body has a scent.
Hey ladies just in case you didn't know one of breast cancer's main CAUSE is the use of chemical filled antiperspirants...it is a shame that nobody seems to be really putting this information out there. Also the soaps and other products made from rancid animal fats are a contributing factor.....

[utopia]

i think there are a lot of products are out there that wed be healthier without, i know i feel better withoout chemicals an mass processed crap.

some foods enhance us though, esp in the area of love making. strawberries and chocolate. instantly i have flashes of past sexual encounters where alcohol and drugs wer used by my sexual partners during the act. i used to get drunk before sex or lovemaking too because i was so self-conscious and uneasy about exposing my full naked self. i couldnt face it because post-abuse issues made me feel the extremity of being judged, and i would fully pretend to a degree, my reactions and the waqy i performed in bed werent natural for me, something just said, THIS IS WRONG PLEASE STOP.ive also been taken advantage of whilst drunk. its called rape when you have sex with someone under the influence. in australia anyway. sometimes i get frustrated so much cos i just want to be free of the crap and have sexual release.

but ive moved on from that now to see that i think love making is better when sober and with someone who is sober. and its not so much long term committment now that is the go for me, but i am into sexual intimacy. for sex to have a level of closeness. a level of respect and mutual trust. and also that its ok if i change my mind again.
peace.

[splendra]

I know for myself my best love making comes from being fully present in the moment without drugs or alcohol. I love to make a fruit plate with chocolate covered strawberries,apples ,oranges,grapes and cheese and lite some inscense and scented candles and put on a movie and do some massaging of one another and make love all night or all Sunday afternoon after church is another favorite time of mine. We have to take the phone off the hook on Sundays cause it seems like my mom always callsand she is the last person I want to talk to at that time. We also enjoy our whirlpool tub which is big enough for both of us to get in.

Onething that is just so wonderful about being with someone that I know loves me is that past issues of abuse have been discussed and I have been able to put them away. I feel very comfortable with my body.

We feel that using asian sexual tecniques has so enhanced our health and has brought about healing on so many levels. The giving and receiving is so much deeper and more pleasurable.

Here is a link for exersise for men to develope their sexual strength http://www.nine3.com/DeerMan.html

I am looking for a link for women to follow so give me some time there is a lot of reading for me to sort through. But if you just key in: "The tao of sex" in google you will find some pretty cool stuff...for both men and women. Actually sex is far more difficult and taxing for men than it is for women. I do know that foreplay with women and men ought to be started with massage to the hands and feet....

[splendra]

I am bumping this to the top because several people have pm'ed wanting to know where the thread is

[Rowan]

Gonna jump in real quick here: my experience/reply may not be terribly profound, but basically I used to absolutely hate myself and figured that whoever wanted to do whatever with me I had no voice, no right to say no. There was never love. At the end of each 'session' I had a paroxysm of shrieking/crying. Alternatively, it used to be a real high for me at the start of an evening; getting bathed, dressed, perfumed, knowing I would be getting 'it'. I started to use men. As my drinking increased, my attitude towards promiscuity became dispassionate. It took a near-tragic experience to wake me up. As I've gotten older, and have stayed sober, I've had no inkling to return to my old ways. I'm involved in a long-term committed relationship with a man I adore. I have no need or desire to leave him for a sexual 'encounter' elsewhere. Our relationship is not based on nor defined by sex. It never has nor will it ever be. There is a connection between us that I haven't experienced before. That connection is palpable when out for a walk together, or making love in our bedroom. Love... is looking into that special someone's eyes and feeling that 'shift' in our gut.
Thanks for letting me share.