making love

[Gooch]

Great thread!

I barely know where to start .. But many years ago in school we had the equivalent of home made year books. Friends from class would pass them around and we would write comments in them . This one fella who I haven't thought about in years, wrote in mine. "A good women is only a woman but a good cigar is a smoke!"

I wonder what the spiritual conection/energy transferral from sex to making love to cigars to our chakras to my remembering Ron's little comment in my "slam book" has to offer me or you. Actually I don't wonder what. I wonder at !

Recently a friend I never had the chanec to meet passed from his earthly coils. After spending half his life sorting through the overwhelming task of coming to terms with his emotions, drives, thoughts, lusts, and fears, he was able to redirect his energies into artistic expression and channeling love and a zest for life through his passion for creating and riding motorcycles. Ironic that a man who had been locked down in a mental institution twice, been imprisoned for bank robbery, blown off his own finger while attempting to build a bomb to blow up the catholic school that he had hated, was by any psychiatrist's standard references( and his own) insane, finally came to terms with his own energies, focused them, shook off his bondage, found love, and began to live in the great freedom of what he referred to as "the great mystery of life".

I'm not sure what this has to do with making love, or sex, but the act of loving without regard to expectation of end result is the only way we are ever going to shake off the physical and material chains, heal all of our old scars, and grow into those light bodies that are waiting to resonate in the great sound and light show.

I worry a little about the scenario of "moving away from those who are described as draining our energy" Thats not the example that has allowed me to shift my paradigm.

If there was ever anyone with a sad story that could cause that effect, I would have killed or poisoned off the whole recovery family in our area when I first walked through the door.

THe greatest lesson I have been taught about intimacy and trust came from a self proclaimed hedonist. The reason I was able to grow beyond my issues of rejection and jealousy was that this person acted in all of their affairs with integrity, homesty, compassion, and sacrifice. I always knew I could count on them being there when they said they would, and that I would be told the truth even when I was first warned that it might be something that would challenge me to stretch beyond the limits of my fears and old hurts.

Although this person and i choose not to be together in a traditional relationship or even a living arrangement and both of us have pursued other relationships, the love we have has not nor will ever diminish.

I've never had to wonder those "what if's?" I have no reason to feel I missed out on anything or have suffered a loss. If anything I feel as though I am richer and have more love to offer. And someplace in the process became conscious that I have always had all the love I need and it's been within myself.

Accepting that great mystery and trying to go with the flow also suggests that I may have had all the sex I will ever need as well.

I'd still like to stick around a while longer and keep reading along rather than trying to skip to the end. Whats the point of reaidng the book if you just have to jump to the end to see if "the butler did it"?

my friend Tony used to say that everything is connected and like the ripples from a stone thrown into a pond, every little electron that gets bumped sets off a chain of events.

Staying focused in the moment can help us be more mindful of the electrons we are bumping into. Grace was never one of my strong suits. Some times I practice sneaking up on my cat to see if I can pet him without waking him up and sometimes he stretches a little and purrs to let me know I was close to the objective.

Oh great .. now I've gone and waxed diversely.

[equus]

The reason I was able to grow beyond my issues of rejection and jealousy was that this person acted in all of their affairs with integrity, homesty, compassion, and sacrifice.

Give me integrity over celebecy any day of the week!! I'd rather know an honest person who bonks for fun, than a person without compassion or integrity.

Your post reminded me of a lass I used to work with - she was a bit of a tart (her label) but had a heart of gold. While she worked with us there was a young farmer who was overweight, not very attractive, no confidence, a bit slow, and generally 'left out' of the other farm lads party hard life. The girl was popular with the lads, never offered long term relationships and stayed friends with all of them that wanted to. She watched what happened with the lad who was left out and decided to do something about it. She never did the chasing - but this time she did, that lad didn't believe what was happening at first, but she sought him out day after day until the inevitable happened. After which she told all of us he was the best lover she ever had, she never changed her story - not even with us girls.

As with the other lads there was no deal for a relationship, he might have been a little on the slow side but he did know that. However the rumours about his success in bed, and I believe MORE than that was the FACT she HAD chased him, and treated him like a hero - it changed him.

I was 16 then, 18 years ago, she stayed friends with him till she moved county. I have stayed knowing many of those farm lads and he is now happily married with three kids. He lost the weight over the 3 or 4 years after her mission, and he doesn't seem slow now. He STILL has the reputation as a super stud, the stories she started about his success in bed are STILL told, now backed up by his wife who has a great deal of affection for Nick, she even says he had a good first teacher.

In my book that was one hell of a gift.

[splendra]

Celebacy for the purpose of incresing self awarness is very different from not ever having been laid because of lack of self confidence. Celebacy is a choice I think made from high self estem and interigrity. The former only lack of precieved oppertunity....

equus- the woman that you spoke of sounds like she had some problems that she was trying to solve thru others. It's just an observation....I know a woman who used to be that way and also was a prostitute,addict,drunk who now suffers with hep-C. She now chooses to deal with her "stuff" thru being celebate and sober. She wants to live....she is one of my oldest friends we used to drink and drug together. Even back then I was concerned for the way she screwed around and I even stopped guys from "pulling trains" on her when she was too drunk. She does have a very kind heart and she hurts a lot and I wish I could take all of her pain away and heal her disease. She has lost so much.... both parents, her husband, a brother... and she still has faith which is totally amazing. (((((DW)))) you my girl.....she will tell anyone who will listen that celebacy is a good thing...

[Chance]

Splendra I read what you had to say and it was pretty cool. I was raised that sex was suppose to be something very special and that it doesn't happen all the time. I didn't even have sex until I was 19 unless you call being malested as a child sex. But what a feeling it is to be able to teach our children that it is something almost sacride. or actually it is at least in my mind. The only time that it wasn't and I really didn't care was when I was drunk or high, then It was all about me and my needs or wants. But sober and clean I have different values and those values are very real to me. thanks for being here.

[Gooch]

I've been involved with several "serial monogonomists" whose lack of self integrity made it impossible for them to be honest with others.

Celibacy and monogomy are seperate entities and not necessarily mutully inclusive. I've been celibate at the same time I've been in monogomous relationships. Sex and love may as well be apples and box end wrenches. They don't even have to be entertained in the same tool box or crisper.

[equus]

I stayed celebate for 9 years - through choice, I had opportunities which I may have taken if I'd felt that special connection but I didn't. I agree it can be a good thing and I'm very happy with what I did as I said earlier in this thread - no regrets.

But that's me, my choice, and doesn't make me any better than the friend I sopke of in my last reply. Probably there isn't a single person on the planet that doesn't have problems, heaven forbid that one day I solve ALL mine, I think I would turn into an arrogant twonk!

The friend who liked to have lots of men seemed to me just to have a high libido, very high. She didn't lie or promise things, she didn't use people, she was very open and honest. Personally I think her honesty was what brought her happiness and success. She did well at work and left to move because she landed her dream job, she's on the international showjumping circuit as a groom, my horse boss still sees her now and again. She's still happy, still excels at work - whatever problems she may have, they're not hindering her proffessionally and if news is anything to go by, she doing well personally too.

She and me are allowed to be different, it doesn't make either of us sick, wrong or any less than the other. Differences between people are good, differences add to the richness of life.

Why not celebrate the differences you see, instead of worrying they show flaws, ill health, or wrongness in others?

[splendra]

I am not worrying about it. But not all people who have multiple sex parrtners are happy in fact I would be willing to bet the farm that most who live like that are doing it because they feel a profound sense of lack and are using sex to try and fill a void instead of expressing love. I just personally believe that sex is not meant for casual encounters and that it is risky behavoir considering the disease factor and anyone who over looks the disease factor and continues to have multiple sex partners is not acting loving towards themself.

[utopia]

to thineself be true

[Evanna]

Originally Posted by Gooch

Sex and love may as well be apples and box end wrenches. They don't even have to be entertained in the same tool box or crisper.

lol, is that somekind of biker analogy. I am liking it!

[Gabe]

You are reading from the book "Touchstones"

"Fears of intimacy, of learning about ourselves in a committed relationship, have kept many of us lonely. Focusing on the need for a sexual high helps us avoid the intimacy we fear. Whether we are in a long-term relationship or not, thinking that sex is love limits our chances for a comfortable intimacy. Sex is an expression of an intimacy that already exists, rather than a way to become intimate.

Many of us fear closeness beyond the romantic stage. Others of us have pursued closeness, but when we met our own emptiness we said that wasn't the right person for us and ran in search of another excitement. The problem for us isn't the choice between singleness and marriage, but between letting someone truly know us or not.

I will set aside my fears and learn the pleasure of intimacy."

[Gooch]

Originally Posted by splendra

I am not worrying about it. But not all people who have multiple sex parrtners are happy in fact I would be willing to bet the farm .

So what will you be doing after farming?

I've got teeth marks in my buttocks from those absolutes I profess to discover.

i know some too whose promiiscuity is a search for distraction from the discomfort of coming face to face with self.

and I know others who honestly have faced all the clutter in the closet and are true to themselves and treat everyone they encounter with the integrity and respect they wish to be treated with.

While it may be difficult to agree upon a definition of what love is. maybe we could find more agreement on what love isn't using general terms.

I'll start.

Love isn't selfish or self serving.

[splendra]

Okay ((((Gooch)))))

I'll bite....

love isn't unkind even to oneself....

[equus]

Love isn't absolute wisdom - about myself or others.

[minnie]

Love isn't lust.

[osier59]

Love isn't giving so much of yourself that you lose yourself in the process.

[splendra]

I would like to point out that I said most people not all people who have multiple sex partners.

I will say that all of the people I personally know who have multiple sex partners are also either alcoholics or drug addicts....and we all know that means they are sick.

love is never scarcastic....

[equus]

love isn't need.

[osier59]

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.

[equus]

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.

Dunno why but that reminded me of D and I talking to his brother. His brother says he'll never marry and we both chuckled. When we got married it was just a matter of standing up and saying in public what had happened between us. When it happened it was as powerful as a 100 foot wave - you ain't gonna discuss much with a 100 foot wave!!!

[Phinneas]

Originally Posted by equus

When it happened it was as powerful as a 100 foot wave - you ain't gonna discuss much with a 100 foot wave!!!

Love that! Sometimes love isn't negotiable.

Maybe, just maybe, there is hope.

Great thread, Splendra and family.

hugs,

phinny

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Seems to me, that things are different now that I don't drink. I'm not talking picking someone up for casual sex but, There's a lot of players at the bars.

Hopefully, the people a person dates when not sober can be honest.

The drinking , drugs and sex all seem to go hand and hand. It's nice to have a close relationship with someone and both people know it's casual as well as maintaining that friendship.

I'm amazed at the women's change in attitude in no commitment. A trip to the courthouse has brought on a lot of living together and no one making a deep long lasting commitment

[utopia]

love is undefinable for me and i dont think saying what it isnt is any different than saying waht it is. its like god sex family whatever theyre all such unique and personal experiences and my ideas of what love is and what it is not have both changed dramatically in my life.

terms like
love
infatuation
fondness
affection
obsession
lust
sex
desire
need
want
inflamed
burnt
broken
used
abused
wanting
waiting
longing
manipulation
orgasm
ownership
co-dependency
inter-dependency
emeshment
togetherness
patience
indifference
ambiguity

WHAT THE **** LOVE ISNT IS IT IT ISNT?

i can only learn and define through my experience cos what i think is and isnt, isnt the same for others. having an isnt ISm attack.

waht somethings are and arent are different for different people at different times. undefinable.

love isnt?

love simply is.

[Face To Face]

It all comes back to procreation, simple instincts, animal nature...anyways...That's what my head is telling me...

[splendra]

I have been searching the net for some good articles about the energy of the sexual act. I realize everyone is unique however, we are all human and we do all have some common ground because of that. We have different conditioning even so we are more alike than different in the energy dynamics of being human. We all feel pain,saddness anger, joy,grief, more likely than not if you do not feel these things it is because you are suppressing which is not unique amoung humans. I think that sometimes we do not consider that we are simular on many levels in seeking our uniqueness.

I mean what good are all these medical studies if we are so different. If we are so different none of the studies could apply to anyone but, the subjects themselves....if we all are so different people would not group together in societies,churches, and other organizations....

anyway here is a link that discusses sexual energy that I found to be very interesting:

http://www.thenewagesite.com/jjdewey.../chapter10.php

[equus]

I used to work on a stud farm. We had 2 stallions, Armando and John 'o' Guant. John would hump anything that moved - if you had put a three legged donkey mare with baldness issues in front of him, he'd still have the libido of a raging bull!! Armando was much more shy, it took him longer to 'draw' well enough to mount, he would nuzzle, squeal and prat about while getting his act together. Sometimes we had to tease him with one mare that he liked then switch mares at the last minute!!

Some mares were old slappers and as soon as they heard a stallion's bellow they would sprag their legs peeing so hard you couldn't get them to walk to the covering pen, some mares were stressy and took a long time to stand legs akimbo.

Seems to me animals are different too - so if this is an 'energy field' issue, (which I'm not any way convinced it is) wouldn't the diffrences in them be likely to be reflected in differences between us?