Is It Love, Sex, or relational Matter?

[Pernell Johnson]

Many of us routinely face the question the title presents. It is not unusual to have a client complain of loving another person who is treating them abusively, being sexual with others, and unaccountable for their actions. The partner in turn complains of feeling bored and predictably will engage in risky behaviors that defy common sense.
After seeing hundreds of clients and looking at patterns of behavior, family of origin relational trauma issues, and addiction problems, it became apparent that early relational trauma sets up dysfunctional adult relational issues. There are two inter-relating issues---one is in the relationship with self and the other is in the relationship with others. The relationship with self presents five primary problems that lead to adult intimacy issues.

*First the client has trouble having a sense of self, spending much of his or her life living in reaction to the object of their affection rather than in action for the self. This is the reality issue; it causes the client to feel empty inside and causes the client to endlessly blame others for how he/she feels emotionally or for what he/she has done.

*Second, the client does not experience inherent worth. He or she gauges his/her sense of value through a process of endless comparison to others, and is too dependent on others to establish either a sense of value or self. This interferes with his/her ability to maturely love others. She generally can hold another person in warm regard only when the other is "behaving properly," or when he/she has created a comfortable fantasy about the other person and uses denial to avoid looking at the other's disturbing behavior.

*Third, the client has no personal boundary system with which to protect and contain himself/herself during intimate exchange. This leads to abusive behavior on her part and involves control and manipulation, raging, ridiculing, lying and/or high tolerance for this type of behavior in a partner.

*The fourth problem involves poor self-care, leading to dependency and interdependency problems in a relationship.

The fifth problem deals with living in the extreme. This is usually exhibited by a lack of moderation in attitude and behavior, which leads to a sense of deadness and/or chaos in a relationship.

[smoke gets in my eyes]

Anybody see somebody they recognize? Thanks PJ, this is cool.

[Pernell Johnson]

Childhood Trauma
It is evident that problems with the "self" lead to intimacy issues. The next question concerns where these problems developed. It appears that childhood trauma sets up several core issues. For example, if a child is not maturely loved by his parents, he will develop self-esteem issues. If he is not protected and taught containment, he will develop boundary problems. If he is forced to do so much adapting, he will lose his sense of self and have trouble being real. If he is not taught to take care of his basic needs and wants, he will have difficulty doing this as an adult. And, if he is severly shamed into containing himself and not taught containment, he will have trouble establishing moderation in his adult life.
Both trauma and core issues drive addictions---be it addiction to substances, processes, or to other people. Trauma, core issues, and addictions create severe relational problems where sex, love and relational matters all seem to become entwined. Knowing where to start is th efirst step in treatment.

[Pernell Johnson]

The Starting Point---Love Addiction

alcohol or drug addictions should be addressed first and foremost. the client must have the ability to think and feel without a mood altering substance. Subsequently, the primary behavioral addiction to be considered is love addiction. A Love addict has been traumatized in childhood by being neglected or abandoned by either parents. The child who suffers from neglect or abandonment learns three toxic ideas from this trauma.

*In a relationship he is worth less than his partner. This kind of trauma is extremely shaming and relationally he will assume a victimposture allowing his partner to be abusive. He will see the partner as a higher power and will literally worship them--giving him a feeling of helplessness---resulting in a lack of self-esteem. The Love Addict does not esteem himself in the relationship, therefore the partner will often assume a position of disrespect and relate out of duty, not love.

*He needs a partner to take care of him. he believes that he cannot take care of himself and emonstrates poor self-care skills, therefore the partner will feel the Love Addict is a burden.

*If he does not get close enough to the partner he will not survive. This client believes that he cannot leave a partner because if he did---he would die. Therefore, the client will exercise no personal boundaries resulting in the partner feeling suffocated and victimized.
This toxicity drives the obsessive/compulsive relational cycle of love addiction. the cycle starts with the Love Addict constructing a fantasy that the partner is a god or goddess, although denial is used to protect the fantasy. Eventually, an event occurs that destroys the fantasy and the love addict goes into withdrawal from the fantasy. The withdrawal is experienced as severe depression, rage, panic, and toxic shame. The Love Addict will then try to relieve the emotional withdrawal by self-medicating with food, drugs, sexual encounters, smoking, alcohol, or locating another person to become the object of addiction. If the partner returns expressing seductive qualities, the Love Addict will pass out of withdrawal and return to fantasy. As a result, the love addict cycle will begin all over again.

Thanks Pernell,
This really is true. I'm living proof.

[JT]

I see myself AND my own parenting in this...which is why I say "you can only do the best that you know how to do at the time. When you know better you will do better"
I pray that the young people get this so, like me, their breakdown won't come at 40 when their children are already acting out.
That way the cycle can truely be broken.

[Pernell Johnson]

Love Avoidance
At the other end of the continuum is love avoidance, an obsessive/compulsive relational cycle that begins with the child's enmeshment with parents (meaning one or both of the parents has no boundaries with the child). The child becomes the support network and provides care for the parents. This concept is best understood by examining the roles a child plays in a dysfunctional family system, such as the family counselor, mediator, mascot, scapegoat, or hero.
Oftentimes, the child may be a surrogate parent to younger siblings. In other situations, "Daddy's little girl" is a situation where the female child is more important to her father than her mother. The child feels superior to her mother and will later serve as her father's surrogate spouse. At the other end of the spectrum, "Mom's little man" is when the son is more important than the father. As, a result, the son often feels superior to the father and becomes a surrogate spouse. In these described roles, the child feels very close to the parent, but is actually too close. He has to adapt too much to the needs of the parent and in the adaptation loses a sense of self and spontaneity. As an adult he will feel easily bored and empty inside, which drives his need to use risk taking to create intensity.
Being enmeshed by a parent creates three toxic ideas in the Love Avoidant:

*When in a relationship with a needy person the Love Avoidant is superior. He will assume a parental position, have all the power, and look down on his partner. This is a core self-issue of poor self-esteem and in a relationship it will cause him to be controlling and disdainful of the partner.

*It is the Love Avoidant's job to take care of needy people. This is how he knows to be relational. It becomes part of his value system and if he is not taking care of someone in need, he feels guilty. As a core self-issue it is a dependency or self-care issue. It causes resentment of the partner, as the love avoidant feels oppressed by his perceived responsibility. He too enters relationships out of duty, not love.

*If the Love Avoidant does not maintain enough distance in a relationship, he will be suffocated. As a result, he uses "walls" to create the distance he needs. As a core issue, this is a boundary problem.

These three toxic thoughts drive a compulsive relational cycle called "the cycle of love avoidance." The cycle starts with the Love Avoidant entering a relationship because the other person needs assistance. The prospective partner seems needy and the avoidant appears to enter the relationship to avoid guilt and because it makes him feel good about himself. However, the Love Avoidant doesn't actually enter a true relationship. He is hiding behind a "wall of seduction" that causes the prospective partner to feel special, but in reality the Avoidant is simply role-playing. The Avoidant is contemplating the relationship out of duty, not love. The result is resentment at having to work so hard to be in a relationship in which he really doesn't want to participate. He then uses the anger to justify his escape from the duty-bound relationship.
As self-medication, he seeks high intensity to relieve his boredom and make him feel wonderful. He starts risk-taking behavior such as sexually acting out, gambling with money or his life, drinking, drugging, or work addiction. However, following such behavior, he starts to feel guilty because he is not properly caring for his partner, so he returns out of guilt and restarts the entire avoidant cycle.
Humans tend to be relationally attracted to what is familiar. The Love Addict is attracted to people who are distant and relationally irresponsible, similar to his neglrctful parent/s. The Love Avoidant is compelled to be relational with needy people who put him in a god-like position. It is not unusual to see these two types of people enter into relationships with one another, whereby they often stimulate each other's cycle.

[Pernell Johnson]

Nothing To Do With Love........
The Love Addict enters the relationship masked in fantasy that is stimulated by the avoidant's "wall of seduction," He uses the fantasy to mask the Love Avoidant's distancing. The Love Avoidant uses the "wall of seduction" to make the Love Addict feel good and to keep himself safe from soffocation. Then as the Love Avoidant develops resentments, leaves and acts out to create intensity, the Love Addict uses denial to maintain his fantasy.
The resentment and distancing eventually break the Love Addict's denial and they enter emotional withdrawal from the fantasy. Because he is so unhappy, the Love Avoidant starts to feel guilty and returns to the relationship with a wall of seduction that usually starts the two cycling again. This is not about love for either partner. It is a combination of addiction, toxic sexual behavior, and deep relational problems.

Hello Pernell...

I cannot understand how in the world one could spend as much time in therapy as I have (nearly l8 years on and off) with experts in trauma and such and still not have gotten that kind of valuable information. You just layed out one of the major root problems in my life. It would have been so helpful if these doctors would have just disclosed their thoughts as well as insisting that I spill my story over and over. Thank you for posting this.

Sincerely,

Tricia

[Pernell Johnson]

If I had a little girl, I would tell her all the things I think she would need to know to be fully prepared for life. I would tell her that there will be good days and bad days, and that she should be grateful for them all. I would tell her that she is always protected, and no matter what she does, she will always be loved.
I would tell my little girl that life is full of wonder and excitement, and that it is all available to her. I would tell her to focus on one thing at a time. Enjoy it, taking the most pleasant memories of it into the next experience. I would tell her to be kind to all people, even when they are not kind in return. I would tell my little girl to find something to appreciate about everything and everyone. When you are appreciative, you get more to appreciate.
I would tell my little girl that she did not have to rely on people for her good., that she could withdraw all that she needs from Heaven. I would tell her to always tell the truth in the way she would want to hear it; always give her best and never doubt that it was good enough; always remember where she came from and the people who helped her along the way.
I would tell my little girl that the best things in life are not things. They are people. I would tell my little girl that it is important for her to honor what she feels. I would tell her that a well-ordered mind will never lead her astray, and that if her mind and life are to be in order, she must put God first. The most important thing I would want my little girl to know is that she should never be afraid of making a mistake, because mistakes, when evaluated, make masters.

Today, I will talk to myself, listen to myself and heed my own advice.


Just for Today-----------I am Sober

<img border="0" alt="[Jump]" title="" src="graemlins/../graemlins/jump.gif" />

[Kitty]

Pernell,
That was a wonderful post. I have realized just in the last few weeks...that I am drawn to rescue relationships. No normal nice guys for me! Oh no! My A and I are in a relationship that is right out of your text. I am the superior keeper/controller of the relationship...he is the needy person who thinks I am wonderful, so wonderful that he is drunk everyday.
I hope I have made a better mark with my adult children, so far they are doing well in the emotional department, I tried very hard to be the available Mother.
Thanks for all of the valuabble info.
Regrards,
Kitty

[Gypsygirlmom]

MG,

Oh My........
I am just unable to move right now. It hits home so hard, I actually feel scared. I never knew.

Thank you so much for bringing this up today, I needed this, hit me right between the eyes.

Thank you Pernell!

[Paulie]

WOW -

I had never read this before - such great information. do I see myself - OH YEAH!!!!!

thanks MG for bringing this to the top again!!! I am amazed at how much this has and is still me. I was completely addicted to Paul when we were using together and even though I have been sober for a bit I still put him first, why is it that it is more important for him to be happy than for me to be happy. And I don't mean with big huge issues, I mean just with the little everyday stuff? I really need some help with the stuff...It has to do with my own self worth, and comparing myself to others, yeah, oh yeah!!! I should not better than that, but I don't???

Thanks again MG - and thanks Pernell for always giving such great information to think about.

[Ninerfan]

Pernell that was a wonderful post about 'if I had a little girl'. Little minds should always be empowered; big minds too. The love avoidance theory rings a bell with me, at least in the past. My present is much more healthy and balanced. Someone asked in another post what sobriety meant, and to me it means balance. Emotional, spiritual, physical balance. Having the ability to LIVE AND LET LIVE. Having the ability to love and be loved. Not necessarily sexually either. My little two cents worth is just this. The only way I achieved any sense of well being and 'balance' was by working the steps. That is te main reason I have come to these boards, to try and convey the message contained in the steps. They are the best mental health tools I have yet found.

A final point, I work fo a school district, and the teachers tell me that they can predict which students will go on to college and make it, which ones will drop out and problably do drugs, which ones will get pregnant early and struggle through life etc. And these kids are in Kindergarten, 1st and 2nd. But these teachers somehow know. So are our personalities formed by that age or are we born to be the people we eventually become. In other words are we just wired a certain way to produce a certain kind of human. Did I become an alcohoic because Mom and Dad were emotionally unavailable and unable to give me the support I needed? Or, am I geneticaly predisposed to abuse alcohol and nothing Mom and Dad could have done would have made any difference?

I've strayed from your topic; let me just encourage people on this board to work the steps. That is the way out for me. Thanks for listenig

N

[bikerprincess]

This information is priceless...Thanks so much

[Cajun girl]

What a wonderful post. I can't tell you how much I wish one of my parents would have said those things to me growing up. Thank you for your insight, wisdom, and grace.

[spindell]

WOW


I just read your post , and , blimey do i see myself, or "wot", it really smack me in the eyes, es[eically the part , about itf i had a little girl. I can only hope that im doing the best for my kids, My son has had some huge health problems but he;s come through as a nice compassionate boy, As for my daughter, well im going to start really enforcing her worth. The patterns that are parents set for us really have quite a impact on our lives , dont they?, Although i have kind of been aware of this , in bringing up my own kids, i never really related it back to me ,and my childhood. Its certainly given me food for thought today.

Thanks pernell, it was brill

hugs spin

[sugar52]

thanks pernell,,

it was real nice of you to write about me and my relationships. scary and really makes me wonder if any of the people that i've spent my life with were worthy of my love and what's the matter with me?? all those choices that i've made have been insane. NOW, how to break the chain. starting with me. babysteps out of heck!!! eye-opening post and a little scary.daddy's little girl, that's me!!sexually abused by brother from age 3or 4till 12 years old.just recent flashbacks to deal with in nightmares and uncontrollable rages lately. i'm in counseling while i live with my recently sober and angry addict 2nd husband whose abuse of the family and me has put him into a begrudging sobriety. i care for my mom with the 3rd stages of alzheimers and aall of the dementia associated with abuse of the caregiver. i take care of the woman who couln't take care of me. i was married to a emotionally distant verbally abusive functional alcholic the first time and have worked for 4 abusive bosses over my lifetime and just recently snapped and said NO MORE ABUSE! HENCE THE REALITIES of my life flashing in and with my trying to work the 12 steps tenatively again and keep the focus on me all of a sudden i'm dealing with me. 49 years old and i just might get out of my cycle. thanks for being part of my day with your post, even though it really disturbed me i think it will help me change and grow in a positive way for me. 1 little step towards awareness. thanks

To the top

[liveweyerd]

Thanks MG and to the top

[dancingqueen]

I just emailed your post "If I had a little girl" to my daughter. It is beautiful. Thank you

[kate01]

Thanks for this post!

And Sugar, you are simply amazing. You have so much on your plate and you are a fantastic person. Most people just play the cards they were dealt, and here you are saying, "To heck with this, I have the power of personal choice. I'm going to start choosing my own cards and turning things around for the better."

So often I am in awe of you guys. Thanks for the inspiration and the power of this post.

Hugs to all,
kate

[njriverman]

Pernell well put posts...

I have found some recovery in Sexaholics Anonymous.... any thoughts?