Is It Love, Sex, or relational Matter?

[Pernell Johnson]

Hello everyone. I have some very simple suggestions. as you know we are complicated people so "KISS" meaining Keep It Simple Stupid. All jokes aside this is what I suggest.

1. First and foremost know that happiness comes from within. As you wake each morning affirm that you will be happy today!!! No Matter What.

2. For the women who are not in detox or rehab. This is a special mission, listen carefully. I want you to practice being feminine at all all cost.Next I want you to create an atmosphere of "Romance." Can You Hear Me???
I am not finish with this yet but you need one more suggestion.

3. Create and maintain an atmosphere of recovery through sponsorship, 12 steps, NA/AA--Co-Dep. friends. A new playground so to speak.

Back to No 2. Women are romantics at heart but have forgotten how to be romanced. Small things like the curve in your leg and the way you put your stockings on, the way you choose your heels, the type of skirt, dress or pants that you wear and the blouse the coupe d' gra. Please get your mind right first, meditate and think about what it means to be romantic, read and write to yourself on the subject. Be coy, exercise your wiles that women possess, never aggressive or forward, never demanding but always persistant. If I have left something out----Help Me!!! I am trying to remind you that you are to be romanced, courted, dated, revered and loved for yourself not for a fantasy that can never be loved---it is not real. ROMANCE IS REAL.
I promise you that if you master this----recovery is right around the corner.

4. Men, my brothers, we do not know how to be romantic. But we are good students of women who are romantic and demand to be courted and loved. Take a lesson, learn the art of romance including heart felt flowers and cards.
(No Game Allowed). If you are sincere about having a healthy relationship. Learn to be. The before mentioned addictions --love avoidant and love addicts cannot stand up under the heat of this kind of recovery. Men, practice being Men---not Men in Training.

This is simple. I could be wordy and eloquent but that is not the object here. The object is to recover from these dreaded addictions and recognize them for what they are---Unhealthy Relationships.

Suggested reading material-----Stage II Recovery. I do not remember the authors name--look it up on Hazelden.


Can You Hear Me Now!!!!------------------Can You Hear Me Now!!!!!

[njriverman]

Originally Posted by lrywin

I don't solely base my self esteem on them, but its REALLY hard when the last 10 men I've met were all LOSERS (online dating services). And those are the ones I actually met with AFTER the phone conversations/emails to avoid any CRAZY folks. Plenty of those.

I've begun to feel what's wrong with me? I've had some men in my life that were decent, and I was married for a long time, but where are the decent men?

I know there are decent men out there. Even at 45. At the rate of divorce, there has to be some men out there who are divorced and decent. At my age, I'm not interested in anyone who has never been married either.

I know for me I have to look at myself... my therapist always tells me we can only attract someone as sick or sicker then ourself.... Gee no wonedr healthy women ran from me!

[Angellost]

I relate so much to the postings about love addicts and the love avoiders! I am trying to get over a long distance relationship WITH a love avoider, I think...for 4 years. He refuses to talk to or acknowledge me now in any way, even changed his phone number...He is in Canada and I am in PA so he pretty much nixed any way for me to get in touch...
I know we are BOTH to blame for the end...but he blames me-refuses to acknowledge any fault of his own...I am difficult, argumentative, too much trouble...
In my head, I know it was not all me...I see his problems, too, but it is so hard for me right now to get over the self blame and anger. I do know much of what happened was me, and his inability or unwillingness to understand my addictions and problems - to work through them
...I suffer from many issues...abandonment being a huge part of my problems, due to losing my parents and oldest sister at age 12 and being swept up by an unloving relative for the monthly income supplied and moved to another state...not being allowed to grieve or get support and help to acknowledge and work through my losses - being told I was not allowed to cry at night due to waking up my cousin in the room...much trauma and hurt, resulting in no self esteem, sense of boundaries or sense of self. This man knows how much I am frightened and hurt by total abandonment and did that regardless.
I continually fall in love with emotionally unavailable people, or people who DO love me but end up being disgusted with me and not wanting to work through things with me.
This man and I knew each other's problems - depression, loss, etc...and were to be together - naturally I was to give up everything - home, friends, job, etc...and move to live with him - willingly - because I love him...The problem is he never truly loved me, although I think he convinced himself he did. I became a burden. We were best friends before a relationship, confided everything about each other, were very supportive and caring, and I am now totally lost. He doesn't even consider me worth being a friend because he considers me too sick and toxic, I believe. I attempted to erase myself completely from life in my depression and he told me he can't DEAL with me...he constantly sent me mixed messages and then denied my questions regarding insight into his actions.

I need to know how to let go...to stop obsessing...to ease the pain. I am spiritual and am turning it over MINUTE BY MINUTE...by am so tired of grief and pain and shame...

Help?

[hionlife]

Your experience (clients) was so hauntingly like me, my life...ect that I have goose-bumps. Everyday im trying to convince myself to leave him, but in two years (ive allowed) him to take my soul, spirit, youth. Im convinced I am worthless, ect... I pray this comes to and end or I fear where it will take me. Thank you!

[Pernell Johnson]

I have a suggestion that may or may not you with your addiction;
check out: Pia Mellody at www.themeadows.org

[goincold]

Wow, this one explains what I am going through now, Thanks for this one I can get a better grasp now, I hope.

[roadie58]

Oh my God, that Love Addict circle is me exactly. I've recently discovered the cause of much of my depression, drug use, and drinking was a girl who works for me occasionally in my business. She's much too young for me, but is gorgeous, sweet, and unfortunately, very 'teasy'.

I recently went on anti-depressants to help my moods, as I've been working the AA program on and off for 3 years, somewhat successfully, but with numerous relapses. Details of my situation are on my thread under Substance Abuse called 'I'm ALIVE'. It's been closed due to 'sexual' nature of posts, perhaps they belonged here.

Do you think I might need to get into SAA?

Any help would be appreciated.

[roadie58]

Sorry for any duplication.

[roadie58]

any help anybody????

[sweetcandy0919]

Hi Johnson,

Yes, your argument is agreeable, and the people, who have experienced trauma in childhood, are more likely to manifest distorted cognitive and behavioral patterns. It becomes apparent especially in the issue of intimacy and relationship.

My mother has some type of personality disorder, thus I had walked on the eggshell on daily basis. Beside, I had never experienced any approval/acceptance and healthy love from authority figures. Thus I do not have a sense of self-worth and I do not know the appropriate boundary from people. Fortunately, I do not have a personality disorder, as my mother has, Yet I clearly have some traits, which I have learned from my mother.

I now understand the importance of healthy parenting in childhood, and the impact of unhealthy parenting leads to dysfunctional relationship and social interaction when we become adult..

Love,
candy

[dinkii]

I am new to actually seeking outside communication w/co dependancy addiction. I have always read books and never been able to change too much.
I have been in a relationship that switched back and forth with the both of us being love avoidant/ addicted. Beyond all this, i do deeply love my partner. however he just broke it off really suddenly and cruelly, and has been almost robotic about it. I wanted to work on things. Does a relationship with these types of dynamics ever stand a chance of becoming something different or healed?

[Pernell Johnson]

Hello dinkil, i read and received your information. The only thing I have is a question. When is enough, enough. This situations and relations are toxic, if you know what I mean. There is another way to live. I suggest you look and find it before it becomes tragic. Just a suggestion.

[dinkii]

Thanks Pernell. I know it is Toxic and change is needed. We are seperated now. But it is hard to not hope, for a way to work things out if we both start having awareness and actually do some work. But i am trying to find a good way to live. i have not learned from my family how too in a healthy way, but i am going to do my best.

[Pernell Johnson]

Here is a positive suggestion that may or may not be helpful but it cannot hurt. Take a look at this site and please report back so I know if in fact it was helpful.

www.loveaddicts.org/kindsofloveaddicts.html

[dinkii]

Thanks I checked out the link. It is very very helpful. At least I have some awareness and I can start healing al this.

Thanks so much.

[books333]

hello! Iam new at this, Iam a mother of a heroin addict.

[margo]

Welcome Books333! Please be sure to stop in to the Naranon forum and introduce yourself - you're not alone and there's lots of moms of addicted children waiting to say hello!

[Tashi]

OK,, I am in tears now!

[Pernell Johnson]

Happy New Year Tashi, I am available if you want to talk!

[needhelpINNJ75]

Hello, I am new to this forum but have read it and found it very interesting. I am in Ocean County, NJ and am in need of help for Love Addiction, Abusive Relationship/CoDependency, can you please help me find counseling, groups, or an inpatient facility as soon as possible. It is getting so bad and I am tolerating more and more in this relationship and I need help... thank you so much.

[Pernell Johnson]

Hello needhelp, I do not usually come but I got your message. Listen, Pia is an expert at this kind of treatment. Now, where you will have to go for treatment you can talk to her about that. I am going to give you her name and website and you guys can talk. Her name is Pia Melody;
http://www.themeadows.org/index.html

If you have any problems with contacting her or the website e-mail me or send me a private message.

http://www.themeadows.org/index

[miumau]

This sounds so much like the problems I'm having in my relationship...
Thanks.

[katwomankc]

These Are Really Great!!! I Am Married Have Been For 22 Going On 23 Yrs And My Problem Is Intimacy And Being Touched. I Hate Being Touched. I Dont Know If This Stems From Growing Up. I Know It Does. Anyways Thanks.

[Tanush74]

Originally Posted by Pernell Johnson

The Starting Point---Love Addiction

alcohol or drug addictions should be addressed first and foremost. the client must have the ability to think and feel without a mood altering substance. Subsequently, the primary behavioral addiction to be considered is love addiction. A Love addict has been traumatized in childhood by being neglected or abandoned by either parents. The child who suffers from neglect or abandonment learns three toxic ideas from this trauma.

*In a relationship he is worth less than his partner. This kind of trauma is extremely shaming and relationally he will assume a victimposture allowing his partner to be abusive. He will see the partner as a higher power and will literally worship them--giving him a feeling of helplessness---resulting in a lack of self-esteem. The Love Addict does not esteem himself in the relationship, therefore the partner will often assume a position of disrespect and relate out of duty, not love.

*He needs a partner to take care of him. he believes that he cannot take care of himself and emonstrates poor self-care skills, therefore the partner will feel the Love Addict is a burden.

*If he does not get close enough to the partner he will not survive. This client believes that he cannot leave a partner because if he did---he would die. Therefore, the client will exercise no personal boundaries resulting in the partner feeling suffocated and victimized.
This toxicity drives the obsessive/compulsive relational cycle of love addiction. the cycle starts with the Love Addict constructing a fantasy that the partner is a god or goddess, although denial is used to protect the fantasy. Eventually, an event occurs that destroys the fantasy and the love addict goes into withdrawal from the fantasy. The withdrawal is experienced as severe depression, rage, panic, and toxic shame. The Love Addict will then try to relieve the emotional withdrawal by self-medicating with food, drugs, sexual encounters, smoking, alcohol, or locating another person to become the object of addiction. If the partner returns expressing seductive qualities, the Love Addict will pass out of withdrawal and return to fantasy. As a result, the love addict cycle will begin all over again.

Wow I think this may be me sometimes...especially with the relationship that my girl going into recovery just had to end between us.
Yikes...

[yourgirl]

Dar pernell,
I woke up this morning 3:am thinking of so many things you just posted.You have given me hope that I am on the right path with relationships. I want to read this over and over and remember and learn and know this stuff.I was looking around for an answer this morning on this site. Now I realize I had some of it figured out correctly and do know I am getting better.I have a lot to learn and need to stay strong .I wish I could turn you on like a mini tape recorder in my ear and follow me everywhere for awhile. Thank-you so much