Is It Love, Sex, or relational Matter? - Page 2 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Lovebird · 08-04-2004, 07:43 AM

After spending so much time in unhealthy relationships where we find the wrong type of partner and hiding behind our walls, what will happen if we "accidently" get into a healthy relationship. Can we ever change and come out from behind our walls, or are we destined to lose this relationship because we simply don't know what to do with it.

Marcinor · 08-04-2004, 07:59 PM

This is really good stuff! I wonder if you can switch roles during the course of the relationship? Maybe I'm just in denial about always having been this way?

Thanks Pernell!

myselfagain · 08-04-2004, 10:28 PM

I will make a framed poem of this for each of my girls. Then i will replace boy with girl and give one to my son.
Thank you!!!

chess · 08-05-2004, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovebird

After spending so much time in unhealthy relationships where we find the wrong type of partner and hiding behind our walls, what will happen if we "accidently" get into a healthy relationship. Can we ever change and come out from behind our walls, or are we destined to lose this relationship because we simply don't know what to do with it.

Good point. I would like to get an answer to this one too. I certainly do hope we can all change and be happy with ourselves.

Lorelai · 08-05-2004, 07:51 AM

I think that anyone can change their behavior if they have the information they need and if they are willing to do the work and face the truth.

None of us are destined to be unhealthy forever. We can have anything we want if we want it badly enough and work hard enough to get there.

If we keep jumping into relationships to fill the hole within ourselves, we're in trouble. Relationships with other people are not nearly as important as our relationship with ourself.
L

Sad_Hazeleyes · 08-05-2004, 08:05 AM

Boy did this hit home. My only problem is that I do want to deny it, and pray that it is not true. I pray to God that he will take away the pain and open my eyes. He has definitely opened my eyes with several of these posts that miraculously pop up for me to read, but I wish the pain would just get easier. I like the love and happiness that I feel in my fantasy world, and I am having a very hard time giving it up. I have read a lot about love addiction, trauma bonding, and so forth, but all I want to do is go into denial. Please God help me!!!

Sad_Hazeleyes

**Pony** · 08-05-2004, 10:45 PM

Thanks Pernell.....I just saw this thread for the first time and realized that it was started a long while ago.....guess I was meant to see it now!!!

It was long reading but found lots that I identify with and lots to think about!!

nikki33 · 08-05-2004, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Thanks Pernell.....I just saw this thread for the first time and realized that it was started a long while ago.....guess I was meant to see it now!!!!!

Ditto!!

njriverman · 08-09-2004, 02:34 PM

I think I have switched back and forth especially when my partner was a drug addict, and me being a sex/love addict.

ButterflyChaser · 02-02-2005, 12:01 PM

I am totally in tears right now after reading the part about..."if I had a little girl" I was fantisizing that my dad was saying this to me! Don't know if I'm just emtional today or it just hit me that way.
Thanks Pernell for that & everything else, i never really seen it that way!

ihelpkids · 02-22-2005, 10:21 PM

Pernell,

Is it possible to fluctuate between the two roles, Love Avoidant and Love Addict? Sometimes I feel like I play different roles at different times or with different people.

Thanks

Scorpio007 · 02-23-2005, 12:45 AM

I can see this very cycle in my relationship as we speak. I've read something like this B4. I read this on a relationship site. How do one rid themselves of this behavior? I Believe it was associated w/the chase theory. I want to break this cycle, I'm the love addict he's the love avoidant. My relationship play out exactly the way it is in this post. I'm not in denial it's a wake up call for me to do something. He blames me for everything. I try communicating he won't hear me. I'm blamed for the whole situation. It 's emotional blackmail to me. All I ever ask is to be treated w/respect and to be loved. Yes I have the childhood issues yes I have abandonment issue. I feel like I want to cry.

journeygal · 02-23-2005, 05:58 AM

IHK,

I have a book about this. I'll dig it up for you. But to answer your question, yes, we often fluctuate between the two roles. It's part of the cycle. The love addict gets to a point where they try to break out of the cycle and the love avoidant fears being abandoned, so they turn into the love addict and start pursuing the original love addict, which sucks them back in, unless they're strong enough to resist getting caught back in the cycle. It's a frustrating problem.

I think we rid ourselves of this behavior when we start accepting that no person can fulfill all of our needs. Happiness doesn't come from another person, it comes from within. Our self-worth doesn't come from our relationship, our job, our kids, etc. It comes from knowing our own worth and loving ourselves. No one can ever abandon us. They can leave us, but as long as we love, accept, and don't abandon ourselves, we will always be ok.

ihelpkids · 02-23-2005, 07:14 PM

Thanks JourneyGal! I seem to be thanking you a lot lately! I appreciate your insight and feedback.

Scorpio007 · 02-24-2005, 03:11 AM

Thank you JG

Miss Melinda · 03-13-2005, 06:43 PM

I have never heard this explained so well. I can so see my self in this. In fact I can see every relationship I have ever had in this. Sure is something to think and study on. Thank you for posting that!!!! That is an eye opener.

needtogrowup · 04-20-2005, 12:41 PM

Ditto Sugar52. It's wonderful that we have not stopped seeking answers to our life issues. I wonder pernell...Can a couple bounce back and forward in these roles. As I have detached from my Love addict role..I feel responsible for the Love avoid. parner and he becomes needy on my support and we seem to reverse roles. I have after over 5 yrs..stopped believing in the fantasy. I think my Pot addiction was always 2ndary to my love addiction issues from my messed up childhood. I also was the clown as a child, so I wanted to be taken care of and not have to be resp. yet chose love avoid. parners..and still ended up being the one who have to support finiancally the partner. Its all so interwined..it seems these roles can easlily be switched.

needtogrowup · 04-23-2005, 03:43 PM

Thank you JG. I am in the act of doing this. Better late than Never as a 58 yr. old with lots of ism's. I am grateful for the info and insight so clearly expressing my issues.

**Ann** · 04-24-2005, 07:29 AM

Quote:

*First the client has trouble having a sense of self, spending much of his or her life living in reaction to the object of their affection rather than in action for the self. This is the reality issue; it causes the client to feel empty inside and causes the client to endlessly blame others for how he/she feels emotionally or for what he/she has done.

I have read this and everything Pernell has written here many times, and yet only today did this paragraph jump out at me.

I see this clearly in my parenting relationship with my son. For so many years, and even sometimes today, my life has been a "reaction" to his...which isn't what surprised me. What surprised me today is how much I have blamed him for how I feel. "Blamed" may be too harsh a word to describe it, but I have allowed myself to react far too often to circumstances that I do not own and that I cannot control.

It is yet another time where I tend to live in the problem, rather than the solution.

I miss Pernell, he always kept me on my toes.

Hugs
Ann

osier59 · 04-25-2005, 06:26 AM

pssst Ann

Where did he go???

needtogrowup · 04-25-2005, 11:41 AM

hey guys and gals,
I have distanced myself from my love avoid and have yet to firmly tell him that I am not longer his girlfriend. I live in a house where it is not easy to call me. I have in 6 months been focusing on me..and been able to stop the crazy behavior that had me dropping everything to go to him and gave him all or most of my money and all of my engery and time just to be with him. Actually...he is the love addict now..and I am the love avoid. It seems that all my life this has been at the core of my problems. It is wonderful to see in this thread a clear picture of what my life has been.

**Ann** · 04-25-2005, 08:02 PM

psssst, Barb, Pernell still drops around, but I believe he is pretty busy with his own website (I have lost the link but will try to find it), and his counselling and if I am not mistaken he has done a lot of writing on the subject. Nobody, but nobody, could tell it like it is like Pernell. I really love that man, he scared the hell out of me with his wisdom, but I love him to death.

Hugs
Ann

needtogrowup · 04-26-2005, 06:40 PM

just have to say...Pernell clearly says it like it is. I no longer blame anyone and my past just makes me more understanding of others with silimar issues.

I loved Pernell's words about alcoholics and their co-dependents as well. He writes such power stuff that I am awed by his wisdom and understanding.

lrywin · 05-01-2005, 07:28 PM

I don't solely base my self esteem on them, but its REALLY hard when the last 10 men I've met were all LOSERS (online dating services). And those are the ones I actually met with AFTER the phone conversations/emails to avoid any CRAZY folks. Plenty of those.

I've begun to feel what's wrong with me? I've had some men in my life that were decent, and I was married for a long time, but where are the decent men?

I know there are decent men out there. Even at 45. At the rate of divorce, there has to be some men out there who are divorced and decent. At my age, I'm not interested in anyone who has never been married either.

utopia · 09-05-2005, 03:24 AM

thanks all, and jg for taht post about finding it within.
the more im in recvoery i realise that noone can fulfill all my needs and ihave to look at it and accept it, i learnt the hard way but how i had to that my fantasies werent true and how i long for them to come back sometimes, people have tol me that sort of love doesnt exist with the whole swirling skies and birds around us as we kiss and ride off into the sunset. addictions aside, a lot of that comes from culture and media too that once im married or in a marriage like relationship life begins. thanks again. i would love to hear more about how to deal and move away from being a love avoid/addict and to be healthier if theres anything pernell or related stuff.

08-04-2004, 07:59 PM	#27 (permalink)
Marcinor Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 80	This is really good stuff! I wonder if you can switch roles during the course of the relationship? Maybe I'm just in denial about always having been this way? Thanks Pernell! __________________ Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you're scared. -Eddie Rickenbacker

08-05-2004, 07:51 AM	#30 (permalink)
Lorelai Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Star's Hollow Posts: 615	I think that anyone can change their behavior if they have the information they need and if they are willing to do the work and face the truth. None of us are destined to be unhealthy forever. We can have anything we want if we want it badly enough and work hard enough to get there. If we keep jumping into relationships to fill the hole within ourselves, we're in trouble. Relationships with other people are not nearly as important as our relationship with ourself. L __________________ Unless it is illegal, immoral or life threatening, never turn down a new experience..

08-05-2004, 10:45 PM	#32 (permalink)
Pony Forum Leader Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: trail of discovery Posts: 2,327	Thanks Pernell.....I just saw this thread for the first time and realized that it was started a long while ago.....guess I was meant to see it now!!! It was long reading but found lots that I identify with and lots to think about!! __________________ "Failure is an EVENT, it is not a person – yesterday really did end last night, and today is your brand new day..." .........unknown The sun always rises, and a new day begins.

02-02-2005, 12:01 PM	#35 (permalink)
ButterflyChaser Meow! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow Posts: 1,023	I am totally in tears right now after reading the part about..."if I had a little girl" I was fantisizing that my dad was saying this to me! Don't know if I'm just emtional today or it just hit me that way. Thanks Pernell for that & everything else, i never really seen it that way! __________________ "If a Child feels Safe, Wanted & Loved, You are a Successful Parent!" ~~"A relationship is like sand in your hand. If held loosely in the palm of your hand it stays there, but as soon as you close your hand tightly it slips through your fingers!!~~

02-22-2005, 10:21 PM	#36 (permalink)
ihelpkids Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 20	Pernell, Is it possible to fluctuate between the two roles, Love Avoidant and Love Addict? Sometimes I feel like I play different roles at different times or with different people. Thanks __________________ phoenix823 There are far more horse's asses than there are horses.

08-04-2004, 07:43 AM	#26 (permalink)
Lovebird Paused Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 16	After spending so much time in unhealthy relationships where we find the wrong type of partner and hiding behind our walls, what will happen if we "accidently" get into a healthy relationship. Can we ever change and come out from behind our walls, or are we destined to lose this relationship because we simply don't know what to do with it.

08-04-2004, 10:28 PM	#28 (permalink)
myselfagain Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: USA Posts: 105	I will make a framed poem of this for each of my girls. Then i will replace boy with girl and give one to my son. Thank you!!!

08-05-2004, 08:05 AM	#31 (permalink)
Sad_Hazeleyes sparkling hazeleyes Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Alexandria VA Posts: 84	Boy did this hit home. My only problem is that I do want to deny it, and pray that it is not true. I pray to God that he will take away the pain and open my eyes. He has definitely opened my eyes with several of these posts that miraculously pop up for me to read, but I wish the pain would just get easier. I like the love and happiness that I feel in my fantasy world, and I am having a very hard time giving it up. I have read a lot about love addiction, trauma bonding, and so forth, but all I want to do is go into denial. Please God help me!!! Sad_Hazeleyes

08-09-2004, 02:34 PM	#34 (permalink)
njriverman Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 64	I think I have switched back and forth especially when my partner was a drug addict, and me being a sex/love addict.

02-23-2005, 12:45 AM	#37 (permalink)
Scorpio007 Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Baltimore Md. Posts: 35	Love Addict I can see this very cycle in my relationship as we speak. I've read something like this B4. I read this on a relationship site. How do one rid themselves of this behavior? I Believe it was associated w/the chase theory. I want to break this cycle, I'm the love addict he's the love avoidant. My relationship play out exactly the way it is in this post. I'm not in denial it's a wake up call for me to do something. He blames me for everything. I try communicating he won't hear me. I'm blamed for the whole situation. It 's emotional blackmail to me. All I ever ask is to be treated w/respect and to be loved. Yes I have the childhood issues yes I have abandonment issue. I feel like I want to cry.

02-23-2005, 05:58 AM	#38 (permalink)
journeygal believer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: walking in faith Posts: 1,030	IHK, I have a book about this. I'll dig it up for you. But to answer your question, yes, we often fluctuate between the two roles. It's part of the cycle. The love addict gets to a point where they try to break out of the cycle and the love avoidant fears being abandoned, so they turn into the love addict and start pursuing the original love addict, which sucks them back in, unless they're strong enough to resist getting caught back in the cycle. It's a frustrating problem. I think we rid ourselves of this behavior when we start accepting that no person can fulfill all of our needs. Happiness doesn't come from another person, it comes from within. Our self-worth doesn't come from our relationship, our job, our kids, etc. It comes from knowing our own worth and loving ourselves. No one can ever abandon us. They can leave us, but as long as we love, accept, and don't abandon ourselves, we will always be ok. __________________ Whether they find recovery or not, we survive...and then we thrive. ~Gabe

02-23-2005, 07:14 PM	#39 (permalink)
ihelpkids Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 20	Thanks JourneyGal! I seem to be thanking you a lot lately! I appreciate your insight and feedback. __________________ phoenix823 There are far more horse's asses than there are horses.

02-24-2005, 03:11 AM	#40 (permalink)
Scorpio007 Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Baltimore Md. Posts: 35	Thank you JG

03-13-2005, 06:43 PM	#41 (permalink)
Miss Melinda .......waiting Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 7	I have never heard this explained so well. I can so see my self in this. In fact I can see every relationship I have ever had in this. Sure is something to think and study on. Thank you for posting that!!!! That is an eye opener. __________________ MMI have learned this about sobriety, if I don't like it, I can always go back. My past is a stones throw into my future if I choose it to be.

04-20-2005, 12:41 PM	#42 (permalink)
needtogrowup Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 137	Ditto Sugar52. It's wonderful that we have not stopped seeking answers to our life issues. I wonder pernell...Can a couple bounce back and forward in these roles. As I have detached from my Love addict role..I feel responsible for the Love avoid. parner and he becomes needy on my support and we seem to reverse roles. I have after over 5 yrs..stopped believing in the fantasy. I think my Pot addiction was always 2ndary to my love addiction issues from my messed up childhood. I also was the clown as a child, so I wanted to be taken care of and not have to be resp. yet chose love avoid. parners..and still ended up being the one who have to support finiancally the partner. Its all so interwined..it seems these roles can easlily be switched. __________________ :rose Needtogrowup

04-23-2005, 03:43 PM	#43 (permalink)
needtogrowup Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 137	Thank you JG. I am in the act of doing this. Better late than Never as a 58 yr. old with lots of ism's. I am grateful for the info and insight so clearly expressing my issues. __________________ :rose Needtogrowup

04-25-2005, 06:26 AM	#45 (permalink)
osier59 No More Mrs. Nice Guy Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 723	pssst Ann Where did he go??? __________________ ~~Put on your big girl panties and deal with it!

04-25-2005, 11:41 AM	#46 (permalink)
needtogrowup Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 137	hey guys and gals, I have distanced myself from my love avoid and have yet to firmly tell him that I am not longer his girlfriend. I live in a house where it is not easy to call me. I have in 6 months been focusing on me..and been able to stop the crazy behavior that had me dropping everything to go to him and gave him all or most of my money and all of my engery and time just to be with him. Actually...he is the love addict now..and I am the love avoid. It seems that all my life this has been at the core of my problems. It is wonderful to see in this thread a clear picture of what my life has been. __________________ :rose Needtogrowup

04-25-2005, 08:02 PM	#47 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 15,028	psssst, Barb, Pernell still drops around, but I believe he is pretty busy with his own website (I have lost the link but will try to find it), and his counselling and if I am not mistaken he has done a lot of writing on the subject. Nobody, but nobody, could tell it like it is like Pernell. I really love that man, he scared the hell out of me with his wisdom, but I love him to death. Hugs Ann __________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

04-26-2005, 06:40 PM	#48 (permalink)
needtogrowup Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 137	just have to say...Pernell clearly says it like it is. I no longer blame anyone and my past just makes me more understanding of others with silimar issues. I loved Pernell's words about alcoholics and their co-dependents as well. He writes such power stuff that I am awed by his wisdom and understanding. __________________ :rose Needtogrowup

05-01-2005, 07:28 PM	#49 (permalink)
lrywin Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: California Posts: 10	I don't solely base my self esteem on them, but its REALLY hard when the last 10 men I've met were all LOSERS (online dating services). And those are the ones I actually met with AFTER the phone conversations/emails to avoid any CRAZY folks. Plenty of those. I've begun to feel what's wrong with me? I've had some men in my life that were decent, and I was married for a long time, but where are the decent men? I know there are decent men out there. Even at 45. At the rate of divorce, there has to be some men out there who are divorced and decent. At my age, I'm not interested in anyone who has never been married either.

09-05-2005, 03:24 AM	#50 (permalink)
utopia Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: adelaide, australia Posts: 510	thanks all, and jg for taht post about finding it within. the more im in recvoery i realise that noone can fulfill all my needs and ihave to look at it and accept it, i learnt the hard way but how i had to that my fantasies werent true and how i long for them to come back sometimes, people have tol me that sort of love doesnt exist with the whole swirling skies and birds around us as we kiss and ride off into the sunset. addictions aside, a lot of that comes from culture and media too that once im married or in a marriage like relationship life begins. thanks again. i would love to hear more about how to deal and move away from being a love avoid/addict and to be healthier if theres anything pernell or related stuff. __________________ Lord, be my calm in the storm