I Need Some More Wisdom

[Lorelai]

My AH and I have been living apart for one month now.

I was not under any illusion that he would stop drinking just because I left him. Without realizing it though, I guess I did believe that he might try.

It hurts me that, after 30 years together, he values our relationship so little that he gives it up so easily.

I'm beginning to wonder if he ever felt the way about me that I feel about him. I am beginning to wonder if the only reason he was with me was because I was a convenient codie who complimented his addiction so well.

I don't believe that we will ever be together again. Maybe he sees that in me. Maybe he feels it's useless. I know that, at his stage of addiction, he's not willing to work at anything very hard. I know that beer will probably always be the most important thing in his life.

Still, I wonder how I could have been so wrong. I'm feeling the fingers of low self-esteem creeping in on me again and it's scary. How will I ever know when someone loves me for me and not what I can do for them?

I am at peace with my decision but I need some help in continuing to learn. Help me to understand.
L

[Gabe]

Originally Posted by Lorelai

How will I ever know when someone loves me for me and not what I can do for them?

Because it feels different.
You'll feel cherished, valued and loved for who you are, not what you can do for someone else.
Once you quit being the convenient Codie who compliments addiction, the best part of you comes shining through. And that best part of you is what attracts all the right people into your life.
You weren't wrong to believe in your husband.
He just can't believe in himself.
Hugs,
Gabe

[Ann]

You'll know because they won't ask anything from you that you don't want to give, and they will bring something for you to the relationship. I agree with Gabe...it will just feel right.

You know the red flags now, just pay attention next time you see one. And give your heart time to heal before you give it away again. There is a thread here called "To Everyone Who Is In-Between". I'm at work and can't go looking for it, but it may be on the powerposts at the top. Give it a read. In-Between is an okay place to be.

Hugs
Ann

[Lorelai]

Thanks Gabe & Ann -
I found the in-between post and it helped a lot. Just to know it's normal is great. More patience required on my part - guess I haven't learned that lesson yet.

Of course, I had hoped that my journey was reaching it's end.
I guess I just need to put on my hiking boots and start a different journey.

Some days I think "Why do I have to keep doing this? Why can't I just live a regular life?" and some days I think "Isn't it great that I get to keep doing this?"

Thanks for your help. I guess I get to be a newbie again!
L

[journeygal]

Originally Posted by Lorelai

I was not under any illusion that he would stop drinking just because I left him. Without realizing it though, I guess I did believe that he might try.

It hurts me that, after 30 years together, he values our relationship so little that he gives it up so easily.

I'm beginning to wonder if he ever felt the way about me that I feel about him. I am beginning to wonder if the only reason he was with me was because I was a convenient codie who complimented his addiction so well.

Hi L,

I'm in a similar place. I am at peace with my decision to leave, yet I still harbor some fantasies that my husband will realize what he's lost and will check himself into rehab immediately.

That probably won't happen.

Does that mean everything we shared was a lie? No. Does that mean he never loved me? No. I believe that my husband loves me with all his heart. But it doesn't change the fact that he's sick and his sickness, his addiction is a much larger part of him than his love for me is. If your husband has been drinking for 30 years, then he too suffers from something way bigger than himself and his love for you.

Admitting defeat is not easy. Accepting blame and responsibility is even harder. I believe they will get there, eventually, but they're still waging their battles with the bottle and the substance that just have nothing to do with us or the lives we shared with them.

Try to accept that your husband loves you the best he can and that he values what you had together. My guess is he's suffering from the breakup a lot more than you realize.

Hugs,
JG

[Lorelai]

Thanks JG.

I needed to be reminded of all of that. His methods of dealing with a problem have never been the same as my methods.

He is not him anymore. I know that. It is such a blessing to be able to come here and be reminded of reality.
Thank you all again -
L

[DesertEyes]

Dear Lorelai,

I'm so sorry to hear of the pain you are going thru. My wife of 19 years and I will soon be parted, so I can somewhat identify with what you are feeling.

Somebody at an Al-Anon meeting asked me what I would do if my wife had been in a car accident and been killed? How would I survive then? Well, I had to answer that I would find a way. In a manner of speaking, this "disease" has taken my wife as surely as if she had died in a car accident. I choose to remember all the wonderful times we had together, all the love we shared, all the kind and beautiful things she did for me. I choose to look forward and make a new life for me. Don't yet know how or where or why, I'm just working on today right now :-)

I'm not going to wonder about all the things I could have done. Simply because I really could _not_ have done them. I simply didn't know. I did my best with what I had I had available at the time. Life interfered and stuff happened. Sometimes in life wonderful, gentle, kind people like my wife do get killed in accidents, and the rest of us have to go on. In part because looking forward to a good life honors the memory of what we once had, and in part because there is still much good in life that my HP wants me to experience.

My 91 yr. old adoptive Mom has lost 3 husbands. Each time she picked up and started a new life. Don't you ever even mention that she is a "widower", she'll look you right in the eye and tell you that she is _single_ and has _two_ boyfriends to prove it. Each one of those two guys is over 100 and send her flowers.

Hang in there Lorelai, you're doing good and everybody loves ya :-)

Mike :-)

[smoke gets in my eyes]

((( Lorelai! )))

Try thinking of it this way. Of all the codies in all the world, he chose you. It's a mistake to put people in neat little boxes labelled "addict", "codie", "(etc.)" and ascribe every action to their role . Except for those who have become completely dysfunctional, that is not the whole of us. Just part. It colors our existence of course, but it's not everything.

Now here's a question. Do you believe you have never loved your husband? Because if people in self obsession are incapable of love, then a very strong case can be made that a codie is incapable of love. A lot of what a person obsessed with the behavior of others calls love isn't. It's control, and control is to remake someone into what WE want. It's selfish, not loving. I've read a few posts from codies I thought were that far gone... but not many. There is real love in there too, for almost all.

So if for you, your marriage was not all about making your husband into someone else, but included real value and respect, it's possible (probable?) that the marriage for him was not all about taking advantage.

And by the way, if in splitting up with your husband a wee small voice in the back of your codie brain was whispering "maybe this will fix him"... I'd wager you're in the 98 percentile. After all, we get lambasted with the message- "YOU are enabling." (Sooooo... if I stop enabling THAT will fix him? ) I read your posts, Lorelai. And I know that you launched this separation logically and with clear intent to take care of yourself, not as an experiment in manipulation. But golly... that REAL love that you have? It keeps a gal/guy hoping. At least a little. It is no reflection on you that your husband wasn't inspired to sober up. There is just no predicting how the actions we take will affect our beloved intoxicated. That's why we just have to pick what WE want. I also have trouble accepting that this is a sign that he does not/did not love you. Leaving me out of it- even in the worst part of his using, it was clear to me that Dino loves his parents. Fiercely. He simply couldn't obey love over his demons. Not for a long time. I think it's a needless blow to our egos to try to equate how an active user treats us to a measure of their love and esteem.

Super-sized hugs!
Smoke

[Lorelai]

Thanks so much for the reply, Mike. I'm with you. There was a post once asking if we'd do it again. I would certainly do it again. I have so many wonderful memories and I know what it is to truly love someone. Some people never get to experience that. If I did it over, I wouldn't allow myself to get lost in all of this. But, I believe that what happened in my life was for a reason. To not learn the lessons would be the sad part.
Everybody loves you too. :-)


Ahhh, Smoke.
I really believe that my current soul searching is all about me. One of the things I discovered on this journey is that everything is all about me and I believe I've learned that lesson well.

I don't believe that I left my H thinking that he would change. I really believe that, right now, he's not going to change. He appears to be so far from that light bulb moment that even the shadows aren't hitting him yet.

His lack of action of any sort is not a surprise to me. I am just surprised that it has me going back to the "he doesn't care about me so I must be worthless and unlovable" place.

Will I ever get to the place where I know I am worthwhile and lovable no matter what other people do or don't do? Will I ever measure my worth on by my own standards without needing to see it reflected in people around me?

I don't know if I'll ever reach that place but I know that I will go through my life fighting tooth and nail to reach that goal. I know that is where serenity lies and I am not going to give up until I get there.

You are all wonderful and I am so grateful for SR.
L

[journeygal]

Originally Posted by Lorelai

Will I ever get to the place where I know I am worthwhile and lovable no matter what other people do or don't do? Will I ever measure my worth on by my own standards without needing to see it reflected in people around me?

Yes, you will.

It starts by loving and accepting yourself and setting and achieving personal goals that aren't dependent on anyone else. Accept that you and you alone are responsible for your happiness. Find something to be proud of every day and don't be afraid to pat yourself on the back. And when other people tell you how great and wonderful you are, believe them. Day by day you will start to feel different. Your opinion will start to matter to you. Your feelings will be more important to you than anyone's around you. Your priority will be doing what makes you happy, not someone else, although it's ok to want to do for others b/c it does make us feel good. But we shouldn't do more for anyone else than we are willing to do for ourselves.

It is ok to be selfish in this way, to place our happiness and well-being above everyone else. It doesn't mean we can't care for others. But it's time we treat ourselves with the same love, attention, and respect we want from others. You'll get there, trust me.

Hugs,
JG

[StandingStrong]

Lorelai: As always, I can so relate to your posts!!!!!!!
When AH and I split up, I wanted to SEE that things would be different this time when he gave me his "I'll change" speech. I told him things that he could do to prove himself to me, I took on some of his debts to make it easier for him, I did everything I could to make it possible for him to prove himself to me.
I went through many many days (and still do) questioning myself if I was doing the right thing. I know about those fingers of low self-esteem and the overwhelming feelings of guilt, indecision, heartache, etc.
A part of still believed that he would change this last time. In some ways, he did. But I think I've come to realize that we've just grown apart, the damage has been done, and it's time to just let it go. It's hard and it hurts.
One night a co-worker was asking me about my upcoming divorce. I said something along the same lines as you have about the future and how will I ever know if anyone can truly ever love me. Maybe it's just me! That co-worker gave me a shock. After work, he went home and brought to me some tablets. When I asked what they were, he just said "read them" and that was it. These tablets that my friend gave me were his journals!!!!! And each and everyday for the past year or so he'd written in them - and there was a lot of things about me in those journals!!!! I have no doubt in my mind that this man loves me. He loves me in a way that I never thought anyone would. It was all there for me to see. And then I started thinking about our friendship and how he'd always been there for me, etc. This man had shown me all along and I just couldn't see it. It was a shock I can tell ya!
Do I believe that you'll be loved again? YES! Do I believe that someday you will love another again? YES. And do I believe you will have a better relationship? YES. You are working on your recovery, you want a better life, and I know that you will find it.
By the way, I'm the one that posted that topic about "would you do it again?" that you mentioned earlier. LOL. I know for me, I would do it again. I only wish that I could have done things differently and maybe not for as long. But I also know that I live in the past a little too much and I'm trying really hard to live in the day and the future. I continue to try one day at a time. Even on the days I don't want too - I make myself.
Anyways....just wanted you to know that again, your post speaks to me. I can so relate to you. And I can only hope that things will get better for you and you'll realize that you are worth so much more than you give yourself credit for.
(((((((((((((((lots of hugs to you)))))))))))))))

[Lorelai]

Thanks JG & Standing -
Bottom line, I think - I want some man to tell me that I am beautiful and smart and funny and an amazing woman. In fact, I want a couple thousand men to tell me that.

I'm not dating or looking yet and probably won't for quite a while but I'm afraid that, when I do, I'll pick some needy, helpless man because that's the place that I think I will find that. I have to pick someone even MORE needy than me - it's so much safer.

I want confidence. I want to be able to ask the cutest guy in the place to dance and, if he says no, just walk away saying "His loss."

I think I just need some advice on what to do to work on myself to get there. I've broken the spell my H had on me. I know it's over between us. I don't want to go there again. It's not a choice any more - it just is what it is.

I've never been one to be very confident in my appearance although I know that I'm really not bad looking. I know I'm a lot of fun and have a lot of good qualities. I just can't seem to get that to penetrate into my soul. I want to feel it down to my toes. I keep thinking that I need some proof from somebody else. How do I convince myself without relying on anybody else?

Where's the "I've Been Beaten Down And Need to Build Myself Up Again Anon" ?
Thanks for all your help. This is huge for me and I know I've got to work on it. I'm just not sure how to start.
L

[StandingStrong]

I think I just need some advice on what to do to work on myself to get there.

I've never been one to be very confident in my appearance although I know that I'm really not bad looking. I know I'm a lot of fun and have a lot of good qualities.

I just can't seem to get that to penetrate into my soul. I want to feel it down to my toes. I keep thinking that I need some proof from somebody else. How do I convince myself without relying on anybody else?

You've already started. And most things do take awhile to settle into our souls. You know these things about yourself that are wonderful things - now you just have to really believe them!

And though I am not a guy, I have to tell you - I know you are a beautiful person. Your actions and kind words here at SR prove it!
I also know you are smart - you've proven that as well.
And funny - yes, that too!!!! There is evidence of that humor here at SR as well.
We here at SR see you for how you are Lorelai and we love and care about you just for how and who you are!!!!!!!

[DesertEyes]

Originally Posted by Lorelai

... I want some man to tell me that I am beautiful and smart and funny and an amazing woman.

I have never met you, but I can clearly tell that you have a beautiful heart filled with love and kindness. I know this from the way you reach out to help other people you don't even know. I know you are smart and funny because your intelligence and sense of humor shine through in every post you write. I know you are amazingly brave and strong to be able to endure and overcome everything you have shared. You are definetly an amazing woman.

Originally Posted by Lorelai

... I want a couple thousand men to tell me that....

* lol * Well, I can't help you there, there's only one of me :-) But if you _really_ want a couple thousand I guess you could just take this post and xerox it a couple thousand times ;-)

Mike :-)

[Lorelai]

Mike -
Or maybe I'll just read it a couple of thousand times. You're sweet - thank you.

I'm working on it - seeing a glimmer of hope. As with everything, it all takes time and patience.
Thanks everyone -
L

[hawkgazer]

Originally Posted by Lorelai

I want some man to tell me that I am beautiful and smart and funny and an amazing woman. In fact, I want a couple thousand men to tell me that.
---------------
I have to pick someone even MORE needy than me - it's so much safer.
-----------------
Where's the "I've Been Beaten Down And Need to Build Myself Up Again Anon" ?

I've found that they all say that nice stuff until they get You-know-what!!!

Yes, I do the same thing, pick the needy ones and take very good care of him...
yah, that sounds like the perfect program!!!

in your first post you wrote that it made you so sad that "he values our relationship so little that he gives it up so easily" -- that is EXACTLY how I feel about my husband right now. He's sober, but I asked him to leave because of his abusive behavior. He filed for divorce because he'd rather give up than go to counseling and attempt to change. My friends (those D#%* rational people!!) say this is the best way anyway, the most painless way in the long run, but it still hurts so much. that the kids and I mean less than his bad attitude.
I know right where you're coming from.
I'm also detatching from my best friend right now, the past year and a half has been in and out relapse, very very hard on me and my kids and her kids, and I have made a commitment to myself to cut the strings for her sake. We thought she was dead the other day, and I was blaming myself for having done TOO much, been too soft and not given her the fairness of tough love.
anyway, sorry, I'm rambling.
my prayers are with you.