What just happened there?

[freya]

OK, well, it looks like my partner and I may have just broken up.

I've mentioned elsewhere that things have not been exactly great lately. We are just growing further and further apart in our lives and definitely in our programs.

A major "AH HA" for me was actually way back in January when I got our cell phone bill and saw that, while she didn't have time in December to return calls to our recently sober 23 year-old 2nd cousin (for whom she promised to be there program-wise), or to a wonderful AA man with whom she got sober and who was trying to ask her to chair a meeting, or to get to several holiday events on-time (or sometimes even at all), she had close to 10 hours to spend on the phone with her "virtual friends" (which, I've been told by someone, who works with people who act-out addictively on-line, is probably just a small fraction of total time spent in "virtual reality.")

So, OK, since her last dry drunk was acted out, to a large extent, on-line, that was definitely a red-flag for me. But, truth is, that I have been so involved in my own program and my own life and because I really cannot, to some extent, get my mind around the fact that anyone can be around the rooms for as long as she has been and still choose a life of addictive behavior, isolation and misery, I was kinda just going along waiting to see what was going to happen and when I was going to feel some definite clarity as far as my "needing to do something" went.

And, over the last several months, my "sponsor" has been really on me to detach from her (my partner) and not to in any way be pressuring her into spending time with me, etc....and I've gotten so that I am doing that very successfully....with the result being that we basically do not have a relationship if I am not forcing one into existence. I mean literally, if I am not begging her to be here or telling her that, if she doesn't let me know by noon on Saturday what she's doing, I'm going to make my own plans for the weekend, then we spend 3-5 hours together per week, max.

And since I haven't been doing any of that, we've been spending 3-5 hours per week together, max, for the last few months.

Now, there may well be a planet on which that qualifies as a primary, intimate life-partnership, but it's not a planet I personally live on nor is it one to which I have any desire to move.

And over the last few weeks several things have happened that have really made it very clear to me that I am growing and she is going, and we are basically more like old friends whose lives have grown apart than like partners.

So, OK, I know that and I accept it, and I've been praying about how I need to communicate it to her...and, of course, hoping that a miracle would occur that would allow me to do do that without causing a huge fight and/or getting involved in all kinds of alcoholic head-games and/or trying to take care of her feelings

So, yesterday, she calls and says that she needs to come over to get money tonight (We don't live together, and due to her recent stint of unemployment, I do her banking for her -- so the money she's getting is her own, not mine.) and that maybe she'll go to the (AA) meeting I go to on Wednesdays with me.

So, at 6:25 tonight she calls and is just leaving work on the far side of town, and, of course, she has no money but she needs to go to Starbucks. Meeting starts a 7PM. So, I'm like OK, I'll leave the money in the mailbox for you 'cause I'm leaving here in 10 minutes. (This is one of my "boundary" things with her because she is almost always late and I hate being late, so lately I've been really good about just doing what I need to do to be where I want to be on-time.)

Well, the whole evening did not go very well (aside from the meeting which was very good). The thing that she used to try to start the drama ball rolling was an accusation that I am attracted to one of the woman at the meeting -- which is true. Actually there are a few women there whom I find quite attractive, but, w-h-a-t-e-v-er, I really can't stop feeling what I feel (and, if there's a hot butch around, I'm going to be attracted to hir.....and figuring that out would not exactly be a stretch for anyone who knows me at all!) and it's definitely not like I'm cheating on her, because that's just not something I could/would do.

So, she tries to get something going in the parking lot; I decline to participate.

I get home and she phones. I don't know if I've ever prayed so hard in my friggin' life: "God, please don't let me say anything stupid;" "God, please don't let me get drawn into any head-games;" "God, please don't let me start to argue with her;" "God, please don't let me start to take responsibility for her feelings" and so on and so on and so on.....

And I did good. I was honest and said what I needed to say and didn't take on blame or her feelings (at least not obviously; I do feel like I am taking them on somewhat internally now) and absolutely did not let it go to an argument or fight.

I think she was somewhat shocked and more than a little confused that I didn't play any kind of old, codie part in the conversation.

So, finally, she says: "Well, I'll let you go."

....not sure if she was just talking about the phone or in general.....

And I said, very calmly and softly: "OK....bye."

And then I waited for myself to become a total mess.

But it didn't happen.

I called and spoke to 2 very good program friends (to whom I am not attracted, BTW!) and it seems like the weirdest thing about it all is that I am not a mess.

But, of course, as both friends pointed out, she may very well come back for another round. But this is where it stands right now....and I need to turn it over and say my prayers and go to sleep.

And it feels like I'm actually going to be able to do that.

And that is a miracle of the program!

freya

[Ago]

So why is it so hard for us?

We work so hard for so many years and here we are again?

I get it, I get being the one who makes all the phone calls

bleh

Truthfully?

I see two things,

one: tonight doesn't make it "over", She'll be back (question is wadda gonna do when she comes back?)

two: it's already been over for a long time, you just aint declared the corpse dead yet

relationships are like sobriety or recovery, the people who want it/them work for it, then there's people who don't really want sobriety/recovery/relationships but say they do, but don't really put any effort into it. They make a lot of noise about it, maybe even go to a few meetings, but don't really put any real time or effort into it. They THINK that's what they want, they could give Shakespeare a run for his money on the drama they create, but their actions talk louder then words.

It's like, <shouting> WHAT??? WHAT??? I can't hear your bullshit excuses over how loud your actions are!!!!

If your relationship was sobriety, what would you say? Like if you really could detach. Toss all those F'ing stories out the window, the ones you tell, the ones she tells, and look at what her actions say. How high are YOU on that priority list? well, she needs a banker....umm...what else, someone to get jealous of....where is the someone to spend quality time with? Someone to have deep conversations with? I musta missed those in your post somehow.

What ARE her priorities? Are you willing to make somebody a priority when all you are to them is an option?

I look pretty butch, but godammit I can write my name in the snow when I pee so I'm out

Hang in there Freya, take a step back and just watch, it will work out for the best, you know it will



By the way, Monster Kudos for the program skills you demonstrated, you did a TON of things right

These are just my off the top of my head observations from a quick read through your story, I might be wrong.

[freya]

Originally Posted by Ago

So why is it so hard for us? We work so hard for so many years and here we are again?

This is hard for me for a few reasons 1) Although I am not at this point "in love" with her, I do still love her and I feel very strongly and value very highly her unique preciousness. Unfortunately, she does not see or value any of that, so 2) it's just so friggin' painful to see someone I care about so much abandoning herself the way she does constantly; and 3) It really is ludicrously and ridiculously close to impossible for me to really "get" the fact that she has so many chances and so much support to do otherwise and she just chooses not to. (..and then, of course, there are my "daddy" issues -- but I just wrote about that in the fear thread, so not gonna get into it here.)

And, I think, really, that I am not at all back to where I've been in the past over break-ups....I'm not really 100% sure why, but I think a lot of it has to do with my relationship with HP, which truly, as hideously hokey as this sounds, IS my primary relationship at this point. Can't friggin' believe I'm writing that....I can remember when my kids were little my Mary Kay lady talking to me about the Mary Kay philosophy of God first, Family Second, Career Third...and I would be like "BARF!" -- not to her, of course, but that's pretty much how I felt about it at the time....yeah, well, guess there's a reason their product line is so great!

I mean, when we separated 5 years ago, at which point I'd only been in program ~9 months, I was in a much better place than I had been when my husband left (alternately hating / not believing in god, narcissistically focused only on my problems and my misery, suicidal to the point that I sometimes couldn't remember that my kids were the reason that that was not a good idea!). And right now, I'd say I'm pretty much light-years away from that.

My "sponsor" left me a message late last night re: my message from earlier and she said: "Uh....you sound good....great....So, either you're going way over the deep end or you're really OK...If you're going over the deep end, you can call me back whenever you get this....otherwise, I'm going to trust that you're OK and I'll call you when I get off work tomorrow."

And I am OK.

Originally Posted by Ago

Truthfully?

Isn't that the only way???? Not that I'd expect any less from you!

Originally Posted by Ago

I see two things,

one: tonight doesn't make it "over", She'll be back (question is wadda gonna do when she comes back?)

BINGO -- already happened. Her father's having cancer surgery tomorrow -- which, given her inability to identify, talk about and work through her feelings is probably why this relationship thing is getting a little of her attention right now. So, I just basically said that I thought we needed to wait and discuss this further after that's over......even though I really would like to put it to rest now, the truth is I just really couldn't live with myself long-term if I wasn't able to be there for her through this.

So, yeah, what I'm gonna do is just keep praying and speaking the truth and not getting into a mess with her. Right now, I don't really have a sense that there is any other way "right" for this to be but "over."

Originally Posted by Ago

two: it's already been over for a long time, you just aint declared the corpse dead yet

Yup...actually had that exact same thought on my morning walk a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Ago

relationships are like sobriety or recovery, the people who want it/them work for it, then there's people who don't really want sobriety/recovery/relationships but say they do, but don't really put any effort into it. They make a lot of noise about it, maybe even go to a few meetings, but don't really put any real time or effort into it. They THINK that's what they want, they could give Shakespeare a run for his money on the drama they create, but their actions talk louder then words.

It's like, <shouting> WHAT??? WHAT??? I can't hear your bullshit excuses over how loud your actions are!!!!

If your relationship was sobriety, what would you say? Like if you really could detach. Toss all those F'ing stories out the window, the ones you tell, the ones she tells, and look at what her actions say. How high are YOU on that priority list? well, she needs a banker....umm...what else, someone to get jealous of....where is the someone to spend quality time with? Someone to have deep conversations with? I musta missed those in your post somehow.

What ARE her priorities? Are you willing to make somebody a priority when all you are to them is an option?

Yeah, the priority thing is very clear -- that actually is what that January cell phone thing was about for me. #s 1-99 are her virtual life......me, her birth family, her program and whatever else fight for the 100th spot.

She also needs someone to do her laundry and to, once in awhile, fix her a meal that doesn't come out of a cookie package or a chip bag. And we don't actually have meaningful conversations: She talks on and on at me about how terrible her life is and how miserable she is and how no one she interacts with does anything right, and when I try to ask her, nicely not confrontationally, what she's grateful for or what good happened in her day, she gets really pissed and either hangs-up or sarcastically reminds me that "she didn't drink today," at which point I pretty literally bite my tongue to keep from saying "Well, neither did I, and I get more points because I have to deal with you;" or "25 years without a drink and that's the only good thing you can say about your life? Don't you think that might be an indication that there's a problem with your f*ckin' program?" Instead, I say, "OK, goodnight. I'll talk to you tomorrow."

When I try to talk to her about what's going on for me, especially if it's good stuff related to program and program people, she looks at me like a deer caught in the headlights and gets very uncomfortable. I don't really try very often to talk to her deeply about troublesome stuff because she just enjoys being stuck in the problem way too much and that's not really helpful for me.

So, anyways, if this relationship was something I was doing as part of my recovery work, which, of course, it is, I guess I'd have to say that it's one of those things that I've given my best shot, but that, really just is not going to work for or be helpful to me.

Originally Posted by Ago

I look pretty butch, but godammit I can write my name in the snow when I pee so I'm out

I'm sure you do -- thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by Ago

Hang in there Freya, take a step back and just watch, it will work out for the best, you know it will.

By the way, Monster Kudos for the program skills you demonstrated, you did a TON of things right

These are just my off the top of my head observations from a quick read through your story, I might be wrong.

...and I do feel like it is working out.

Thanks, Andrew, for all of that! You're a sweetie.......even if you do enjoy watching guys with mullets get beaten up by the cops!

freya

[justanothrdrunk]

Sorry to hear about the breakup. Sounds like you're handling things well - good for you!

[freya]

...or maybe not really...actually, it's more like one of the characters has decided to totally forego any plot development and just go back and re-enact a chpater from 5 years ago. UGH!

So, the idea of trying to be there for her as far as her father's surgery goes is, apparently, not a good one. She clearly has decided to use any contact from me as an excuse to act-out. So, yesterday it basically came down to her telling me that my program is really all about making her feel bad and look like a loser compared to me ....O...M...G!!!!!! I could friggin' not make this sh*t up! I told her that I was not going to discuss it with her and hung up....

.....Then, she sends me this e-mail. I only read the first paragraph. And that was all I needed to read to know that there was no good reason to read the rest....So, I didn't. Returned it to her, saying that I had only read one paragraph, that I didn't want to play dysfunctional head-games, and that, if she wanted to communicate with me in any way I needed her to keep it in reality. Then I called some friends and let them know I might be needing their help screening furtue e-mails from her.

The worst thing about it -- or maybe this is actually a good thing for me to have to see???? -- is that it is so crystal clear that she is absolutely not even one tiny little bit healthier than she was 5 years ago.

And that makes me really, really sad.

So, looks like she is working toward getting me to set a "no contact" boundary. UGH! UGH! UGH!

freya

[evmdimples]

Oh gosh Freya, I'm so sorry to hear this... as I read through this thread (crying profusely), I can so relate, it's as though they are my own words. I don't have insightful words of wisdom as the ones already given. All I can share is that as I deal with my own, very difficult stuff these days, as far as the question of who is going to take care of me? I have to trust that my HP will... no matter what I am faced with. This time it comes in the shape of my aging mother. And my brother, bless his heart. Another time it may come in the shape of a friend. Or a SR virtual friend. That trust in HP is what keeps me moving forward in the difficult tasks I am facing. And in you sharing your difficulties, it makes me realize, WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER! And so, we are never alone.

your friend in recovery
e

[freya]

So, this weekend there has been mucho family around for an annual clambake -- which has been good insofar as there has been lots of fun and good stuff going on and bad insofar as I have had to tell my "breakup" story about 50 times.

Anyways, last night I go to this meeting that I usually go to on Saturdays if my partner isn't around and which I've, thus obviously, been going to a lot lately. Well, turns out she somehow showed up after the meeting started and managed --very, very quietly -- to sit right behind me...which, of course, I didn't know until the meeting was over. It was very awkward. She didn't try to talk to me or even look at me -- just spoke to like 2 other people and then left. But it was weird, because she acted so weird and because I know she knows that that's where I am on Saturday evening if I'm not with her and she never goes to that meeting...well, she pretty much never goes to any meeting except for her homegroup.

So, anyways, I talked to a couple of people for quite awhile and by the time I left, there was pretty much no one around. It was cold and wet and dark and I was a little scared going to my car because when we had separated 5 years ago and she had started up with the crazy e-mails and phone calls, a therapist -- who had been our couple's therapist -- really made quite a point of making sure I knew that she thought I might be in physical danger.

So, yeah, last night I remembered that and I felt scared.

I don't feel scared very often, and I really don't like it when I do. And, in this situation, one of the things I like least about it is how it brings home to me that fact that I am really naive -- naive to the point of cluelessness -- about what, why, and how psychologically unwell people act out when they are emotionally triggered. I mean, intellectually, I could write a book about it, but when it comes to real life, it's like I just cannot wrap my mind around it in any kind of effective/helpful/actionable way.

I think to myself: "You should have asked someone to walk you to your car." and then I think: "But that's crazy. Why would she do anything that stupid?" and then, of course, I really can't come up with any "why" that makes any sense to me, so then I try to dismiss my feelings around it.

Anyways, it's just interesting to me that some things are so hard for me to get.

But, there's also a funny side to this story. When I got home, some of the clambakers were here, so I was telling them what had happened....and my mom goes:

"Well, looks like maybe you'll have a stalker....good....if she follows you around long enough, maybe she'll get her *ss to enough meetings to figure out what she ought to be doing!"

HA!...a good laugh for everyone....

freya

[Charmie]

good old mum freya!

[Freedom1990]

Originally Posted by freya

I don't feel scared very often, and I really don't like it when I do. And, in this situation, one of the things I like least about it is how it brings home to me that fact that I am really naive -- naive to the point of cluelessness -- about what, why, and how psychologically unwell people act out when they are emotionally triggered. I mean, intellectually, I could write a book about it, but when it comes to real life, it's like I just cannot wrap my mind around it in any kind of effective/helpful/actionable way.

Oh Freya! I could write a separate book on that!

Seriously, for years and years after I had gone through rehab, and before I got truly serious about recovery from codependency, I got myself into some very uneasy, potentially volatile, and just flat out bad situations because of what you speak of.

My mind just couldn't wrap around it either enough to proect myself from those kind of folks.

I understand you being sad about truly seeing the lack of growth in her life. I've felt that way too about many folks I've known in supposed recovery.

Just be sure to embrace yourself for the growth you have experienced, and take joy in that too, okay?

[freya]

I have a new sponsee, who is actually a double winner, and last night she called. She is having a lot of difficulty in her relationship (bf was in recovery, now not drinking but not in recovery either, so becoming increasingly emotionally unavailable and acting out in lots of weird ways) and is very, very close to the point of realizing that she needs to end it.

This woman's core issues/wounding are so exactly the same as mine that it's not even funny -- "daddy" issues, leading to totally irrational fear of not being taken care of, which she even tries to compensate for/deal with by, amoong other things, marathon watching the exact same kind of stupid action hero movies that I used to watch when triggered in that way. I mean, the only reason she's probably seen the Bourne movies more than I have is because she's still doing this -- I quit before "The Bourne Ultimatum" was released.

It's actually kind of freaky.

So, anyways, last night she calls and is in a really bad place and the entire time she's talking to me I'm thinking "What a friggin' jerk he (her partner) is; doesn't he realize what he's about to loose here???" I mean, really, you'd think he'd have at least enough of a sense of self-preservation to get his act together a bit.

But, no, really he doesn't.....and really she deserves better -- A LOT better --just like I do!

freya

[gowest]

Hi Freya,

I always read your posts because they are so insightful.

I wish you would consider posting this all on the friends and family forum. There are so many people there who (in my humble opinion) could use your E,S & H. So many people struggle with ending relationships and your initial post really shows what happened without anger.

I'm sorry that your relationship is coming to an end.
I am so impressed with the grace and thoughtfulness that you are exhibiting.

It is inspiring.

[PapasFritas]

Most couples I know split up their meetings when they break up. I would not like to have to confront my ex (even my ex sponsor) at a meeting if things had ended badly. Just a thought. Does she go to your Al-Anon meetings?

[freya]

Originally Posted by PapasFritas

Most couples I know split up their meetings when they break up. I would not like to have to confront my ex (even my ex sponsor) at a meeting if things had ended badly. Just a thought. Does she go to your Al-Anon meetings?

Hi, PF!

To address your actual points:

a) As you know very well (I'm assuming here that you know both me and my ex.), I am not in the habit of making my decisions or living my life in accordance with "what most people do." And I'm not planning to start now.

b) And, really, I have absolutely no intention of "confronting" her -- in public or in private, and most certainly not in front of a room full of people in recovery, many of whom would most certainly recognize that behavior for the pathetic drama that it is. I think I am capable of acting like a civil adult even if things are a little awkward.....Actually, I'm pretty sure that I could act like a civil adult even if she were to choose to "confront" me in some way in a public venue....and, in fact, I have, unfortunately, had the opportunity to do so in the past. It's not really something I'm worried about...and she certainly knows that about me......So, if she's worried about confrontation, then that would most likely be her projecting her own behavioral tendencies onto me -- which is something she does frequently. And that would also be her problem, not mine. (Not trying to be a heartless b*tch; just clarifying the facts. This is like Al Anon lesson #1 here!)

b2) I really don't feel like things ended badly...as I said up-thread, the relationship has not been a true, intimate life-partnership for awhile. Acknowledging that reality does not feel bad to me. (Now, I totally realize that it may feel bad to her, and I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but, like I said earlier, I am trying hard not to take on or take responsibility for her feelings. Al Anon lesson #2!)

c) I don't personally own any Al Anon meetings -- the closest thing I might have to "my" Al Anon meeting would be my HG........and, no, she doesn't attend it, unless it's a special occasion and I beg her. But, she could, and I certainly would not have a problem with that (Ask her yourself; this has always been the case with me, and she knows it very well.) -- especially if she were actually to be there to work a program as opposed to just showing up to try to irritate/bother/control/stalk me. And, the honest truth is that she would probably be the one who would be more uncomfortable....just because, as I said before, she tends to be/feel uncomfortable pretty easily.

c2) Also, as I said in the other thread where I actually brought up this issue, the meeting in question is not "her" meeting in any realistic sense of the term -- it is not her HG, it is a meeting she very, very rarely attends and supposedly does not like, and it is an open meeting.

But, you know, as interesting of an intellectual exercise as this is -- and you know I love the little repartee!!!!! -- none of it really matters for a couple of reasons. First, I have been, at this point, over and over this in RL with probably 30 people whose recoveries I respect, and everyone of them has lead it back to the exact same things: 1) This is not about her or her recovery; it's about her jerking me around, and having some measure of control over me, and wanting to try, however ineffectively and/or minimally, to take something away from me; and 2) It's my job to take care of me, not her. (Al Anon lesson #3.)

The second, most important, reason is because, somehow, after I had a couple of really big revelations/shifts in consciousness on Sunday only tangentally related to this, or, more accurately, related to how I felt about how I responded to her and why I "(mis)handled it" the way I did, I've realized over the last few days that I totally don't care about it (the original issue) AT ALL!......It's like I can't even begin to access the energy and the feelings I had about it on Saturday. They just don't exist anymore. It's a bit weird, but I'm guessing it has to do with something an AA friend said to me today when I told her how amazingly the weekend ended up playing out for me...She said: "Wow, it's like you didn't quite take care of yourself the way you wanted to, but HP was really there for you to take care of you and to turn it into a much greater good."

And that's SO amazingly true.....and, in the light of that, what does the frggin' meeting or her friggin' BS matter??????

It just doesn't.

freya