I've set boundaries for my two youngest kids

[least]

and they stomp all over them. I've enforced rules and they 'spit' in my face. I've given up all hope of ever having any authority with them so I'm just ignoring them for the most part and refusing their demands for rides and money and whatever... They don't consider me a 'mother' but I'll no longer be a free taxi, maid, and ATM. If they don't like it they can live with their dad (who is a lot stricter than I am)! **** this **** - I'm just living for myself and my dogs from now on. More peaceful that way...

[Astro]

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time least. But boundaries are useless unless we really do enforce them. If living with their father shakes them up, it could be a good motivator for them to learn some respect.

Now, keep in mind that I'm no authority on this yet. When my kids hit their mid-teens in a couple years I'll be back here begging for help myself

[least]

"enforcement" is the whole problem. I CAN'T enforce the rules unless I stand guard at the doors all night to prevent dk from leaving the house. I can't enforce the rules unless I put a lock on the towel cabinet to keep dk from using ten towels a week. I can't enforce the rules when dk breaks them when my back is turned. I'd have tohire an armed guard to enforce rules in this house. So I'll just put locks on everything and pray nothing bad happens to dk due to her refusal to submit to my authority.

This is a problem without a solution, except just to ignore them and go about my merry way without them. Dk WILL NOT live with her dad, due to his strictness. I would have to literally 'hogtie' her and drag her to his car to get her to go there... I kid you not.

I hope your kids don't do to you what mine have done to me when they become teens... Makes me wish desperately that I'd stopped having kids after the first one...

[Cynay]

Hello and I'm sorry your having such a hard time with the kids, teen are such a struggle.

When my daughter turned 14 I had nothing but hard times with her, I Actully ended up at one point doing what you decribed and drove her to the airport and put her on a and to her fathers, it was the hardest thing I have ever done and after that I accepted a job in another state living in the employers apt so I did not have a home for her to come back to for a year. Sometimes tough love is the only thing left. Today I can look back and say that was the smartest thing I have ever done.

I have to be honest here and say it was just as much my fault if not more that we had so many issues. Not only did I not set the boundries but I never enforced the ones I did set, kids like most people treat us how we have taught them to treat us, I let her get away with WAY too much because it was too hard and too much work to do otherwise. I wish I had found CoDA along time ago.

However today we are doing better, mostly because I work my program, try to keep my side clean. Today I set my boundries and then follow through with it. I say what I mean and follow through, no more idle threats, and I'm finding that the more I respect myself the mor

[least]

Maybe that's one huge part of the problem: the kids have me so beaten down, and they know it, that I just escape into my den/the internet/movies just to get away from them. College kid goes back to school this sunday, and I can't wait, but defiant kid is here for at least one more year... tho the threat of sending her to live with her dad is looming larger on the horizon... he wouldn't like that, as he'd have to deal with her daily and it would cramp his style, but I don't care. If I can't stand her living with me, she only has one other choice, to live with her dad, whom she hates even worse than she hates me... and that's a lot of hate.

I'm just hanging on minute by minute, staying in my room and avoiding them as much as possible. Not doing them any favors as I'm sick of being maid, taxi, and ATM. I don't think there's any real 'solution' as she won't live with her dad, but mostly I'm venting so I won't go insane over it. I have a few xanax a friend gave me, and it helps me keep from losing it and drinking myself into a stupor over all this sh!t.

I just have to take it one minute at a time, cause an hour, a day, is too long...

[Dee74]

S

OK I'm not a parent but I recognise that we need to act on problems, cos they don't go away on their own.

Your coping mechanisms scare me S - there's got to be a better way to deal with this than taking Xanax that a friend gave you...thats not a good road to be going down for an alcoholic, or any kind of addict.

If you're that beaten down you need more meds on top of the ones you're prescribed, and you're hiding in the den all day, I think it's time to stop and take stock.

What are you reasonably hoping for with yr relationship with the kids?
Is it achievable?

What do you have to do to make it happen?
Is that achievable?

There are ways out - Cynay's a case in point - but they'll take work and commitment and it may be a long haul til things get better - you can't go on like this though.

Maybe it is time to call their dad in - at least for DK?

CoDA sounds like a great idea - I googled them - they seem pretty active in OH

just don't end up at a Cleveland Ohio Dogs Advocates meeting

D

[least]

No, I don't think it's achievable, but I'm still in there trying. Dk's dad doesn't want her to live with him, it's too much to put on him, but it's so easy to put it on me and just yell at me and blame me when things go wrong. I'm just about ready to call him and tell him to come get her, they have a vocational school near where he lives, let him be responsible for getting her there. I'm sick of this. It's always MY FAULT. It's NOT my fault. She's just a real brat of a kid with serious emotional problems.

I'm very close to telling him to just TAKE HER and get her off my hands... But I know for a fact he'll give me so much sh!t... He really doesn't want her, and if I forced him to take her I don't know what damage tht might do to her, being passed from parent to parent, and knowing she's not 'wanted'. I'm afraid to move in any direction, and no matter what I do, I'll be blamed for it and never hear the end of it. Dk will hate me, more than she already does, and her dad will hate me, more than he already does... is there anyone out there that doesn't hate me??? If so, I've not heard from them.

I will be finding out info on the vocational school in daddy's area... and then will approach him with my ultimatum. I'm willing to do the 'work' required to get her the help she needs, even if it's just sending her to live with "nazi-daddy"...


Dee, I love you and really value your input... but what the hell would you suggest I do? If I can take a xanax and not feel the desire to "kill" her over her sh!t what's wrong with that?? I've run out of solutions and am just trying to live minute by minute. What would you have me do??? I've tried everything I know and nothing's worked worth a damn. I'm just trying to keep from drinking and/or beating the sh!t out of her worthless hateful ass.

I thought pk was bad when she was this age..... dk makes pk seem 'easy'... and pk wasn't 'easy' by any means... So I'm desperate to just survive this trying time in a decent manner. Her dad is clueless when it comes to dk's problems, so I'm not at all sure that sending her to live with him would be "good" for her. It may be the totally wrong thing to do, I don't know. I just don't know...

[suki44883]

Least

Sending her to live with her dad isn't the end of the world for any of you. As you know, I ended up doing that very thing and although my daughter absolutely hated it for the first month or so, she has learned to adjust because she had to. The first month or six weeks she was there she was calling me constantly crying and practically hysterical over things her dad would say or do. Now, I'm the first to admit that her dad is the worlds biggest idiot, but I told her that she would just have to figure out a way to get along with him because her only other option was a group home somewhere and I wasn't going to be the one to look for one for her. As time passed, the fact that she hated living there so badly was incentive enough for her to decide to get a job and learn to drive. She's been working at Walmart now for about 3 weeks and is learning to drive. She is much happier and has adjusted to life with her dad, even though she still doesn't like it.

I said all that to say this...your daughter obviously doesn't want to live with her dad, but it's not her decision. If she makes life unbearable for you, then you either have to send her to her dad's or continue to hate every day of your life for another year until she's out of school. It doesn't matter if she has to change schools. It doesn't matter if she will be mad and hate you. Sounds like she does that already. You have got to take care of yourself. She is young and she'll adapt. She might hate it, but she'll figure out a way to make it work. Kids can be very resourceful when they have to be.

[Dee74]

You're right - whatever way you go it won't be easy - but you need to do what's best for you - and for DK, S - whatever you think that is.

Again - I'm not a parent - but as a friend who's seen this unfold over a year or more, what you both have right now is not really good for either of you.

D

[suki44883]

Dee is right. My daughter was not going to get better while living with me. I was too much of an enabler. It was a toxic environment for both of us. Forcing her to live with her dad gave her the wings she needed and it also helped me. Now, when we see each other, we genuinely enjoy being together.

[Cynay]

First off... sorry I did not finish my last post... was using my phone and could not edit like I needed too....

OK.... Im not sure how to put this out there.... BUT.... Im going to try.

I'll be blamed for it and never hear the end of it. Dk will hate me, more than she already does, and her dad will hate me, more than he already does... is there anyone out there that doesn't hate me??? If so, I've not heard from them.

Does this bother you at all... cuz it bothers me. When I was sick and tired of being sick and tired... I made changes. Are you stick and tired enough? The changes I had to make were inside of ME.... it was not changing the people around me... especially my daughter. All Im hearing in that paragraph is what you think "other" people are thinking about you....

What about what YOU think about you. You can not control other people, how they think, what they feel. You can only control yourself and be responsible for yourself. Look in your history and see how all this happened...

For me... I did not respect myself, I did not set boundries for myself, I did not act in my best interest and stand up for myself, I let people walk on me, abuse me, treat me disrespectfully..... I taught them it was OK to treat me that way.... What are and have you taught other people? Maybe you need to think about you, take care of you in a way that is safe for you and "respectful" of them. I know how easy it is to get so down and angry that you dont care and your full of anger and hate.... but that could be a direct reaction of being angry with yourself for not taking charge.

My ex use to call me and SCREAM at me.... call me nasty names and tell me how horrible I was all the time.... I would hurt and cry and beat my head against the wall trying to prove to him I was not what he was saying.... guess what.... In recover I discovered that what he thinks of me is none of my business.... and then I discovered the best thing in the whole world.... I could hang up the phone, walk away from the yelling, and from there it dawned on me, I did not even like that guy and had no respect for him.... so what did his opinion mean anyway.... then...... WOW... I discovered that I have tools if Im willing to use them... restraining orders and if not that a firm NO... Im not going to be yelled at.

One of my friends had to put her son in a home for wayward kids.... she could not take it and she realized that she was doing more damage then good trying to put up with, ignore what was happening.

Do you honestly think for one moment that child does not know what she is doing? I had to figure that out the hard way, I also had to stop expecting other people to change so I could be happy..... They wont change, and some of them are just as mean as always.....

Today Im happy though, today after 5 years of some really hard times with my daughter she and I have a great relationship.... You may be closer to a drink then you think... instead of using other peoples drugs and isolating and ignoring.... maybe go get some help. Its out there if you just reach for it.

[least]

My neighbor, who teaches at dk's vocational school, gave me the name of a vocational school near her dad's neighborhood. I'll call them tomorrow and be ready to tell him HE'S TAKING HER, NO MATTER WHAT. Let HIM establish the boundaries and enforce them...

[suki44883]

You go girl!! It'll shock the sh*t out of them! LOL!

Like I said to you once before, there's a good chance she won't act the way she does now once she's at her dad's because he probably won't put up with it. She might try, but I doubt she'll get away with it. She's learned how to run all over you, but with him, she'll be a bit wary not knowing how he'll react. At least, that's how it was with my daughter. She just needs to be forced out of her comfort zone.

I'm so proud of you, least!!

[Cynay]

And what other thoughts do you have about establishing boundries.... have you considered he might say no?

If he does not want that responsibility ( you honestly can not force him) then what is your next course of action? What else are you doing for yourself ??

[least]

I was thinking of 'shaming' him into taking her, as he's always insinuating how bad a mother I am... so let him be a 'better dad'... I'd not considered that tho, and now am wondering how to let him know HE'S IN CHARGE of her, no matter the bite it takes out of his daily routine...

[suki44883]

Well, you know him better than any of us; however, I've always found that honesty is the best policy. Can the two of you talk in a civil way with each other? Is he concerned about his daughter's welfare? If so, then maybe you could just honestly explain to him how bad things are for both of you at this point and that the current situation is just not healthy for either of you. If he's any kind of father at all, he will probably understand and be willing to help her, even if it means helping you at the same time. In order for this to work, the two of you ideally should be a united front. She won't be able to manipulate either of you that way. Hang in there, Least! You can do this, and you deserve to have a peaceful home life.

[Dee74]

Just be honest I think least - you'd think DKs best interests would be better served if he took her for her last school year.

I think Cynay has a point tho -even if her dad does take DK, the problems not fixed just removed.

I really think some coDA could be good for you (heck it'd be good for me LOL) so I'm pleased you're looking into it!

D

[least]

Quite frankly, after all these years as "disneyland daddy" he WILL step up to the plate and "play" daddy, no matter how much it may inconvenience him. I will not ASK him, I will TELL him how it is to be, and if he has any problems, we WILL meet in court, where he can give his reasons why he isn't willing to take over as parent from someone so incompetent (me). There will be no asking, it will just happen, as I've tolerated too much of his sh!t over the last ten years... and he knows it...

I know too well how "daddy" thinks and behaves and it will be simple to just TELL HIM he's taking over her raising for her last school year. She won't like it either, but too damn bad for both of them. There IS no other choice now. Either living with her dad or living at the "detention" home for wayward kids...

I've been told, long ago, not to give kids a choice when they don't really have a choice... this applies very well to that advice...

[suki44883]

Like I said...you know him better than any of us. If you think that will work, then go for it. The point is that your daughter realizes that you are serious about this and she WILL be leaving your home. I know I felt like poop on the bottom of someone's shoe when I had to do it, but then, I kept reminding myself that it was the only way either of us could get better. My daughter begged me not to make her go. She tried everything in the book...all the usual promises and everything. I had to hold fast. You have to be prepared to do that, too. But, I know you can do it. Keep that resolve, Least!

[Cynay]

I was thinking of 'shaming' him into taking her

You know..... what I feel the most from your posts.... is that not only are you at whit end.... but that YOU need help.

This line says it all... that is a very controlling statement. I know your hurt and angry... and oviously you think very little of your ex.... but what Im more concerned about is that you get the help you need. I hear so much hurt, anger, pain and such a "forced" solution to the issues.....

Could you take a step back and really think about the relationship you "want" to have with your daughter..... think about the deep anger you seem to have with your ex.... maybe consider that you might want to work more on your recovery then making your

"disneyland daddy"

pay the price and own up....

Least...... Im more concerned for you. You sound angry, hurt and at wits end. Im only going to say this once more and then I will stop... but what I wish for you is that you seek help to get healthy and whole.....

[Rowan]

Whatever the outcome, I hope it's one that brings both you and your daughter a sense of peace. We all have a need to be loved and accepted. I haven't seen my daughter in almost 6 years - she is nearly 17, and unwilling to have me in her life though I haven't given up on her just yet. I let her live with her Dad in order to improve my life and I'll never be able to undo that. She felt, I'm sure, that I was rejecting and abandoning her.

I really do understand the necessity to take such drastic steps as to send a child away, but because of my own situation, it's difficult to accept. My daughter who does live with me is nearly 14 and is a joy - and I make sure she knows that, every day. She leaves stuff lying around, sure, and doesn't help out around too often, but my acceptance of her is not based on what she does or does not do around here. I love her so much.

[least]

Me and ex have been separated for 11 years now. He's been controlling me for most of those years. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask him, make him step and do the hard work involved in raising dk. Yes, I am hurt and angry and all kinds of negative feelings. I see a counselor once a week and it helps, but everything falls apart once I'm back home. I am thinking of dk's own good, but also thinking of my own sanity. After living with her since she moved back home (from a private foster home) this past spring it's been hell every damn day. I can't live this way, and as Dee says, depending on xanax sometimes isn't the answer.

I am calling the vocational school in dad's area today to find out about transfering her there. I've done the "hard work" in raising her, now it's time for dad to do some hard work. Maybe then he'll understand it's not as easy as the "advice" he loves to give me. This situation is not healthy for either of us and it has to change. Living with her dad would be such a drastic change it would have to impact her ideas on her place in the world... and he won't be bullied by her like I've been.

Cynay, I appreciate your concerns and believe me, I'm addressing them. But right now I need for dk to live elsewhere. I'm sick of the fighting and demanding and accusations and all her other horrible behaviors and attitudes. Her dad claims to love her and want the best for her, well let him do the hard daily work in "doing the best for her". He'll have to learn that paying child support isn't parenting, it's just financial support.

I didn't sleep well over this last night. Went to be crying and woke up depressed. I know my limits and I've reached them. I can't spend all my days and nights crying over this mess.

"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself." That's what I'm trying to do here: stop being a victim and defining my own life, with a little peace in it too...

[least]

Well I've lobbed the ball into his side of the court: I emailed him about her living with him for the rest of the school year. Now I'm just waiting for an angry phone call or email from him...

[worthyoflove]

Have you ever read the book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teens? It helps to see the situation more clearly.

[least]

Would this be a book I should read, or should my "highly ineffective" teen read it?