Desire to have children and the alcoholic

[SS234]

As selfishness seems to be a common theme in many of these threads regarding characteristics of alcoholics, can recovering alcoholics become good parents?

I was seeing a recovering alcoholic for 1.5 years who had 15 years of sobriety. He was about to turn 40 - and most of you now how that can feel - and he would mention wanting to have children.

At the same time though, he was telling me that he was going through a selfish phase and could not "give". Meaning he did now want an exclusive relationship.

I'm having a hard time letting him go but have to! Just thought I saw potential there and a desire from him to want a "normal" life.

With the right person he may not be so selfish? He told me a few weeks ago that he met someone - she happened to be away that weekend and he said I could meet up with him - I said no which i'm proud of. Sad though at his nerve to basically end things with me by telling me he met someone yet able to ask me to meet him (basically use me). After I knew him for so long he seemed to completely disrespect me.

Is he capable of respecting people - this "new person"?? After 15 years of sobriety? I guess there are "normal" people out there who act like this which may not make this an "alcoholic" issue.

[Bernadette]

Hey SS234,
For those of us who have lived with active alcoholics we learn to tune out what they say and only "listen" to what they do. Actions and behaviors not talk. It's a useful skill in all relationships actually!

An alcoholic or recovered alcoholic is still who they are. So you're right to realize his issues are not just "alcoholic" issues. So in your mind, take away the years of booze, and even the years of recovery and just see him for who he is to you - I would say his actions speak pretty clearly that he would like to string you along a little- he has another gal but she's away so why don't you come over??? That's pretty obvious!

Don't fret about whether he will be different with a different woman. That's a total waste of energy. Who cares!~ You're assuming the other woman is just like you, has the same needs as you etc. Maybe she doesn't need to feel "respected" like you do, maybe she needs to be with someone who is selfish and unavailable to her. See? It's absolutely fruitless to imagine that his relationship with her is like yours but "better." Impossible. 2 people bring 2 unique sets of needs, attitudes, behaviors to a relationship. So let it be.

Put down the magnifying glass and look in the mirror! You sound so sweet - do you know what you really want in a relationship? You sure? Don't waste time and heartache on someone who is unavailable for those things!! And remember: Actions & Behavior rule, not Words!

Peace,
B.

[bigredme]

Getting and staying sober and being a selfish jackass are not mutually exclusive. You can still be a jerk and be sober. Time to look for someone to adore you. Better yet go about your life doing things that make you happy (like being a kind and giving person) and the right person might just show up. Probably won't find Mr. Right if you are wasting your energy on Mr. Wrong.

[SS234]

Thanks Bernadette and bigredme - your replies were very clear and shed a lot of new light.

I especially like the quote below from Bernadette pasted below. It's been only a few weeks so I keep thinking about him treating this "new woman" so much better and am trying to deal with that part now. Can a "good" person really string someone along for so long and then be completely different with someone else? I've never strung anyone along - just don't find that natural - I either like someone or not.

"Don't fret about whether he will be different with a different woman. That's a total waste of energy. Who cares!~ You're assuming the other woman is just like you, has the same needs as you etc. Maybe she doesn't need to feel "respected" like you do, maybe she needs to be with someone who is selfish and unavailable to her. See? It's absolutely fruitless to imagine that his relationship with her is like yours but "better." Impossible. 2 people bring 2 unique sets of needs, attitudes, behaviors to a relationship. So let it be."

[atalose]

The key word you used was POTENTIAL – you saw potential there and a desire from him to want a “normal” life.

You fell in love with his potential, not who he really was. You desired him to want a normal life (what you perceive as normal) may not be what he perceives as normal. I’m sure to him he is living as normal a life as he knows how.

I think you are smart, wise and made a very good decision for yourself to not accept his thoughtless invitation.

Remember, when you fall in love with someone’s potential you are setting yourself up for hurt and pain. You need to be able to accept someone for exactly who they are, not who you think they can be, in order to have a healthy relationship.

[Astro]

Originally Posted by SS234

At the same time though, he was telling me that he was going through a selfish phase and could not "give". Meaning he did now want an exclusive relationship.

Maybe a little commitmentphobia? Definitely a red flag. There's a great book called "He's Scared, She's Scared" you might want to check out. I just finished it, it was a definite eye-opener to some of my behavior as well as the potential partners I'd had experience with.

But to answer your question I'll give you my thoughts as an alcoholic. When I met my now ex in '93 we both had good careers and wanted children. I was an "alcoholic in intensive training", and I guess she was a good codie and enabler. So we had two kids right away and for quite awhile we lived in dysfunctional bliss. We often talked about how we'd be together "forever", but when the disease kicked in hard that turned into a "maybe" for her.

As my alcoholism progressed I ceased to be the husband and father she married, she had an affair and that killed my dream of having a faithful wife and honest mother to our children. It's sad and pretty amazing how addictions of all types can tear families apart when they looked so perfect from the outside.

As a single father in recovery I feel that I'm a very good parent and I do my best to be a good example to my children. I also have a great relationship with a woman who works her own program of recovery, I'm definitely capable of being respectful and giving towards her, my children, friends, family, etc. That's just part of practicing the 12 Steps. But those relationships take constant work, I keep my life focused on my recovery programs in AA and CoDA and do plenty of service work to help with my humility.

I'm not the same man my ex married in '93, and shortly before we were divorced she told me that she didn't want to be married to anyone in recovery, she wanted someone she could drink with. She ended up marrying the guy she had the affair with, today they can drink together happily. The disease just keeps moving on without some form of recovery.

Sorry for rambling, hope some of that made sense.

[loner1968]

Wow! I went through this too except the woman my X hooked up with already has a child.
He decided that he wanted someone he could drink with and he also decided he wanted a child! He said "A kid will fix me" I almost threw up! He also told me that he was "going through selfish phase...always was as far as i remember. Then he said he needed to find out who he was but was hooked up with her already!!

I too went through the whole "why does he treat her so well and go places with her "and bla bla...It almost drove me insane...really! Well after spending so much time here and getting advice from people I came to realize that their "perfect" relationship is actually a sick one.

I sometimes think about the little girl that is stuck in the middle. I know what she is going through. I think it was the worst thing that woman could do... puttting her child in that situation. It still bothers me sometimes. But its none of my business.

I guess maybe when someone's brain is pickled they don't really think things through rationally. Maybe other people also think that a "kid" can fix them. I don't know.

As far as him treating her so well and stringing you along...it seems to be par for the course in situations like this. He probably doesn't even care about her. Its more about being able to do whatever he wants when he wants and that kind of behavior doesn't just go away when someone stops using.

Its good that your RA is sober now but it seems that he may just be a selfish person. Please dont get strung along forever like I did. I wish I had found this site a long long time ago. It would have saved me alot of heartache. I wish you well and try not to take it all to heart. Like others here have said "listen" to actions not words.

I'm sorry you are going through this and i do know what it's like. Just keep coming here and posting and reading. I promise you it WILL help!!! I never thought I would see the day when i stopped wanting to shake them both and tell them how stupid they were being but now I just try really hard to think of what I need to do to be well.

I hope this helps you.

[SS234]

Originally Posted by loner1968

As far as him treating her so well and stringing you along...it seems to be par for the course in situations like this. He probably doesn't even care about her. Its more about being able to do whatever he wants when he wants and that kind of behavior doesn't just go away when someone stops using.

Thanks for the replies on this. I guess I need to accept it at some point. He was married before for 2 years, has been divorced for about 3. He said the reason was that they started living like roommates. Maybe he does just want to do what he wants when he wants.

It's hard for me to believe that he can never care about someone though . . . .

[loner1968]

Originally Posted by SS234

It's hard for me to believe that he can never care about someone though . . . .

I understand this and your situation is different that mine in that your RA is just that...in recovery..so I can't really say for sure but I do know that I still have a slight problem with it. It's impossible to figure out.

Maybe if you just set boundries...which is something I did half heartedly in the beginning..because I didn't realize that everything that came out of his mouth was lie..."I love you" "she's Just a friend" "I can talk to her about anything" She is amazing" I want time to see if I miss you" So confusing. I now know that he was keeping me around in case it didn't work out with her. Of course he said this was the dumbest thing I had ever said.

When I got "smarter" I told him I thought it was wrong for him to be living with someone else, telling her he loved her and still wanting to talk to me...I have not talked to him since. But he sure tried to contact me...I just quit answering his calls. I had to stand strong though and it was hard. Maybe since your A is in recovery his brain works differently that someone who is active and you may be able to set boundries that actually mean something to him. And you will probably have to go No CONTACT.

Another poster above mentioned commitment-phobia...could this be possible? I wonder what his reason for getting divorced was before. two years is not a long time to be married in the grand scheme of things...I don't think that people NEVER care about others. I just think some people get scared or confused in their own life and if we are there we get the brunt of that. And In my experience...it's usually the ones closest to them that gets hurt the most. I think my x did everything he could to make me hate him...he told me it would be easier if I hated him!

I hope you find some peace over this. Please hang around here and ask questions. I know its hard and confusing but at least you are aware of the fact that he is being disrespectful. Looks like your eyes are open!