My partner / ex is on self destruct. I can't make him seek help can I?

[SugarLily]

I'm thinking I already know the answer to the above but I just I don't know. I don't want to give up on someone who is an amazing human being when sober - but completely changes when he is drunk.

I guess I need to give a bit of background. We'd been together for 5 years. About 2 years in we bought our own home and he started to work in the labouring field, I don't want to give too many specifics but the kind of job in Engand where all the men pop to the pub for a "pint" after. Only he cannot stop at one pint. Not a chance, I've found him in terrible states, I've found him asleep in the garden, I've discovered he once fell in a lake and had to be pulled out. Furious rows would errupt, financial problems kicked in and the pub was his escape, I know he felt a failure for the problems of bills and having no money so his miraculous answer would be to hide at the pub. This just sank us further into trouble. I'd sit alone at night crying, begging him to come home.

This is the part where I am going to be told for a fact to leave. When he drinks - he's aggressive - not to me I hasten to add but he will take his aggression out on doors, objects etc... I left many a time. I was so strong - I told everyone I knew how things had collapsed only to find myself really feeling sorry for him. I am a very caring person - I don't want him to throw his life away. I know I can move on but I worry for him. His job will be in danger if he continues his drinking, all I want- all I want is for us to be a family.

When he's sober - he's so full of remorse, he's a wonderful guy - loves kids and animals. When he's drunk though - its Jeckyl & Hyde, he is the wrst person, full of hate and anger.

Give it to me straight please - am I being a fool?

[SugarLily]

I see a few people have read my post but not replied, I have to go to sleep now.

I really would appreciate some help, even if its to say "wake up he will never change"

I was reading through a couple of the other posts here and read that posters admitted they were affecting the happiness in those close to them. I'm still young and can move on with my life as I've been hurt too many times.

I've read here that there are partners that stick with their partner, why? Was it to try to change them. Or does it take me leaving for good to wake him the hell up?

I know his parents worry sick about him, its affecting his fathers health.

I strongly don't believe he is a bad man, he has his demons. Can I help or am I looking through life with rose tinted glasses and the truth is that no one ever changes?

[nandm]

I can completely relate to the Dr Jekyll and You Better Run and Hyde personality of alcoholism. It was me in the last 5 years of my drinking. I never knew who I would be and I am sure if I had continued drinking it only would have gotten worse.

I can honestly say though that there is no power that could have convinced me to stop drinking until I was able to accept the concept that the disease was not only killing me but everyone who cared about me as well. Once I grasped that concept I started getting serious about stopping drinking. Unfortunately, quitting without the help of a recovery program was not something I was able to do with any long term results. I will have 7 years sober on the 13th of next month, thanks to finding the program of AA.

I am concerned about the part of your post where you state he is violent when drunk although with inatimate objects right now. What worries me about this is that usually people with enough anger in them to be destructive to objects eventually progress to taking their anger out on people and animals if they do not find a way to deal with their anger. An example of this happened in my city this past year. An alcoholic retired from the fire department. Was divorced and living with his mother. Had tried several times to stop drinking. I had even run into him in meetings he seemed nice enough then. One morning after a blackout he woke up next to the dead body of his 93 year old mother that he had strangled to death while in a drunken blackout. We can not predict what an alcoholic will do when in a blackout.

My thoughts are I would consider finding an ALANON meeting (they help peolpe who are in relationships with alcoholics learn how to deal with what is going on within their relationship). This group has helped many and continues to do so. As I have not lived with an active alcoholic since I found sobriety I have no experience to share with you there but there will be someone along who may be able to share their experience soon. You might also consider posting in our friends and family of alcoholics forum as there are many people there who have faced or are currently facing similiar situations as yours. Here is a link to that area.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ly-alcoholics/

Welcome to SR. It is great to have you here.

[David 1]

There is no question that only he can make the decision to not take that drink. "Sticking by" can sometimes be the worst thing due to enabling/codependence issues, but I do think it is time for you to tell him to get help (AA, treatment) or he risks losing you!

I really hate to give that kind of advice, but I worry about the anger and hate comments.

Think about it - I am sure others here will offer their wise advice too.

As alcoholics, most times we have to hit bottom before we are ready to accept recovery. It does not appear he has done that yet.

Dave

[SugarLily]

Thank you so much. I'm sorry I hadn't noticed that there was a friends and family section here, thank you for pointing that out to me.

Yes the aggression worrries me, I guess you could say that this is a domestic violence issue aswell as an alcohol related problem.

The story of the man you know who killed his own mother is horrific, it helps to open my eyes to that possibility. Whilst he hasn't been violent with me - his rages scare me and I fully understand that this is wrong and I should not have to live with that.

I just I don't know, I am at the point now that I want to sell our house and leave. I know I can have a happier life, but the carer in me just worries too much. I'm close with his family, I would hate to look back in a few years and realise he has thrown his entire life away.

I guess me caring may actually be enabling. I just needed to ramble on. I'll try and resume this in the correct part of the forum, though tomorrow as I am far too sleepy now. Your post was very helpful and I thank you for the time to reply. I will also look into ALANON, thank you again.

[lovingseren]

I really feel for you, you love this man, and he doesn't know how to love himself.

You cannot fix him, only he can come to the realisation that he needs help, until then he will continue what he is doing.

You might want to write him a letter, using much of what you have said in this thread, and you should give him to him when he is stone cold sober.

I have learned that I cannot, and will not "love someone to death", and that I cannot fix another, he/she is responsible for self.

I can you see you love him so much, he needs to get help, and you need to set some boundaries my dear.

I hope this helps in some way.

Seren

[SugarLily]

Originally Posted by David 1

There is no question that only he can make the decision to not take that drink. "Sticking by" can sometimes be the worst thing due to enabling/codependence issues, but I do think it is time for you to tell him to get help (AA, treatment) or he risks losing you!

I really hate to give that kind of advice, but I worry about the anger and hate comments.

Think about it - I am sure others here will offer their wise advice too.

As alcoholics, most times we have to hit bottom before we are ready to accept recovery. It does not appear he has done that yet.

Dave

Thank you also David, spooky - you share his name.

And I worry also about the anger, I'm sure others may read that and think "you silly silly woman - run and don't look back". Though the hard thing is, I know other sides to him, I know a different person before he became hooked.

I have invested time and love in this relationship and I guess my dignity is a part of me trying so very very hard. I spent all day yesterday crying over this all, I am at the point to give up. I feel I'm wasting my life.

[1cor13]

Untreated Alcoholism gets worst never better, I'm sorry for whats happening in your life and in his. You and yours will be in my prayers.

[Astro]

Welcome once again to SR, SugarLily.

I can't add much of anything useful to what nandm shared, and I also recommend you post in the Friends & Family Of Alcoholics forum. The love and support many people receive there is overwhelming!

I read posts that are similar to yours pretty often, and every time it's like having a mental slide show of my past replayed before my eyes. I've been married twice and thought I was a great husband, and also thought I was a wonderful father to the two children my second wife and I had together. But I'm fully aware of what it's like to be Mr. Hyde, I was that person for 27 years. Wife #1 ran after 2 years, she found her own recovery program and is doing wonderfully. Wife #2 held out for 11 years, and while she has her own issues to deal with I'm grateful that God protected her and our children. All along I thought I was functioning perfectly, and being a warm and loving husband and father. It's amazing and also pathetic how sick my thinking was.
And yeah, I used to punch holes in the walls and slam doors. Raising my hand to my ex was next, I just hadn't turned that corner yet.

Every alcoholic I know has had to reach their own bottom, we can't be forced into recovery. I had no intention of quitting drinking until I gave away my marriage, home, fatherhood, pets, etc. and knew that the next step was death or prison. Thankfully, I made the decision to turn to AA for help.

I'd also recommend trying an Al-Anon meeting. You can't force him to stay sober, but you can certainly help yourself by meeting people who share similar experiences.

Scott

[SugarLily]

Lovingseren: I need to use this as my mantra "You cannot fix him, only he can come to the realisation that he needs help, until then he will continue what he is doing.
"

Thank you. My father told me something similar that "he either won't or can't get help"

I'm going to go to bed and think your posts over. Thank you so much - I may have been a bit impatient in my 2nd post but I want to say thank you so much to all that replied.

[SugarLily]

Quick reply to Astro - thank you also. It really is a great healp to try and get an insight into what on earth is he thinking, does he not realise what he is gambling with.

I do think I'm going to be stupid to stay, but I also know I will not stop thinking about him. If I do bite the bullet, I want to atleast know that I have tried to hlp, try and make him open his eyes to what he is doing, not to me but also his family and of course - hello - his health.

A quick question Astro - sorry but you had said that you also hit walls, I've always wondered - was this so your anger was put to anything other than your ex? Thats what scares me, is he just venting his anger or is he using that wall because if it were not the wall it would be me?

You know - I think my mind is made up. After each row or blow out - I am angry, I am stubborn, I'm all "forget him".

I just can't help caring. If that makes me stupid I guess I will have to admit it.

Thank you all again, so very very much.

and yes - I will migrate to the correct section tomorrow. Good night - I wish you all well.

[Astro]

Yes, I was taking my anger out on something inanimate because I knew if I didn't I'd be hitting the person I was angry with. Just being honest, and that's just sharing my experience. His reasons might not be the same.

[SugarLily]

Well a bit of an update, after not hearing from him since Saturday morning, getting updates from his family that they fear he is "messed up" he's contacted me, I'm at work and I'm already crying but no one has noticed yet, so I'm gonna walk out after posting for fresh air.

He says he isn't good - he's been in bed for two days and not been in work. He can't face it. I said he needs to stop drinking and that I am there if he needs help, but there is no point if he's not willing. He says he has stopped. I advised him that stopping is not not having a drink for two days - it needs to be a full stop.

I just left it as I am here if he needs help but I'm not wasting my life if he wants to hole himself up in a pub.

Am I being helpful or making it worse? Maybe I shouldn't be willing to listen so early on...

[barb dwyer]

Hi Sugar Lily ....

I'm Barb.
I've fallen off both sides of this fence.
Been run over by both north and south bound trains on this track.

The only answer I have for you is that there *is* no easy answer.
Either way.
For him to drink the way you're describing,
and to stop cold turkey can be fatal without medical supervision.
Period.
At the same time -
For him to drink the way you're describing
and to stop cold turkey
is purt near impossible for any sake other than his being thrown in jail
so the chances are practically nonexistant he's going to.

Do I sound a tad bitter?

I'm not bitter.
I've been there.
I've lived it.

I had to lose everything to stop.

And it wasn't until I'd lost everything
that I got myself the help that *I* needed
in order to gain the self worth necessary
for me at long last to finally say you know,
I just cannot DO this any more.

Sister, you have some serious serious decisions to make.

I recommend people around you, advising you who have also had to make them.
Not people who want you to do what they did.
People who know what you need to do to be ABLE to choose what is best for YOU.

That ... is alanon.

I don't know another answer.

I don't know about your signifigant other.

He ..isn't asking for help.
Only you are.

Prayers for you.

I hope you'll keep posting and let us know how you are doing.
and I hope you'll contact someone in your area.
Today.
LIke - before your shift is over.
You already knew this was going to be your answer.
I am sad for you - your world is about to change.
but I am also glad for you - because your world is about to change.

If I can help you at all - I hope you'll feel free to ask me.

*prayers*

[Signal30]

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, or should I say a progressively destructive disease.

The progression of violence is likely, and the violence from him can be turned on you. There is absolutely NO excuse for domestic violence!!! Alcoholic or not, the violent action on a spouse is wrong, and police should be called immediately if he hits or threatens to hit you.

Prayer, Al anon, and the UK version of Women Helping Women I recommend. You cannot make him quit, that is his choice. And with his potential violence towards you, I personally will not recommend you talk to him about it. Just because he's "Dr Jekyll" when he's sober, does not mean he won't take it out on you later when he's intoxicated as "Mr. Hyde" if you were to talk to him about his drinking.


I must press my point on being that your personal safety must come first!


The alcoholic who is not in recovery is a very sick person. He/she is mentally, physically, and spiritually sick. There is a solution but he must have the willingness.

If he chooses to do nothing, the best way to love him, and to potentially save his life is by letting him go.


Tom

[SugarLily]

Thank you Barb - you don't sound bitter at all, I need to hear honest responses. And Tom, yes I do need to be aware of my personal safety - I'm not stupid enough to believe that just because he has only vented against a door that it will never progress.

When we spoke today, I said that he needs help. He asked in what way and I advised a Dr. He asked why he need a Dr - I said because his behaviour is destroying the relationships of all that are involved.

He says he can do it himself. I reminded him that he's said this beforehand and it didn't work for a period longer than a month.

He said that he cannot cope with feeling this way ever again, he realises its the drink.

Doesn't sound too convincing does it? You are all right, I need to get the number for Al-Anon.

And again - Tom - I am prepared to do the last sentence in your post - its gotten to that point now.

Thank you again for the advice.

[Paulos]

Hmm.. I think only if he's a threat to himself would someone force help on him... he wouldn't be too glad about it though, I've heard of the laws... maybe he should seek rehab for help. So he binges eh, but when he's sober he's perfect? That's so unlike me, I feel worse when I'm sober *in intelligence matters and understanding* compared to when I was drunk.

[SugarLily]

We have huge financial problems currently, he drinks to forget or avoid responsibility, I'm at the end of my tether. He goes to the pub after work to escape. I consider it lucky if he arrives home before 9. I've had enough. The rows, the temper, its all the drink - but then they say drink brings out facets of your personality that are already there.

He can't drink - he says he knows that now. But I don't know, I started posting with wishful thinking but the more I read here the more the fog is lifting from my head.

[Tazman53]

Sugarlily the best thing you can do for him is absolutely NOTHING!!!! Except if he ask you to give him a ride to detox or rehab.

Sugarlily I have been where he is at right now and what saved me was my wife telling me that I was on my own, she was no longer going to help me with ANYTHING!!! She was leaving with the kids because she did not want them to watch me drink myself to death. BTW I knew she was not threatening me, she was in the process of doing it!

Sugarlily you need to look out for your self, get into Ala-non or Women Helping Women, these are folks who know what you are going through, they have been there and done that.

[SugarLily]

He's asked if he can meet today when I finish work. I said that he's only welcome if he can appreciate that we have hit rock bottom and that he will be in for a huge discussion. Not just a "don't do it again" followed by a "sorry".

I just don't know what to do.

I was thinking of telling him that I was that worried that I went to the internet for advise, there are a few stories that really hit home here for me. Especially from the other point of view.

Tazman - I really like your advise though, maybe I should tell him not to bother. I don't want him reaching out to me because I am the only one that will bother with him.

[Tazman53]

Sugarlily do what you need to do, I have shared what worked for me and that was being left to face my alcoholism alone! When I was drinking if someone gave me an inch I was taking a mile!

Keep in touch and let us know how things go.

[CarolD]

I left my husband when violence came into our home.
I refuse to live in fear.

I suggest you check out your local resources
by talking to a domestic violence center
and then making a plan to escape.

Be prepared by knowing what to do...just in case.

Blessings

[Freedom1990]

I have to echo the sentiment of you finding Alanon and getting help for yourself.

I have been on both sides of the fence, both in being married to an abusive alcoholic, and being alcoholic myself.

In order to protect my sanity, recovery, and be safe, I had to walk away.

However, I wished I would have worked on healing myself from the effects of his alcoholism sooner because I continued to make one bad choice after another when it came to men.

The best help you can be to him is to help yourself (((hugs)))

[lovingseren]

Lily,
please listen to Tazman, he is a wise man, and he has so much experience, listen to Carol, Barb and Signal Tom and Freedom.

The best thing you can do for you man is not to enable his behaviours in any way.

You need to be strong for you right now, find support as the others have suggested.

Seren

[SugarLily]

I realise this thread is not in the correct friends and family of alcoholics, I'm sorry I keep posting here but I am getting some wonderful advice. Is it possible for it to be moved over there? No biggie for me if not - I just don't want to be annoying by being in the wrong section.

Perhaps against my better judgment, I spoke with him yesterday. He looks terrible (or is that manipulation?). He's been off work the whole of this week so far, he says he feels awful, I read a bit here about, oh whats the word, come down, no... um withdrawal is that it? He feels ill.

We had a long talk, I'm unsure of what to do. I told him that I was at a loss of what to do so found a website forum with help and advice, I told him of the stories I read that people had to find rock bottom, they had to lose absolutely everything in order to find help for themselves. I mentioned one that particularly stuck in my mind, I think it was you Astro, that you went through so much and lost so much before anything changed.

He said he doesn't want to get to that point, he doesn't want to end up without a house, without a job and without anyone that cares for him. He looked genuinely hurt.

Me? I don't know. I don't know if I'm full of hope. He talked so fondly of what he wants out of life. He said he can't do that with drink, he's going to stop drinking. I'm going to the chemist at dinner, I'm getting all the self help pamphlets I can find and I'm getting numbers he needs. I'm leaving it in his hands.

What I will do is this promise to myself, and you. I don't want all the advice given to me to be in vain. The very second he slips up, not a drunken session - I mean the very second he slips up, I will detail exactly what happened here, I want the harshest words to kick my ass and wake me up. The door will closed forever.

I can't continue hurting myself trying to help him.