Frustration - Mixed Signals!!!!

[Kellye C]

Right now I am so frustrated I could scream. In fact I just did scream and scared the crap out of my daughter so I thought I'd vent here and see if I can get some unbiased input.

I have a "friend" that's more than a "friend" sometimes and not at others. We've been seeing each other on average once a month. Not because I don't want to spend more time with him but because he says he is set in his ways and the chemistry between us scares him. Doesn't seem too scared when we finally do get to spend time together though.

This man has very long term sobriety and is a good bit older than me (I'm 40). I don't understand the dynamics of our relationship but they are making me crazy. We stay in contact with daily e-mails and then talk at least once a week on the phone. He can be very flirtatious in e-mail and then when it gets to a certain level he just switches gears and goes back to cool, almost business like. It takes an act of God for us to spend time together yet when we do he seems like he is so happy and doesn't want our time together to end. The next day he talks happily about it and then he goes through a period of being distant and then it all starts again.

Some days I accept this for what it is and I just deal with it but other times (like today) I get so frustrated. There is a strong possibility that he will be moving out of state within the next year and we've both talked about that. He told me he is afraid of hurting me and/or getting hurt by falling head over heels for me and then having to leave. Knowing this I want to spend as much time together happy as we can but I am getting more and more frustrated by this "stupid" dance we seem to be doing. He just told me a couple of weeks ago that I'm dangerous and that he can't just have a little of me without wanting much more. Then when I suggest spending time together he just disappears for the rest of the day or tells me how "dull and boring" he is as if that's supposed to scare me off. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

At times I feel it would be better to just cut my losses and walk away but he is such a genuinely nice person that I don't want to lose that. He has been one of my biggest encouragers in my recovery and has spent this week sending me sweet e-mails of good wishes about my 2 years sober and calling me and then switching gears in mid conversation. This hurts so much as I feel totally rejected. Then the next day it's as if nothing has happened.

I'm afraid to confront him with all of this as I don't know how he'd react. I know I'm playing a part in my own misery because I keep going back for more. Believe me, if I thought he had no interest in me/us I'd walk away as I am not about to chase somebody who doesn't want to spend time with me. But he doesn't act that way most of the time.

Anyway I needed to get this out in black and white. I'm heading to a meeting to get out of my own head and hopefully when I come back I can look at this more rationally. Anyone who would like to offer their opinion on this feel free. It's obvious I'm not able to objective about any of this right now and it's always easier when you're not the one in the big ol middle of it.

Maybe I'm naive but I thought being with somebody with long-term sobriety would be easier, like they would have their stuff together by now.

Sigh,
Kellye

[laurie6781]

Kelleye I am sure there are several things going on here.......1 is probably the difference in your ages, 2. is probably the fact that you are just coming up on 2 years of sobriety. You state he has long term sobriety and thus has seen time and time again what happens to relationships with someone fairly young in sobriety. 3. He knows he's moving away and I believe he truly does not want to hurt you or himself. 4. He does try and be friendly with you and then sees that it could lead to more and one more time he backs off probably for 1, 2, and 3.

You seem to want to make it more than a friendship and he does not. I do believe it might be time for you to do some writing in your journal (if you don't journal now would be a great time to start) about your motives, your frustrations, because of your expectations, etc.

Congratulations on your TWO YEARS!!!!!!!!! That is a GREAT accomplishment. As you can see, the longer we remain sober and clean, the narrower the road gets and the more intense 'our working on ourselves' becomes.

Enjoy your sobriety week!!!!!!

Love and (((((to all))))),

[Kellye C]

Laurie, thank you for your input. I agree I need to look at this more closely. I plan to work on not responding to the flirting and his referrals to our past intimate times and just focus on the friendship aspect of it. I also need to keep reminding myself that I am powerless over people, places and things and look within for the answer. It's different and it doesn't feel real good but I don't want to risk ruining the friendship part of it so if I have to tie my hands to my chair I WILL NOT RESPOND IN ANYTHING BUT A FRIENDLY FASHION.

The journalling idea is a great suggestion. I love to write so I don't know why I resist it so (unless it's because it involves looking at...........ME!) I tend to just do it when my butt is falling off and I'm always amazed at how much better I feel and how much clearer things look when I do it.

Thank you for responding and sharing your wisdom.

Hugs,
Kellye

[pmaslan]

Kellye I have been trying to figure this one out for days!
I don't know, but it really sounds like too much work.
Do you really want to work that hard in the begining of a
relationship? I know I don't. What do your think?

[Kellye C]

Well, it's been interesting. Since I posted this I have changed my reactions totally. He has tried to draw me out, made innuendos (so no it's not just my imagination!) and I have replied just sticking to whatever topic we were on. This has resulted in 3 phone calls this week. It feels like a dance whether I being new in recovery am imagining it or not but I'm trying my hardest not to do it.

Patty I keep asking myself that same question. I am thinking the answer is no BUT we are SO attracted to each other when we are together. It's crazy to be able to have such wonderful times together and then flip the switch.

Anywho, that is the update. I'm thinking on this and watching and trying not to keep doing the things that made me crazy. He is supposed to give me my chip in a couple of weeks so I doubt I will see him before that. I'll let ya'll know. This probably all sounds stupid to most but it is a struggle for me to figure this out and to soul search.

Hugs,
Kellye

[aasharon90]

Hi Kellye. Sharon here. I just wanted to say thank you for taking time out to share with me ur thoughts when i post. Ur supportiveness and friendship here in recovery is MUCH APPRECIATED. : )

We all go thru our trails and cross carrying when it come to rough times in recovery. Whatever it maybe, whether relationships, communications etc. we always know that ..THIS TOO SHALL PASS.

In ur prayers continue to ask for strength and direction and FOR THY WILL BE DONE. Ultimately whatever happens with be His decision and not ours, right?

Remember you won't be given anymore than what u can handle.

Stay strong. Your in my thoughts.

[liveweyerd]

I wish my husband could talk to you. This man sounds like me when we first started seeing each other. I wouldn't even call it dating! I didn't contact him regularly, hardly ever during the week, just on say Thursday to say I would like to go to say Sarasota this weekend okay? Can you be ready by 5 Friday?

I also told him many times I am here working on a project, the day will come when they shake my hand, thank me for my services and then I will be gone.
I wanted him to understand that I did not plan to get all involved nor should he.

I wanted a companion for my outings and some sex play on the weekends. But just don't make too much of it.

I had become used to living alone and was not willing to be accomodating another as in married, I did not want to be accountable to anyone. I did not want my freedom impinged upon in any way.

I simply was not looking for a committed relationship.

I had been too hurt in the past. I didn't see us going anywhere. And I was set in my ways.
However because he had alot of the same thoughts and feelings....we just kept hanging together.
I really don't know why he put up with me, except he wasn't planning on getting involved either but we did enjoy our weekends.
Just one weekend at a time.

I did go ahead and leave at the end of my project.

Later on thro' email I began to really contemplate his virtues and see him through a different lens. I know the day I fell in love with him.
With that my sister bought him a plane ticket to join me for 3 months.

Shortly after......we married and are truly happy and content and very close.

I don't know if any of this is pertinent. But I wonder, do you have to place rules on the relationship? Or can you enjoy the moment?

I wasn't being wise. But maybe your guy is.......because real relationships develop over time. My guy is wise. It's one of the things I love and admire in him.

Have you discussed your thoughts/feelings with him?

[Kellye C]

Thank you Sharon and live. Live, I'm going to have to think and re-read what you wrote. But to answer your last question, I have discussed it with him to a certain extent. I told him during one of our dates that I noticed the trend that he would draw away from me for a while after each time we were together. He acknowledged what I said was true and his explanation was that I was "dangerous" and left him wanting more and more and that he is basically an isolator and it was hard for him to put himself out there but he was doing it because he wanted me to KNOW him and the only way I could get to KNOW him was for him to open up.

I didn't really think I was trying to put "rules" on this but I guess maybe I am. I don't want to control him and I don't want to chase him but I do want to spend more time with him. He told me I was persistent the last time we were together so I told him that if he didn't want to see me anymore just to say the word because I certainly didn't want to "chase" anybody or be where I wasn't wanted. He said that wasn't what he meant.

If he was one way or the other consistently I guess I would either accept it or move on but it's the inconsistency that makes me nuts. He lets it be known in numerous ways how attracted he is but then he doesn't want to spend time together. Like I said, when we do spend time together it is awesome. We laugh, we are so relaxed together, we do things that we both enjoy and he tells me over and over how much he enjoys being with me. He indicates at times how lonely he is but then he isolates.

He does make a lot of references to the 16 year gap in our ages and I know it bothers him even though he knew my ex and knew that there was a 14 year gap there. I've always been attracted to older men so it's not a problem for me but apparently it is for him but not a big enough problem for him not to see me.

I don't want to remove him from my life because he is so sweet, encouraging and thoughtful in most ways. On the other hand I am tired of trying to second guess what he means when he makes innuendos. I am determined that I will not make any more overtures as far as us spending time together. I am going to back off and if he wants to get together he is going to have to speak up. I've tried too many times and have been rebuffed and it hurts.

Anyway, thank you guys so much for listening and offering insight. You have given me food for thought and I will be continue praying about it and trying to not set myself up for further hurt feelings. Meanwhile I am also staying busy with my recovery buddies and not sitting at home feeling sorry for myself. Regardless of how this turns out I intend to live my life sober and as happy as possible.

Hugs,
Kellye

[liveweyerd]

Before I left at the end of my project, he started telling me he loved me. I really withdrew from that and yes, got cold and distancing.
I knew I had all ready made my plans.....to pursue my career and that I would be leaving.
I didn't want to hear those words, didn't want the complications they imply. I didn't want him to feel that way. I didn't want to feel that way.
Somehow I think he telling you this is dangerous is kind of similar.
Maybe going too fast or into areas he is not comfortable with. He sounds intrigued yet skittish.

My hubby is 14 years older than I am, btw.

[Kellye C]

Believe me I have not uttered the "L" word or even hinted at it. I can't honestly say I am at that point as I have fallen head over heels very quickly in the past and am determined not to utter those words again until I am certain that love is truly what I feel and not just lust or some other emotion.

He made a comment once about how exciting it was to have someone in his life but also scary as they might try to take it over. I took that as the warning that it was which is why we see each other once a month or so. I told him I have no desire to take over anyone's life and I mean that.

After getting out of my last relationship where I felt obligated to be with that person EVERY weekend or risk massive pouting and guilt trips I am not looking for someone to live with, someone to HAVE to spend every free moment with. I am finding that I enjoy my freedom to do things but I do wish I could see him a LITTLE more often. But, it's not all about me.

When we talked about him leaving he asked me what I would do when he left. I looked him in the eye and told him that I would be hurt, that I would miss him horribly and that I would get over it and go on with my life. That's when he told me that he had been worried and didn't want to hurt me nor hurt himself by falling head over heels for me.

Just getting all of this out is making me feel better. I guess the director in me is miffed because the show isn't going quite to my liking and the actor in question isn't following my script but rather his own. I think I'm on the right track with him for now by not engaging in the e-mail flirting. I think perhaps I've made myself too available and therefore perhaps taken for granted a bit that I'm going to be there to jump whenever. He told me he was glad to see that I had left my ex because I didn't seem like I was truly happy with him and that I seemed more like his puppet than his partner. I'm wondering if I'm not trying to do the same here and he's sensing that and backing away. That is an icky thought but one I need to examine.

Lots more self-examination to do. Thank you Live for relating your experiences. They are eye-opening.

Hugs,
Kellye

[Lilya]

Hi Kelly,

Thanks for the subject. This could be the guy I´m dating. It´s so similar.

Same fear, same cha cha dance, same fear of commitment. I am 48 years old and twice divorced with four live-in relationships under my belt and lots and lots of rejections, so I´m very hurt and very much afraid.

I stopped seeing men for six years and have been actively involved in a 12 steps groups to work on relationships with other women. I am coming out of this 6 years periode of introspection and building myself up, so I am seeing two men (no sexual commitment) right now.

The one I like more is like your guy. We meet regularly and discuss, (we´re both university professors) flirt and have fun. We take long walks together, we go on trips to visit museums, we have projects together, we sometimes have romantic evenings together, but he is afraid. So am I.

We both travel a lot and sometimes, he just goes without saying goodbuy He´s just gone and I get an e-mail: "Hi, I´m in Sweden on a conferance." Then I don´t see him for weeks and forget him... until he comes back. I always tell him when I´m going away.

He has been going through similar things as I have and he is afraid I am too daring, too open, too direct, too... everything. I guess things could go on for another 48 years and nothing would ever happen.

Has anyone any thoughts about this? I don´t know what to do about this. I don´t want to get into this lonesome game again. Six years are enough.

Love and light,

[Kellye C]

Hi Lilya,

Obviously I'm NOT the one to advise you LOL! But I'm glad you posted and hope others will come up with some good words of wisdom for you.

Mine just out of the blue called me and asked me out for tomorrow night and the weekend and sent me an e-card. WTF!!! Apparently me stepping back and not pursuing has switched some kind of balance again. Anyway, I'm trying to not read anything into it other than he wants to spend time with me.

For your situation, I'm not sure what the right response is. It's one thing when one or the other is scared but when both are scared....... makes things even more complicated. I applaud you for your decision to work on you and to make a boundary of no sexual relationships right now and moreso for sticking to it.

I can't wait to see what others may say to this because there are those out there who know a whole lot more than we do!

Hugs,
Kellye

[liveweyerd]

Well, I wouldn't like the flirting on email and distancing at the same time. Hubby and I did not have the mixed messages going on.

And it all could well go nowhere. That was MY expectation, that it wouldn't. That was my presumption.

That it did is still a surprise!

I WAS NOT looking for a lasting relationship. I would have told you that was NOT what I wanted. So, I wasn't wasting my time chasing something that wasn't there. I didn't expect IT to be there.

just rambling....

[notsleepingwell]

There's a wonderful book out called "He's just not that into you"....deciphers the mixed signals we think men are sending and how women always tend to read things into actions or words that sometimes really aren't there.
Best of luck to ya!
NSW

[liveweyerd]

Lilya,

I often left for the weekends or whatever without feeling I needed to check in. I didn't think we had a commitment to accountability.
Later, I would let him know if I had plans for the weekend, so he would know not to put it on hold because of me.

[Lilya]

Thanks for the responses.

I think I know deep down that my boyfriend is just waiting for something better to happen. Otherwise, he would have done something more concrete and talked about our relationship long-term.

I didn´t realize it until I started writing it down. This thread made it possible for me and your answers made it obvious to me. Now I see things differently. Thank you so much for your kind answers and help.

The power of writing down certain problems never ceases to amaze me. Now I have to think about what I will do about this. It could free me from a relationship that is going nowhere.

Love and light,

[TheGirlInside]

Hi,

I'm in the process of ending a relationship, and decidedly NOT ready or interested in starting a new (romantic) one. SO, take my comments for what they may be worth to you.

Here's a few things I've learned about men in general.

THey like concrete terms. As in, when you say you want to see him a LITTLE more, he may not know exactly what you mean...do you mean every weekend/every other/every day?? Perhaps this is his fear. Do you think it would help to give him a number, like 3 times a week, or 8 times a month, 2 of those being overnights? Seems a little cold, maybe, but I bet a tad more effective.

Someone lent me the Dr. Phil book Love Smart, which I didn't like because it made women out to be constantly on the prowl to "capture" a man, but the book did teach me a few things about men (in general...I have to remember to also deal with men on individual levels, and avoid clumping them together just because some survey revealed that men think _____ ....!).

As a whole, men like to be the pursuers. If they feel like they are being pursued "too much" (however much depends on the individual, I'd guess), they back off, because they are then put in an uncomfortable position.

They want to discuss something ONCE, get it resolved and then NEVER talk about it again (which befuddles me?).... So when women (on the whole) feel as though something is unresolved, and keep bringing it up until it is, men feel like we are "nagging" or "rehashing" something to death.

I often question, WHY, GOD, WHY, have you placed such a strong desire for companionship with men in me??

I'm trying to figure them out, but have to tread lightly, because I've realized that they, like us, don't like to be thought of as a group (as in, "You men are all alike."). I've gotten some firsthand experience "Oops"ing on that one with some male friends.

Best wishes,
Kari

[ibhmn]

It's funny how things seem to work. The less he perceives that this is rattling you, the more he is the pursuer. The more time he f@rts around, the more likely someone else enters the picture and makes you unavailable to him. You seem to have your emotional stuff together more than he does--even if he has been sober longer.

If it were me (I guess I would need gender reassigment), I wouldn't play the game. Keep your options open just like he is--unless he starts talking commitment first. Then, you will have some deciding to do...

Good luck

[Lilya]

I´ve had two meetings with the women I formed a group with to work on relationship issues and after some long and difficult thoughts on the matter, I believe I will stay single for a while.

I think I have been playing games with these two friends I mentionned and allowing them to play games with me. This is not fair to me nor to them. Something is not right here. I believe I am not ready to commit to a relationship right now, so I will be an observer for the time being.

I feel at peace with my decision and firmly believe it to be the right one.

This thread really helped me. It made me see things I had been aware of even much more clearly.

Thank you for the topic Kelly, and best of luck to you and your boyfriend.

Love and light,

[Kellye C]

You're welcome and congratulations on figuring out what is best for your.

My saga continues. We went out Wed and he asked me to stay the night. We went out to eat and went to the beach in Galveston where we sat on the seawall and had really good conversations,snuggled and just listened to nature. He said he had been excited about seeing me all weeek and that he wanted to make this night as romantic as possible. He is the one stating that it was a turning point in our "relationship" - spending the whole night together.

He told me that he really liked how I was able to open up and express my feelings to him and that he was trying to do the same even though it is scary for him. Thursday morning he wrote the sweetest e-mail telling me how wonderful last night was, what a wonderful woman I am and that I bring much joy to his life. I responded and now......................... we're back to no contact. We had talked about getting together tonight but nothing else has been said. I'm not going to push it. As luck would have it I have a stomach bug or something so I am in for the night.

It hurts that he can be one way and turn around and be so totally gone. I'll admit that I wallowed in it all Thusday night and all day yesterday. I'm too miserable physically today to worry much about it. I am giving it to God and I will not, under any circumstances, chase his *ss no matter how much I might want too.

Thanks for letting me vent,
Kellye