Need some advice

[argo]

Well not sure this is really the place for me to be but I don't know what else to do. Hopefully someone out there can relate.

I've lived with chronic back pain for at least 5-10 years now. For the longest time I managed with advil, but ended up taking 1600mg at a time sometimes a couple times a day which I know was destroying my body and not helping with the pain so I finally broke down and went to see the doc. This was about 7 months ago and they still don't know what's wrong. I've taking multiple x-rays MRI, and CT scans. Tried physical therapy briefly and I'm currently on Oxycodone. This is after multiple things (non-narcotic) then Vicoden then percocet. Since they don't know what's wrong my doctor sent me to a pain clinic. And this is where my problem lies.

I also have a medical marijuana card and the pain clinic won't see me unless I quite smoking. I was smoking when my doctor first prescribed me the opiates and they help. The pain is bad enough without them that I don't think I'd be able to hold onto my job if I completely quit, at least not without something else to take their place. However they have severe side effects that the marijuana greatly reduced. Now that I've quit smoking I really want some other alternative to the pain pills. The side effects were manageable before but now are almost as bad as the pain. Complete loss of appetite not being able to sleep and loved ones have brought to my attention that I just don't seem happy and pissed at the world. Then the pain clinic has me on a leash like I'm a child and expects me to come in whenever they want with 24 hours notice for pill counts and urine tests. This is probably the worst as I don't feel in control of my own life. I'm completely dependent on the clinic that can cut me off at any time for any reason. With the dependency and withdrawals associated with opiates it makes me extremely uncomfortable putting my life in someone elses hands, especially someone who couldn't care less about me. So I want off the opiates.

A couple weeks ago I quit cold turkey and that lasted about 2 days. The w/d's were bad but manageable. But by then my back was hurting so bad I could barely bend over. I'm now taking about 1/3 to 1/2 of what I'm prescribed each day which doesn't completely ease the pain but I can live with it. The pain that is, the side effects and dealing with the pain clinic I'm not so sure of. However there are still times, twice in the last 2 weeks that even on the lower dose the pain is almost unbearable.

So I'm lost and have no idea what to do. It's stressing me out immensely. I want off these stupid pills so bad, and if it wasn't for the pain I know I could quit easily. It just seems my options are live with the pain and probably end up on disability and therefore be miserable or keep taking the pills and have less pain but still be miserable from all the side effects.

[greysparkey]

Hi ARGO !

Welcome ! This is a great forum. Lots of great help. I am a bit confussed about your "medical marijuana card". You smoke for pain relief or for the side effects from pain medication? You said the pain clinic won't prescribe unless you stopped smoking. I hope you get some more feedback from this forum. I must admit I have never had loss of appetite, insomnia or irritabilty from pain medication. Hope you get better. Hang in there.
Mary Jo

[argo]

As for the MJ card, initially when I started smoking it was just for relaxation and insomnia. I've always had difficulty falling and staying asleep and it seems to be worse now but who knows maybe it's just in my head. I got the card for chronic pain and the loss of appetite from the pills.

The loss of appetite though is definitely not just in my head. Even before I quit I wouldn't eat all day, until I smoked which immediately made my stomach ache from lack of food. So the only time I would ever eat is if I smoked. And to be honest I know not eating isn't healthy but that is a side effect I'd take to get rid of the pain.

I guess why I really want to get off them is because I don't feel in control. I've done a lot of drugs in the past, lets just say pretty much everything shy of shooting up. But the drugs never controlled me. If I wanted to quit I quit, simple as that. With these pills though even taking as prescribed I feel I'm abusing them . I've never ran out early or had to buy off the street, never took more than my daily dosage, though would double up a dose sometimes if the pain was really bad and the first pill wasn't working well enough. But what I would do is take one as soon as I started to feel the pain coming back, just so it would never get to the unbearable levels.

Right now I know I'm physically dependent on the pills and I guess that scares me more than anything. What happens if I lose my job or my insurance? I've only been on them for 6-7 months now but it really scares me to think 3 years down the road I could get laid off or lose my insurance. And then what? I mean I guess I could go to a methadone clinic if that ever happened but it's just really not how I want to live my life. I'd rather deal with the addiction/dependency on my terms than be forced into it. And it's really not something I'd want to deal with at the same time as dealing with the stress of losing my job. There's also a high chance my work is going to be dropping my health plan soon and only offering a high deductible plan which means I'd be paying for these visits out of pocket. Being a single father that barely scrapes by each month the added cost of healthcare could really hurt.

And because of that I think I've gotten into a hoarding mentality. Where I want to lie to my doctor about how much I'm taking just so I can stockpile them. So I basically feel the drug is controlling my behavior instead of me. And that has never happened before.

[argo]

Is a lack of strength/energy a symptom of withdrawal? I know the flu like symptoms and leg pain is. I only took 1 pill yesterday and 1 so far today, prescribed 6 per day. Yesterday after a shower I was completely exhausted about to pass out, and today I'm trying to clean and can't do anything for more than 5-10 min before feeling the same. Like I'm about to pass out and don't even have the energy to stand up. Could that be from going through withdrawals or is this something else? Cause I'm not really having the flu symptoms now.

[greysparkey]

Hi there again,
Wow. you sound like you are caught between a rock and a hard place. If you have a MJ card, then doesn't that mean the state you live in permits you to use mj for medicinal purposes? Why then, would the pain clinic object to that? It sounds like you are undermedicated for your pain. The lack of appetite may improve as you get used to the side effects of the pain meds. I know insomnia is a withdrawl symptom of stopping mj . It took my son 6 months to sleep normal after he stopped smoking it. (He just celebrated 16 months of sobriety). As far a withdrawl sypmtoms, I find it hard to imagine you would have any since you are underdosing yourself with the pills. Could be you actually had the flu? I hope things work out for you with your pain management, insomnia, and lack of appetite. Could be signs of something else. Have you ever been screened for depression?
MJ

[argo]

The pain clinic says they operate under federal guidelines where MJ is still a schedule 1 drug. ie no medical use. They told me they have to, federal law but who know if they told me the truth. I imagine it's just to cover their own butts. And I'm pretty sure it's w/ds right now. I was taking 90mg a day for several months I'm now taking 15. The lack of energy may not be related, but I'm noticing the same symptoms as when I quit cold turkey for 2 days. Just not as bad.

I've never noticed any w/d symptoms from quitting MJ and have been smoking off and on for close to 15 years, I've quit several times anywhere from a few months to look for a job to over 2 years when my son was on his way.

I've also had a real hard time quitting MJ this time around. Never had any problems before. But then again it was always my choice and my actions weren't being forced by anyone but me. I quite for 4 days after seeing the clinic the first time and was given some anti-depressant for sleep which ended up being really bad. Raving lunatic bad reaction. And ended up smoking to come down off that "high". That's when I decided I was done with pills but have been going back and forth since then. Too much pain need the pills gotta quit smoking to I need off these things so I smoke again. It's only been like 2 days right now and I'm up after 4 hours of sleep wide awake. And I took a sleeping pill I got Lunesta 3mg from a friend. Still can't sleep through the night. It's now been 18 hours sine my last pill.

I've never been screened for depression and I'm definitely under medicated right now but not if I take my full dose. But if I take my full dose and get cut off for what ever reason I know I'm gonna be screwed. I have first hand experience with several people who are addicted not just dependent on opiates and really don't want that to be me. But then again I don't know what else to do about the pain. It's my weekend so I can deal now, but I know I have to take more once the work week starts. The only thing I can think of now is to try that steroid shot in the spine and hope it helps. I've been kinda scared to do it though. There's got to be some way to deal with the pain without opiates.

Thanks Mary Jo if nothing else I think it's helping just to be able to talk to someone about this. My clinic appointment is in a week, I think I'm going to talk to the doc about alternatives.

All the other issues are minor compared to my fear of addiction and being reliant on someone who wouldn't think twice about cutting me off for any reason.

[greysparkey]

Hi ARGO !

I am really sorry for your situation. It sounds like you are trying so hard. I hope your clinic appt goes well and you and the doctor communicate and reach an effective treatment plan for you. Hang in there. Let me know how it goes.

Mary Jo

[Freedom1990]

I would suggest being screened for depression, seriously. When my depression kicks in hard, my physical symptoms are exacerbated.

Also, it concerns me that you have never gotten a definitive diagnosis of the back pain. The symptoms only are being treated.

I have spinal stenosis, and degenerative disc disease, with a ruptured disc in my lower back that never healed, and now slowly leaks tiny amounts of the fluid from the disc. That fluid is caustic and irritating outside of the disc.

I absolutely will not do drugs like oxycodone/percocets/lortabs, etc. I was given oxycodone after a major hernia repair in January of this year, and on top of the physical withdrawals, the mood swings were unbearable for a month after discontinuing the drug. I also had horrible anxiety whenever it felt like hitting. I felt like I was going to come out of my skin!

I do see a pain management specialist about every six months for steroid injections into my tailbone, which usually knocks out the sciatica radiating down into my legs.

I do understand what it's like to live with chronic pain.

[argo]

Thanks for the replies. I've gone a week now with no pills and went to see the pain clinic today. I'm gonna stay on them for now but at a much lower dose. Getting off them for a week really helped clear up my mind and let me think straight.

I'm also going to give the injections a try next week so hopefully that will help. I know what I'm dealing with now though and know I can get off them. And only taking them when I really need it should lessen any w/d's if I need to. Thanks again

[Freedom1990]

Glad you checked back in! Let us know how the injections go, okay?

[barb dwyer]

I must admit I have never had loss of appetite, insomnia or irritabilty from pain medication.

I've had all of them at one time or another seeking a pain med that will actually treat the pain, and not just get me stoned so I don't care.

Which has been the problem - cuz the minute I get stoned - I'm gonna drink.