It was suggested that I move my question to here -Standing at a crossroads, need help - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

marysayz · 06-09-2008, 12:48 PM

Hi there, everyone, first post here. I was severely injured, broke 13 bones in my right ankle and leg. Was on morphine, then oxycontin (briefly, that one scared me), then got down to percocet 10-325. Quite a few of my friends take them also for one reason or another. I noticed some of them taking quite heavily and noticed that my intake had increased as well. I used to take one a day...if I took two I would feel sick to my stomach. Well, a lot of stressful things happened in my life and I found myself taking them every day sometimes as many as 6-8. One of my friends was taking 20 or more a day and I was worried about her and about becoming like her and she mentioned suboxone as a drug that helped people get off of opiods.

She found a wonderful doctor for both of us, he prescribed suboxone, it helped tremendously (other than the head pain) for me. She went right back to the pain pills and we no longer associate, since I have caught her stealing my meds.

The problem was that I was still experiencing a lot of pain in my leg. I mentioned this to the doctor prescribing me the suboxone and he told me to take the sub and naproxen to counter the pain. After three months of suffering, he put me back on the percocets. I am now getting 275 percocet hcl 15 mg per month. My tolerance is through the roof. So I have found that I have a far worse habit than I ever did before I attempted to quit. I still have half a bottle (120) percocet left and about 30 suboxone in a bottle from a few months ago.

What I was going to try was to get up tomorrow and just take suboxone...try staying on just that for as many days as I can, then if my ankle hurts really bad, take naproxen for the rest of the day, try to go to sleep and if it still hurts when I get up in the am , take percocet for that day, then switch back to suboxone when the pain is gone. Is that just plain stupid?

Can one take percocet say 2-3 days of the week and suboxone the other days??

Because taking just percocet is killing the pain (and everything else) and taking just suboxone is leaving me hurting horribly. It has also made me very suspicious of my friends who are taking them, because of some things that have happened to justify my suspicions. lol, I just reminded myself of that great line Hurley had in Lost this week. He said, "Man I already have conversations with dead people..I don't want to be paranoid too!"

Thanks for your help

Mary

**Alera** · 06-09-2008, 01:33 PM

You mentioned OxyContin. That is controlled release Percocet without the Tylenol. My friends with chronic pain either found it very helpful or useless. I know two people that would fall asleep on the lowest dose. It just wasn't the medication for them.

You mentioned morphine. Was that the controlled release "MSContin" or short term Morphine Sulphate? I ask because I have found MSContin to be very helpful for chronic pain, and after a couple days at the lowest dose needed, I did not get "high" nor did I get drowsy. It works great on my friend's nerve pain and NOTHING touched that. She is more functional on the MS as well.

ksos · 06-09-2008, 01:45 PM

Hi Mary and Hi Alera!

I just would want to say to Mary that before doing any "self-medical interventions" that an MD should be consulted. If the doctor you currently have is unable to treat your pain, maybe a pain management specialist may be an option.

Alera. Is MS Contin the type of Morphine I would get with the pump? I was just curious if you happened to know. I cannot even think of a short-acting pain med being administered to me. Or maybe I can just ask my oh so busy MD....I never knew the difference b/w the two types of medications, though.

***nandm*** · 06-09-2008, 05:47 PM

There are two main types of morphine. Oxycodone and oxycontin. MS contin is another name for oxycontin which is the time release long acting form. Oxycodone is the short fast acting kind used for break through as needed pain control. The mscontin form is the kind people usually will take daily for primary pain management then they usually have the quick, short acting kind, oxycodone, for break through pain. Hope that clarifies your question

marysayz · 06-09-2008, 08:31 PM

Maybe it will help if I clarify a bit. My accident occurred three years ago. It was initially that I was on morphine and then the oxycontin. The bulk of the time I have spent on oxycodone 10/325's. I seemed to be doing just fine with them for a long time. Then I met other people who were doing them and doing it for the buzz not pain relief. I was thankful I wasn't like them. Then, back in October I was switched back to oxycontin..these were 10's. They didn't quite seem to do it for me so I requested to be put back on percocet. Instead they prescribed methadone. I hated that stuff and just left the pain clinic and went back to my percocets.

I noticed in December that I was taking them more and more after years of stability on them. I was becoming the person that I had referred to in the last paragraph and didn't like it. It was then that I went on the Suboxone (January), still felt pain, then switched to Suboxone and Naproxen (Feb). Finally in March I went back to the percocet.....I was prescribed 15 mg. hcl. That didn't provide the same relief and in April I was prescribed 30 mg hcl. When I went back in May I said I felt they were too much and went back to 15 mg hcl....but I got double the amount so the overall milligram intake per month was the same.

I am an accountant and numbers are the way I look at things. For a long time I was taking 1200 milligrams of Percocet per month with no problems. Now after attempting to quit, I am currently taking 4050 milligrams a month. WTF?????

I was hoping that by combining the percocet (for bad pain days) and taking Suboxone (for normal pain days) that I could reduce my overall percocet intake back to 1200 milligrams a month. Or have I now made my tolerance so damn high that I can't go back?

Other alternatives being considered are epidurals. I am scared to death of them....the needle is huge, my mother and my daughter both think I should not try them as they have both had bad experiences with them during pregnancy.

Thank you to everyone who has been trying to help me resolve this. I really want to have mental clarity and be pain free.

ksos · 06-09-2008, 09:54 PM

Hi Mary...

I did understand your predicament the first time, but we are prohibited from providing medical advice. Because of this policy of the community, I made a suggestion that you may wish to consult with a medical doctor who is a Pain Management specialist. It would seem that this type of health professional would be able to best answer these extremely complicated questions that you are bringing up.

I know the fears that you are speaking about with respect to some of the interventions used in Pain control, like epidural injections and the like. But don't you think that receiving medical advice on a message board is sort of dangerous for you? I definitely believe that it would be completely irresponsible to do that...

I would hate to see you hurt yourself with inaccurate and misguided information.

Ksos

ksos · 06-09-2008, 10:04 PM

Mary,

I didn't mean to be a jerk to you by my response. It just seems that medication titration is really something an MD should do in person with you. It sort of would be silly for me to ask you to do my taxes if you never saw my income stubs or receipts or whatever you would need to do a return.

All I know is that these medications are all very different. Percocet and Subuxone are completely different, right? Just from a layman's point of view, it just makes more sense for a trained pharmocologist to do all this adding and subtracting of chemicals that are entering your bloodstream...

Sorry if I was too rambunctious before...

Latte · 06-09-2008, 10:32 PM

I would request a referral to a pain clinic. You have legitimate pain issues and pain clinics have some awesome ways to control pain that don't always include narcotic medications or greatly reduce your need.

I have a chronic condition that is treated with antidepressants and other meds as I am an addict and narcotics are not an option for me. The pain clinic got me in for chiropractic care, and many other non traditional therapies that have become amazing. I have my life back, and when my condition worsens (it will eventually) I don't have to go for the big guns.

None of this is actual medical advice as I'm not a doctor but pain clinics can be amazing resources, as long as you find the right one (not pill pushers).

marysayz · 06-10-2008, 10:03 AM

I came here to get some opinions from people who have experienced or can in some way relate to my dilemma. I have been to the pain clinic...they seem to want to keep the pills flowing. My intent wasn't to follow any specific suggestion in lieu of the doctors advice, but to get some different opinions, do some research on them and present them to the doctor. For now, I am not going to alternate back and forth. I started taking the suboxone this am and am going to stay on it just as long as I can, planning to switch back in forth every few days doesn't seem too smart. I am going to talk this over with the doctor when I see him next. Has anyone had experience with the epidurals in the back? That may be the answer to the pain, but I am scared of it. So far so good, no withdrawals, no pain that is overwhelming.

You guys seem like a wonderful group of people here. I hope that I can contribute to this board and give back what others have given me! Ironically, besides being an accountant I am a licensed drug and alcohol counselor (tho not active, I am now living in a different state then I was licensed in!)

Enjoy your day

Mary

**Alera** · 06-10-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksos

Hi Mary and Hi Alera!

I just would want to say to Mary that before doing any "self-medical interventions" that an MD should be consulted. If the doctor you currently have is unable to treat your pain, maybe a pain management specialist may be an option.

Alera. Is MS Contin the type of Morphine I would get with the pump? I was just curious if you happened to know. I cannot even think of a short-acting pain med being administered to me. Or maybe I can just ask my oh so busy MD....I never knew the difference b/w the two types of medications, though.

All medical care should be done under the supervision of an MD. Pain Management docs can be the best. That is what I saw for years. I finally stabilized so my regular MD has been prescribing my medications for me but if my needs were to change I'll go back to the specialist.

MSContin is a tablet, so it would not be the kind of morphine that is in your pump.

OxyContin is not the same as morphine. You can obtain information on the different drugs at a source such as webmd.com or wikipedia.

***nandm*** · 06-10-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alera

OxyContin is not the same as morphine. You can obtain information on the different drugs at a source such as webmd.com or wikipedia.

Alera, thank you for clarifying that. I have had my head filled up with finals the past two weeks so my brain obviously was not working when I posted. But the other info I posted on long and short acting forms of oxy is correct. Sorry to anyone I confused with my post. Guess that is one good reason not to give or ask for medical advice on a discussion forum as there is always someone like me who is confused at times..... :rof

**Alera** · 06-10-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nandm

Alera, thank you for clarifying that. I have had my head filled up with finals the past two weeks so my brain obviously was not working when I posted. But the other info I posted on long and short acting forms of oxy is correct. Sorry to anyone I confused with my post. Guess that is one good reason not to give or ask for medical advice on a discussion forum as there is always someone like me who is confused at times..... :rof

Do not use the F word (Finals) around me this week LOL

I hope you did well. Celebrate that you are finished.

***nandm*** · 06-10-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alera

Do not use the F word (Finals) around me this week LOL

I hope you did well. Celebrate that you are finished.

Thank you for the laugh. You would have enjoyed the look on my face when I saw f word, my brain was racing thinking "now, I know I did not use that word, I know I wouldn't do that."

Yes, thank God it is over until the Fall. Definately is a brain drain.

***nandm*** · 06-10-2008, 02:18 PM

Please note....as my post a few posts down stated; regarding Oxy and morphine I was incorrect as they are not one in the same. I realize that and had I proof read my post prior to hitting the post button I am sure I would have caught it. I have had finals all week and my brain is a tad fried. Sorry again for the misinformation. Thanks to anyone who caught this error.

A good example of why we do not give or recieve medical advice on this forum.

Freedom1990 · 06-10-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marysayz

Has anyone had experience with the epidurals in the back? That may be the answer to the pain, but I am scared of it.

Mary, I have spinal stenosis and bulging discs in the L4-L5 region, and my primary care physician referred me on to a wonderful pain management specialist.

He specifically uses a fluroscope (sp?) to guide the needle exactly where it needs to go for the steroid injections, as opposed to injecting in the general area of the pain, and it's helped me immensely.

I get my injections in the tailbone area, and although it's uncomfortable because there is a sensation of pressure as each injection is administered, he first uses a local to deaden the area.

I've remained relatively pain-free for 6 months at a time, sciatica is non-existent, and if I pace myself and remember my limitations, any pain is minimal.

06-09-2008, 12:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
marysayz Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 6	It was suggested that I move my question to here -Standing at a crossroads, need help Hi there, everyone, first post here. I was severely injured, broke 13 bones in my right ankle and leg. Was on morphine, then oxycontin (briefly, that one scared me), then got down to percocet 10-325. Quite a few of my friends take them also for one reason or another. I noticed some of them taking quite heavily and noticed that my intake had increased as well. I used to take one a day...if I took two I would feel sick to my stomach. Well, a lot of stressful things happened in my life and I found myself taking them every day sometimes as many as 6-8. One of my friends was taking 20 or more a day and I was worried about her and about becoming like her and she mentioned suboxone as a drug that helped people get off of opiods. She found a wonderful doctor for both of us, he prescribed suboxone, it helped tremendously (other than the head pain) for me. She went right back to the pain pills and we no longer associate, since I have caught her stealing my meds. The problem was that I was still experiencing a lot of pain in my leg. I mentioned this to the doctor prescribing me the suboxone and he told me to take the sub and naproxen to counter the pain. After three months of suffering, he put me back on the percocets. I am now getting 275 percocet hcl 15 mg per month. My tolerance is through the roof. So I have found that I have a far worse habit than I ever did before I attempted to quit. I still have half a bottle (120) percocet left and about 30 suboxone in a bottle from a few months ago. What I was going to try was to get up tomorrow and just take suboxone...try staying on just that for as many days as I can, then if my ankle hurts really bad, take naproxen for the rest of the day, try to go to sleep and if it still hurts when I get up in the am , take percocet for that day, then switch back to suboxone when the pain is gone. Is that just plain stupid? Can one take percocet say 2-3 days of the week and suboxone the other days?? Because taking just percocet is killing the pain (and everything else) and taking just suboxone is leaving me hurting horribly. It has also made me very suspicious of my friends who are taking them, because of some things that have happened to justify my suspicions. lol, I just reminded myself of that great line Hurley had in Lost this week. He said, "Man I already have conversations with dead people..I don't want to be paranoid too!" Thanks for your help Mary

06-09-2008, 01:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Alera SR's SMART Goth Mod Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,868	You mentioned OxyContin. That is controlled release Percocet without the Tylenol. My friends with chronic pain either found it very helpful or useless. I know two people that would fall asleep on the lowest dose. It just wasn't the medication for them. You mentioned morphine. Was that the controlled release "MSContin" or short term Morphine Sulphate? I ask because I have found MSContin to be very helpful for chronic pain, and after a couple days at the lowest dose needed, I did not get "high" nor did I get drowsy. It works great on my friend's nerve pain and NOTHING touched that. She is more functional on the MS as well.
	__________________ Copyright © 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 Alera The addiction will protect itself ... AT ALL COSTS.

06-09-2008, 01:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
ksos Waiting For Engines Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: brooklyn, new york Posts: 545	Hi Mary and Hi Alera! I just would want to say to Mary that before doing any "self-medical interventions" that an MD should be consulted. If the doctor you currently have is unable to treat your pain, maybe a pain management specialist may be an option. Alera. Is MS Contin the type of Morphine I would get with the pump? I was just curious if you happened to know. I cannot even think of a short-acting pain med being administered to me. Or maybe I can just ask my oh so busy MD....I never knew the difference b/w the two types of medications, though.
	__________________ Ksos "If Enough people Call You A Duck, You Better Start Quacking."

06-09-2008, 05:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
*nandm* Life the gift of recovery! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Home is where the heart is Posts: 4,601	There are two main types of morphine. Oxycodone and oxycontin. MS contin is another name for oxycontin which is the time release long acting form. Oxycodone is the short fast acting kind used for break through as needed pain control. The mscontin form is the kind people usually will take daily for primary pain management then they usually have the quick, short acting kind, oxycodone, for break through pain. Hope that clarifies your question
	__________________ NOTE: All Big Book quotes are from the First Edition of the Big Book History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, however, if faced with courage, need not be lived again. - Maya Angelou

06-09-2008, 08:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
marysayz Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 6	Thanks everyone..but I am still confused Maybe it will help if I clarify a bit. My accident occurred three years ago. It was initially that I was on morphine and then the oxycontin. The bulk of the time I have spent on oxycodone 10/325's. I seemed to be doing just fine with them for a long time. Then I met other people who were doing them and doing it for the buzz not pain relief. I was thankful I wasn't like them. Then, back in October I was switched back to oxycontin..these were 10's. They didn't quite seem to do it for me so I requested to be put back on percocet. Instead they prescribed methadone. I hated that stuff and just left the pain clinic and went back to my percocets. I noticed in December that I was taking them more and more after years of stability on them. I was becoming the person that I had referred to in the last paragraph and didn't like it. It was then that I went on the Suboxone (January), still felt pain, then switched to Suboxone and Naproxen (Feb). Finally in March I went back to the percocet.....I was prescribed 15 mg. hcl. That didn't provide the same relief and in April I was prescribed 30 mg hcl. When I went back in May I said I felt they were too much and went back to 15 mg hcl....but I got double the amount so the overall milligram intake per month was the same. I am an accountant and numbers are the way I look at things. For a long time I was taking 1200 milligrams of Percocet per month with no problems. Now after attempting to quit, I am currently taking 4050 milligrams a month. WTF????? I was hoping that by combining the percocet (for bad pain days) and taking Suboxone (for normal pain days) that I could reduce my overall percocet intake back to 1200 milligrams a month. Or have I now made my tolerance so damn high that I can't go back? Other alternatives being considered are epidurals. I am scared to death of them....the needle is huge, my mother and my daughter both think I should not try them as they have both had bad experiences with them during pregnancy. Thank you to everyone who has been trying to help me resolve this. I really want to have mental clarity and be pain free.

06-09-2008, 09:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
ksos Waiting For Engines Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: brooklyn, new york Posts: 545	Hi Mary... I did understand your predicament the first time, but we are prohibited from providing medical advice. Because of this policy of the community, I made a suggestion that you may wish to consult with a medical doctor who is a Pain Management specialist. It would seem that this type of health professional would be able to best answer these extremely complicated questions that you are bringing up. I know the fears that you are speaking about with respect to some of the interventions used in Pain control, like epidural injections and the like. But don't you think that receiving medical advice on a message board is sort of dangerous for you? I definitely believe that it would be completely irresponsible to do that... I would hate to see you hurt yourself with inaccurate and misguided information. Ksos

06-09-2008, 10:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
ksos Waiting For Engines Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: brooklyn, new york Posts: 545	Mary, I didn't mean to be a jerk to you by my response. It just seems that medication titration is really something an MD should do in person with you. It sort of would be silly for me to ask you to do my taxes if you never saw my income stubs or receipts or whatever you would need to do a return. All I know is that these medications are all very different. Percocet and Subuxone are completely different, right? Just from a layman's point of view, it just makes more sense for a trained pharmocologist to do all this adding and subtracting of chemicals that are entering your bloodstream... Sorry if I was too rambunctious before...

06-09-2008, 10:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Latte Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Palmer, AK Posts: 513	I would request a referral to a pain clinic. You have legitimate pain issues and pain clinics have some awesome ways to control pain that don't always include narcotic medications or greatly reduce your need. I have a chronic condition that is treated with antidepressants and other meds as I am an addict and narcotics are not an option for me. The pain clinic got me in for chiropractic care, and many other non traditional therapies that have become amazing. I have my life back, and when my condition worsens (it will eventually) I don't have to go for the big guns. None of this is actual medical advice as I'm not a doctor but pain clinics can be amazing resources, as long as you find the right one (not pill pushers).
	__________________ I am so thankful for my sobriety

06-10-2008, 10:03 AM	#9 (permalink)
marysayz Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 6	Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice I came here to get some opinions from people who have experienced or can in some way relate to my dilemma. I have been to the pain clinic...they seem to want to keep the pills flowing. My intent wasn't to follow any specific suggestion in lieu of the doctors advice, but to get some different opinions, do some research on them and present them to the doctor. For now, I am not going to alternate back and forth. I started taking the suboxone this am and am going to stay on it just as long as I can, planning to switch back in forth every few days doesn't seem too smart. I am going to talk this over with the doctor when I see him next. Has anyone had experience with the epidurals in the back? That may be the answer to the pain, but I am scared of it. So far so good, no withdrawals, no pain that is overwhelming. You guys seem like a wonderful group of people here. I hope that I can contribute to this board and give back what others have given me! Ironically, besides being an accountant I am a licensed drug and alcohol counselor (tho not active, I am now living in a different state then I was licensed in!) Enjoy your day Mary

06-10-2008, 02:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
*nandm* Life the gift of recovery! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Home is where the heart is Posts: 4,601	Please note....as my post a few posts down stated; regarding Oxy and morphine I was incorrect as they are not one in the same. I realize that and had I proof read my post prior to hitting the post button I am sure I would have caught it. I have had finals all week and my brain is a tad fried. Sorry again for the misinformation. Thanks to anyone who caught this error. A good example of why we do not give or recieve medical advice on this forum.
	__________________ NOTE: All Big Book quotes are from the First Edition of the Big Book History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, however, if faced with courage, need not be lived again. - Maya Angelou