Pain management in recovery

[scotts]

So I am recovering from Hydrocodone addiction. My Dr has prescribed Oxycontin, hydro,ultram, and lidoderm patches(non narcotic). I am refusing to take any of this due to my addiction. I havent taken the Oxy for a year cuz it makes me feel sick. The hydro is my DOC, and the ultram supposivley has worse WD's and addiction than the other two drugs.

My question is for people with injuries that are not going to go away, what do you use for pain control?

Currenly I am using ibuprofen in high amounts but that cant be healthy either. Lidoderm patches work a little bit,but really are only a topical numbing agent.

Id rather have pain than addiction,but this pain is getting pretty damn bad while being off of drugs for 3 days. On a postive note, my old self is slowly returning.

[barb dwyer]

My question is for people with injuries that are not going to go away, what do you use for pain control?

i'm going to try everything -
we can hang out - and learn about it together if you want.

I am at the point that I've been questioning why I was not taking 'something stronger' for pain the other day.
I* was actually forgetting the problems I have with pill taking.
Just because it hurt so bad the other day.

That's when this alcoholic/addict knows - it's time to get off the ...
ok wait.

There's got to be a better metaphor.

SMoke or pass the ....
ok not that one.

Rock or fire.
ok that one will do.

[scotts]

think or thwim lol funny sig.

Yea, pain sucks bad right now, dont know what to do about it because nothing works like opiates. BUT Im not going back to that, so I guess pain it is....

[DesertEyes]

I'm not a doctor, so I can't give any advice as to which meds to take or not. I am a recovering alkie, with a few very painful medical conditions, so I'll share what works for me. See if any of this is useful to you.

My "drug of choice" is _more_. More of _anything_. Booze worked pretty good for awhile, but it eventually turned on me. But booze is _not_ my disease, it's only a symptom of my dizease. I've gotten addicted to sugar, to TV, to work, to money, to adrenalin, to _anything_ that can turn off my head and give me some kind of "safe place" where I can stop feeling bad about me. My problem is not in the chemical, it's in my head.

There is no medication in the world, not matter what the docs say, that I cannot turn into an addiction and use it as an escape for reality. That's just the way my head works. For awhile I was taking Aspirin to help control the earlier stages of pain. What did I do? Start taking more. and more. And next thing you know I'm getting stomach cramps.

With me it doesn't matter _what_ I take. If I let my head go, I will get addicted to it.

My ex-wife was a normie. No addiction of any kind in her family. Fought a nasty disease all her life and eventually she got addicted to pain meds. A normie. Took those meds for _decades_ and had no problem, but eventually it got out of control. I know people who are food addicts. They go to meetings of Overeaters Anonymous. They work the steps same as I do, except they partake of their "drug of choice" three times a day. It's _hard_ on them, but they manage.

What I have done is follow the advice of other people in my meets. When my docs say I have to take a certain medication I tell 'em about my history, and ask them what my options are. As it turns out, there's lots of meds with slightly different effects. We then take a few weeks to experiment with the med and find out what is the dosage that has the best effect with the minum problems.

However, I don't do it alone. I share about it at my meets. I tell people how scared I am of losing my life as a result of getting addicted to the med. I keep a little notebook where I write down every time I take the med and how much and share that book with any alkie that walks in my house. It's out on the kitchen counter where the whole world can see it. I keep _no_ secrets.

Every year my docs "rotate" my meds to something similar, but chemically a little different. We will continue to do that every year until we run out of meds, then start again with the first one. Every time I take one of those pills I _first_ say a prayer, which I learned from the OA people:

"God, come between me and this chemical before the chemical comes between me and You"

As a person who suffers from an addiction to "more" I know I have to spend more time in recovery, more time in meets, more time on the phone with people, every time I take one of those pills. However, I also have to spend more time in recovery every time I get a paycheck, cuz I have been addicted to spending money, every time I go to work, cuz I've been addicted to over-working, every time I sit in a friends house and watch TV, cuz I've been addicted to that.

It says in the big book that all my recovery really amounts to is "a daily reprieve". That's all it will ever be, meds or no meds. I will have to work this program, and work it _hard_, every single day of my life. Pills or no pills. Everything in the world is a temptation to me, because I have a "spiritual malady". So the pills are no different to me than any other source of "more".

I take my meds _exactly_ as my docs have told me. _Exactly_. Not more, not less. If it's not enough I tell my docs and we talk about it. I do other things that my docs have told me, like mild exercise and yoga. Like quiting my high-stress career and taking a simple little desk job for a whole lot less money. I do what I never wanted to do when I was drinking, gunning and running. I follow directions. I share my secrets so they no longer hound me, and I work my recovery all day long, every single day.

This is what works for me.

Mike

[ksos]

I am not gonna start another 300 response post about my way of integrating my recovery and pain management, only to say that I am currently utilizing PO narcotic medication which is very closely supervised by a pain management specialist to manage a 4 year plus chronic pain condition caused by pancreatitis which I was sadly informed, may never go away.

In a few days, I will be undergoing a minor surgical procedure, but a major psychological adjustment, which will involve a morphine pump being put into my back in order to administer regulated pain control. In my physician's view, this will put an end to my ever increasing need for PO opiate medication and eliminate the negative symptoms that my current regimen is causing, such as slurred speech, blurry vision, nightmares, and, basically, ineffective pain control at this point. I will also be taken off two very strong medications which have sincerely helped me for the majority of the time I have had pancreatitis, but are largely ineffective now.

That is the way I have elected to put an end to a quality of life which I have shared with most people here. Also, I would never suggest even considering this procedure, unless recommended by a team of medical and addiction specialists.

You asked a terrific question and look forward to reading other folk's responses to this topic!

[ksos]

Originally Posted by scotts

So I am recovering from Hydrocodone addiction. My Dr has prescribed Oxycontin, hydro,ultram, and lidoderm patches(non narcotic). I am refusing to take any of this due to my addiction. I havent taken the Oxy for a year cuz it makes me feel sick. The hydro is my DOC, and the ultram supposivley has worse WD's and addiction than the other two drugs.

I know I am the last dope addict on the planet who should be even thinking what I am thinking, but a physician's concurrent prescribing of his addict patient's drug of choice, along with another prescription for a stronger kind of opiate, topped off with a third drug which metabolizes into morphine durivatives, seems somewhat odd to me...

Have you informed your MD that you are an addict? Or are there more than one doctor involved in your "program". Just askin'

[serenityqueen]

Yea, pain sucks bad right now, dont know what to do about it because nothing works like opiates. BUT Im not going back to that, so I guess pain it is....

I have to disagree with that statement.

I'm not sure what your pain is a result of, but for me, the combination of drugs that my Dr. uses to TREAT my diseases actually do work better than the opiates I was addicted to.

I have Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Osteoarthritis, and recently diagnosed degenerative disc disese. When I was using, any Rx my Dr. gave me that wasn't a narcotic went right in the trash . . . I never even had the script filled. I had myself convinced that if it wasn't gonna get my high. . . it wasn't going to do anything for my pain. And as long as I had that thought in my head, anything other than opiates else wasn't going to do anything to ease my pain.

After I got into Recovery, my Dr's began to prescribe many different meds that actually treat the diseases rather than just mask the pain. Of course every disease has a different treatment, but I take Naprosyn twice a day, everyday and after a few weeks and much to my surprise it actually had began to get the inflamation down which causes the pain. Good ol Naprosyn, which I used to call glorified Motin actually does work! I also take a med that is generally used for treatment in Cancer patients but because it slows down cell reproduction, it works in some patients with Lupus and RA. I also take one med that was originally prescribed only for Malaria patients, yeph, you read this right, Malaria. But it works well for some Lupus patients. Unfortunately I have to take steroids as well. When the Dr.'s try to wean me off of it, I have too much infammation in some of my vital organs so I'll have to stay on it until a new medicine is invented. And there are other meds that I take that all play a part in my pain being manageable.

I truly believe that some of us addicts are big babies. We don't like pain. We are used to numbing our pain and when we can't, we're not real happy. The other day, like Barb, I was in so much pain that I actually told my best friend that if I had any pain pills, I think I may have taken one. But I had to remember, I am an addict whose DOC is opiates. For this addict, taking an opiate pain pill is much like playing Russian Roulette . . . with a loaded gun. It would surely take me right back out. But I learned a very valuable lesson by this, I didn't use any opiates, I got out my friend the heating pad, nuked some rice socks (see thread on Pain Mgt. forum) turned on a really boring movie on tv and laid down on my bed. I woke up a few hours later, feeling a little bit better. . . and very, very grateful that I didn't have any pain pills here. I got through it . . . it didn't kill me. . . nor have I ever heard of someone actually dying from pain.

By no means am I saying that some addicts/alcoholics can take opiates as prescribed and not go back out. Am I envious of them? Sure I am! I wish I could be one of them, but I'm not. Acceptance once again has proven to be valuable to me.

God Bless,
Judy

[scotts]

Originally Posted by ksos

I know I am the last dope addict on the planet who should be even thinking what I am thinking, but a physician's concurrent prescribing of his addict patient's drug of choice, along with another prescription for a stronger kind of opiate, topped off with a third drug which metabolizes into morphine durivatives, seems somewhat odd to me...

Have you informed your MD that you are an addict? Or are there more than one doctor involved in your "program". Just askin'

No my Dr doesnt know of my addictive nature. He prescribed the 3 various narcotics at different periods of time.

Serinity, what I shouldve said is nothing works as well as opiates that I have tried yet. I have tried lyrica,neurontin,ibuprofen,naproxen,apap,skelaxin, and cortisone shots...none of which worked as well as opiates. I know there has to be something out there. I have degenerative disc disease and am recovering from a herniated disc that affect my sciatic nerve. I also have severe arthritis in my spine, neck, and have chronic headaches. Nothing life threatening and I will continue to have a great life despite pain. I just wish I had a solution.

Im a damn junkie and am craving hydro....Gonna go do some cardio.... Thanks for replying all!

[grateful2b]

Hi everyone..I have fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis and degenerative disc disease...
I used to have a very low pain threshold..Ha!
I made the mistake a few years back of using medical weed for my pain. It was a miracle for my pain, but I became addicted to the weed because of my bp2, trashed my brain chemistry...
I now use ibuprofen, avoid chronic stress, pace myself, really hot baths, swimming in warm pools, lots, rice packs, and Tylenol ones and muscle relaxants when I am really desperate. They took naproxen off the shelves here in canada. I am never free of pain, and some days are better than others , they want me on narcotics but won't go there. my fibro is stable right now..and so life is good, now my desire is to get in some kind of shape
I am so glad to see this forum.

[MrsMagoo]

Good post. I'm listening.
Judy...you are such a good writer!

[serenityqueen]

My statement, about some addicts being able to take opiates as prescribed and not go back out doesn't sound right after I reread it. What I meant to say was that I am sure there are some addicts in Recovery who CAN take opiates as prescribed and not go back to using other drugs, their DOC or abuse the opiates.

(((Scotts))) I feel you hit the nail on the head when you said you are a junkie craving your DOC.

Thanks for your honesty. That's one of the most important parts of Recovery!

God Bless & Thank God . . . Just for Today,
Judy

[ksos]

Originally Posted by scotts

No my Dr doesnt know of my addictive nature. He prescribed the 3 various narcotics at different periods of time.

Serinity, what I shouldve said is nothing works as well as opiates that I have tried yet. I have tried lyrica,neurontin,ibuprofen,naproxen,apap,skelaxin, and cortisone shots...none of which worked as well as opiates. I know there has to be something out there. I have degenerative disc disease and am recovering from a herniated disc that affect my sciatic nerve. I also have severe arthritis in my spine, neck, and have chronic headaches. Nothing life threatening and I will continue to have a great life despite pain. I just wish I had a solution.

Im a damn junkie and am craving hydro....Gonna go do some cardio.... Thanks for replying all!

Scotts...

Thanks for the honest response to my initial question. I was confused about your MD's medication regimen, but now you've cleared that up. I do have one suggestion and that would be to inform your MD that you are an addict in recovery. I know it takes a lot to admit that to your medical provider, for it will change the manner in which you are treated. Hopefully, he might refer you to a pain management specialist who can treat your very real medical problems with appropriate medication--not to say your MD is not equipt to do this, but pain management is not only numbing, mind altering drugs and narcotic patches. I can tell you that much.

As an example, I have had epidural injections, physical therapy, massages, whirlpool or hydrowater baths. Some of these methods have helped me somewhat, but my chronic pancreatitis is seemingly getting worse. But, I do know so many people who are in agony due to the back injuries/conditions you've described and have not had the opportunity or knowledge of alternative methods to treat unremitting pain.

I know that you said that you are a "damn junkie" which, is what I used to consider myself, and still do--don't get me wrong--but you are hurting and that is real. We all carry the label of "addict" or "alcoholic" if we are here, since our lives have become unmanageable dur to chemicals. But there are manageable ways to treat medical conditions that are quite real...

I know I am a huge proponent of Pain Management and it is not what many people have assumed it is. While narcotic medication is used, it is highly regulated and anyone who is on a controlled scheduled II drug, is tested by Federal Law, at least every three months via toxicology. This is not because you are an addict, it is because these medications are very addictive and providers must also be held accountable for what they write prscriptions for.

MY 'ESH' says that one is more apt to be compliant than not, if they are involved in a pain management program and a 12 step forum. I have a team of my pain MD, my sponsor, my addictionologist who is also an MD, and my NA and AA groups.

Just my 2 cents, my friend, and thanks for sharing...

[ksos]

Hi Judy!!!!!!! Hey Barb!!!!

Sorry to have almost missed sayin' "good mornin'" to my "peeps"...

Love always in 102 degree heat (NYC)

Ksos

[stormyb]

Hi ~ I'm new and I like it here. May I say that I spent so much time and energy making sure I had a supply of opiates to keep withdrawals away and for the place they took me. I think about all the phone calls, doctor visits ( I have a helacious pain condition ) pharmacy fills and the stress! Crap! that was the worst...the anxiety bundled with the activies mentioned in being a drug addict. Then last Memorial Day 2007 I went through 1 too many withdrawals, I called my doc asked him to wean me and never looked back. I did have an episode that required a hospital stay and was given Opiates but when I was out of the hospital and refused a prescription for home, I knew I was done and it was OK I guess what I mean to share is simply that - instead of launching a search party for some relief I just think about the hell of 7 years of opiates and its all OK. And I quit smoking....now its cake I love ( and reality TV )
We all do things in our own time I just wanted to share. And the pain ahh this fierce pain, everyone is right only opiates work but for me I have ice, heat, Ipod featuring Dr. DeePak Chopra, Dean Martin and my boyfriend George Michael and Vicks Vapor rub, really try it.

[ksos]

Hi StormyB!

Welcome to this forum and it so terrific to hear that you like it here! I do, too! I think your story tells of a side of narcotic pain control which did not work, but of a will and a goal not to endure the negative aspects of chasing MDs, feeling like a "junkie" when picking a Rx up, and the like.

There are so many aspects to Recovery and Pain Management and it is very helpful to hear your success...BTW, I am also addicted to Reality TV and I think these shows should be considered a controlled substance, as well! (only kidding!)

[jazpoppy]

Welcome Scott and Welcome Stormy, and Hello to everyone else (Serenity, Barb, Ksos, mrsmagoo, grateful2b, and Deserteyes. (sorry if i missed anyone)
:ghug
I am an addict just like everyone else here. I am also a chronic pain patient who like Scott has degenerative disk disease, 3 herniated disks (2 in my neck and 1 in my lower back), spinal stenosis (narrowing of the spinal canal), osteoarthritis in my facet joints (the bony things on your spine), sacroilitis (sp???), carpel tunnel in both wrists, and I broke my knee cap so I have bone spurs all over it so that sux, but I don't want surgery right now. The doctors I have spoken to have different opinions about surgery, two of them wanted to cut me open and get the disks fused now, and 3 of them said not until I'm over 35 (I'm 31 now), but all agree I should get my knee-cap cleaned up so I have less pain there. I get sciatica in my left leg and now its starting to go into my right leg too (its weird how it travels down from my lower back, into my butt, and into my thighs), and migraine headaches. Lately I have been losing strength in my left leg (I had a nerve test done on that leg and its losing sensation, but the doctor said I can wait until it gets worse before they remove the disk in my lower back). Sorry to give such a long laundry list of ailments but I wanted everyone here to know what is wrong with me, and to know how and why I chose to follow my doctor's advice and take one type of narcotic that is specifically for chronic pain. Its methadone so its also what is used for addicts to maintain sobriety and wean off other narcotics. I have tried EVERYTHING, so Scotty here's what I've tried and what worked, didn't work and totally wasted my time: Lyrica (caused blurry vision and swelling in my legs/feet/hands), neurontin (made me a ZOMBIE I just couldn't get used to it), Trazadone (mostly for sleep but also for night pain, it worked ok at first only for sleep not pain, but eventually it stopped working for sleep), Ibuprofen 800 (was on this for over 5 years, now my stomach is all screwed up), Naproxen (works great for my headaches but not at all for my back pain especially the neck pain and it started to make my stomach feel like crap after 3 years), Tylenol (I still use this, it works well in conjunction with my current pain meds, its always been my "old standby"), Cortisone injections (I got 2 weeks relief, then I turned into the "Incrediable Hulk", I seriously get very angry and agitated from steroids even the injections), oral prednisone (you think the cortisone was bad....I should have been committed for the way I acted after being on oral steriods!!!), Elavil (an anti-depressant that is supposed to help pain, I could not wake up in the morning, it just knocked me out and I was zombified the whole next day, tried it for a month, couldn't get used to it), Lidocain Patches (I still use these, they work well for my neck spasms), Ultram (they say its non-narcotic, but I beg to differ, I was up to 10 of them a day and they weren't touching my pain, they just gave me a head buzz, so I took myself off those), Celebrex and Vioxx (both at seperate times, Celebrex has Sulfa in it and I'm allergic to Sulfa so my throat closed up and I had to go to the ER, Vioxx made my bloodpressure go sky high, and my ears ring), Zanaflex (WHOA, most people that like to "trip out" would enjoy these, I was scared, I hallucinated, and I went deaf, and I could not respond to anything for hours, this was discontinued), Flexeril (I still take this for muscle spasms, its not bad), Soma (I take this at night if I'm having muscle spasms, its only for nighty night time as it knocks me out, but I can function the next day). Everything listed here were non-narcotic things I tried besides Physical Therapy, Yoga, and Occupational Therapy which I also did, I REALLY wanted these non-narcotic methods to work, I tried for 3 years to make them work, but I was told by my pain specialist that I needed to have a better quality of life, so I started out on MS Contin (Morphine extended release) for about a year, it made me tired and grumpy, then we tried oxycontin (I get migraines from these for some reason), then I was put back on MS Contin and Norco (Vicodin 10mg/325mg) and stayed on it for another 6 months, then he tried me on Duragesic (Fentanyl) patches (I was HIGHLY allergic to them, they burned my skin and one of them was so burned to my skin it broke open and I ended up with an overdose, those were discontinued), finally we tried methadone and it was the ONLY thing that actually took most of my pain away. I am VERY strict about it, I take it as prescribed and sometimes less if I'm having a good day. I'd rather stay on a lower amount if I can, adjustments are neccessary though, but I am staying below 100mg a day. I don't crave other drugs and I don't crave alcohol, I feel better physically and mentally because I can get out and do things now! I have a 10 year old son and he needs me, now I can play with him (he was so sad for the 3 years of experimental trial and error, that he used to want to stay with his dad (I'm divorced) more than with me, because he said "Mom's always sick, and I'm bored over there." That broke my heart. My new pain doctor is wonderful! I am happy to have her (the other doctor had an accident and had to close his practice). I was no stranger to methadone, percoset, vicodin because I had abused them in the past I was really in love with percosets and vicodins, I actually only bought methadone to try to get off the other opiates I was abusing, this was all before my accident and the degenerating diseases getting bad. So I have someone else hold my medication anyways, I only get what's prescribed to me each day (I NEVER ask for more), I write down EVERY SINGLE pill I take and keep track of what's in my bottle by having my boyfriend who holds the medication under lock and key, count it in front of me. I also get on here and share with everyone. I work my steps, but I don't get to many meetings only because I'm new here (just moved from NH to MA) and I don't know any, my bf is going to start taking me to AA meetings. I am an alcoholic and an addict so either NA or AA is fine with me, I just really want to get to a meeting! So welcome Scott. Glad to have you aboard. Have a great night!

Jaz

[ksos]

From Jaz:

Ultram (they say its non-narcotic, but I beg to differ, I was up to 10 of them a day and they weren't touching my pain, they just gave me a head buzz, so I took myself off those)

Jazzy...

If memory serves, Ultram or Tramadol metabolizes into a morphine derivitive once absorbed into the bloodstream and it is definitely a physically and psychologically addictive medication. I also read in the NY Times, about a year ago, that NY State was pushing for this medication to become a controlled substance, Schedule III, but it has not happened yet.

I had my little "fling" with this medication when I was prescribed it instead of codeine for a fractured finger about 2 years back. Boy, did I scream at my former PCP MD for "having the nerve' to not prescribe me a narcotic, but I had a party on those Ultrams, once I felt their effect. Also, there is a withdrawal syndrome--sort of like an Effexor-like feeling, if you do not carefully taper off of them.

BTW, Ultram is considered an abusable opiod by some medical authorities, although the general medical concensus remains that it is not. However, it appears to have the extremely dangerous side effects like seizures, euphoria, and even hallcinations. (See online data for Ultram online).

[NeedingHelp7]

I know I am a huge proponent of Pain Management and it is not what many people have assumed it is. While narcotic medication is used, it is highly regulated and anyone who is on a controlled scheduled II drug, is tested by Federal Law, at least every three months via toxicology.

ksos, I am shocked by this. My H ended on more narcs in pain management than from the pdoc. When his pdoc took him off hydro, detoxed him, put him on suboxone, then stopped prescribing hydro (I was so happy about this). He refered him to pain management only for him to go from a fentnyl patch to most recent percocet and avenza, then I found out (I wasn't happy about this). He is still on percocet for back pain.

He looked blasted on percocet and avenza together. How could he, and how could the Dr's prescribe that kind of load to a NA? Percocet or hydro alone is terrible for him.

And I never heard of toxicology reports being done every 3 months (which I think is a great idea), but maybe AH just didn't tell me that part.

NH7

[tiburon88]

I was told to take Ibuprofrin for my herniated disk. I was taking prescription strenght 800mg. It led to a bleeding ulcer. I now take a Vicadin here and there for the pain. It works for the pain & thats all I care about.

tib

[ksos]

Originally Posted by NeedingHelp7

ksos, I am shocked by this. My H ended on more narcs in pain management than from the pdoc. When his pdoc took him off hydro, detoxed him, put him on suboxone, then stopped prescribing hydro (I was so happy about this). He refered him to pain management only for him to go from a fentnyl patch to most recent percocet and avenza, then I found out (I wasn't happy about this). He is still on percocet for back pain.

He looked blasted on percocet and avenza together. How could he, and how could the Dr's prescribe that kind of load to a NA? Percocet or hydro alone is terrible for him.

And I never heard of toxicology reports being done every 3 months (which I think is a great idea), but maybe AH just didn't tell me that part.

NH7

Hi NH7,

I'm unsure as to which part of my quoted statement shocked you.

If it has to do with my statement of being a huge proponent of pain management, than let my qualify the statement to say that I am a huge proponent of appropriate pain management, whereby the treating MD is a pain management specialist who follows NY State Law by regularly performing toxicology tests on every patient who is on a scheduled II controlled substance. This is how my pain management MD conducts his practice and, since he knows I have a history of substance abuse, he tests me more often than once every three months, and has a contract in which I will be discharged from his practice if I am ever discovered to be using other opiates or illicit drugs. Moreover, I also see an addiction specialist which is a requirement of my treatment and also gives me more support. Most importantly, I have routine medical exams which are primarily focused on my medical condition which causes the pain. So, in a nutshell, an entire medical team is involved with this and I have conditions to remain in my pain management program.

From what you have reported about your H, I am more than shocked that any legitimate and trained licensed pain management MD would actually prescribe both Percocet as well as Avinza (Morphine Sulfate) to a person who is suffering from "back pain". I would truly question the veracity of your H in terms of this "referral", and ask to accompany him to this "medical doctor".

In my opinion, it just sounds like a very strange type of "pain" treatment, one which certainly differs from any type of treatment I ever experienced or even heard of.

Conversely, the Pdoc, who I assume is the primary care MD, seemed to have figured out what H was truly hurting from, and treated that "disease" rather appropriately.

My own addict self finds it difficult to imagine that someone who is being detoxed off of all the abusable opiates he was on, would be referred to a place where they would actually put him on stronger, and more addictive opiates. It makes little sense to me.

Maybe AH didn't tell you many parts of his true problem, either?

[ksos]

NH7...

I know it is difficult to deal with loved ones who are drug seekers or in the throes of the disease of addiction. I was one, and am always at risk for slipping back or relapsing to my many, many drugs of choice. I doctor shopped for years, and that was the only way I could ever acquire drugs like Morphine, Percocet, Demerol,, etc. at one time. Eventually, I got caught. Not by my ignorant and greedy MD who prescribed me quarts of liquid hydrocodone every other day, but by the various pharmacies who became suspicious of the amounts of narcotics I was prescribed, and by my work place, who found my "medication" in my desk draw.

Sadly, I do know of very greedy medical personnel who have the ability to write prescriptions for highly addictive drugs and do so without regard to their patients. I am losing a friend to the throes of addiction to prescribed Klonopin, Percocet and Morphine, which, by the way, are given to her under the ruse of "Pain Management". That is why I wrote what I think "real" Pain Management is and shared my thoughts with you. It is also why I do not believe your H's "story" for one second.

Allow me to ask you this. Deep down, doesn't the medication regimen our AH is prescribed sound a bit odd? That is all I am saying, and you will ultimately pay a price, too, that is, if you love or care about him. I hurt all of the people I loved by my misuse and lies about pain, about needing this drug or that drug, etc.

As an addict who used any means necessary to cop drugs, I can very readily identify with your H's behavior, because I believe he is an addict as well. It takes one to know one, even if my knowledge is based on a concerned other's report. You sound suspicious about his "treatment" as well you should. It is not Pain Management, as prescribed by law. It is simply an addict and his licensed dealer working out a "deal".

[NeedingHelp7]

If it has to do with my statement of being a huge proponent of pain management, than let my qualify the statement to say that I am a huge proponent of appropriate pain management, whereby the treating MD is a pain management specialist who follows NY State Law by regularly performing toxicology tests on every patient who is on a scheduled II controlled substance.

Thankyou Ksos. I haven't heard of the toxicollogy tests at all, but I only went to "pain management" Dr once with him, thats when I found out what meds he was on. This was during a pre-discogram appt. I was angry and never returned to the Dr with him again. He had to find another driver to/from discogram. AH has never mentioned toxicollogy tests (why would he tell me? right?)

From what you have reported about your H, I am more than shocked that any legitimate and trained licensed pain management MD would actually prescribe both Percocet as well as Avinza (Morphine Sulfate) to a person who is suffering from "back pain". I would truly question the veracity of your H in terms of this "referral", and ask to accompany him to this "medical doctor".

Yes. I was surprised by it as well. Due to that reason, I won't have anything to do w/ his heathcare appt's. I gave up seeing his Dr's w/ him 1 1/2 yrs ago, because I'm alway the one telling the Dr's he's not supposed to be on "those" meds. It's AH responsibility to tell Dr's. I can't do it anymore, it's too upsetting, and causes a lot of fights between him and I. It causes me to not trust him nor his Dr's care. I understand his pain, but I always believed there were alternative meds for him.

I am losing a friend to the throes of addiction to prescribed Klonopin, Percocet and Morphine, which, by the way, are given to her under the ruse of "Pain Management". That is why I wrote what I think "real" Pain Management is and shared my thoughts with you. It is also why I do not believe your H's "story" for one second.

This is sad, but it seems it happens often. Thankyou for expressing your honesty in the world of "pain management." Personally I think Dr's like that should be turned in. Families and patients are depending on Dr's for "good" medical care.

Allow me to ask you this. Deep down, doesn't the medication regimen our AH is prescribed sound a bit odd? That is all I am saying, and you will ultimately pay a price, too, that is, if you love or care about him. I hurt all of the people I loved by my misuse and lies about pain, about needing this drug or that drug, etc.

Yep....what worries us is that the "med drugs" can lead to street drugs for him, and vica versa.

AH says he is going to be getting the Precision Plus Spinal Cord Stimulation System, and suboxone next month. We'll see if it comes to pass. Hopefully.

Thankyou for your shared wisdom and experience ksos.

Praying all the best for you too,
NH7

[butterfly19]

scotts,

We've chatted here before on the forums, and I told you of my 5 year opiate addiction to Norco. So I won't repeat myself, except to say that I once tried detoxing with ultram which did not work for me. And ksos is absolutely right about ultram not being a controlled substance but that it definitely is metabolized into a narcotic.

Anyway, as I told you before, currently I'm on suboxone and am now down to 10 mg on my taper. For the first few weeks of taking it, I was in the most severe pain of my life. It was really my brain getting used to not having all those opiates attached to the receptors in my brain. The suboxone kicks those receptors out of the way and attaches itself in their place. Thus, the naloxone in it prevents you from getting high.

So, now nearly 2 months into suboxone treatment, yes, I still have a great deal of pain. I mostly just have to live with it. I take ibuprofen or any other NSAID throughout the day safely with food and Zantac to avoid stomach upset. I also was recently put on Lyrica, and I see you mentioned that you were tried on that before. It has truly helped me, and I have been more able to sleep at night. Perhaps, you didn't take it long enough or at a high enough dose. Currently, I'm only on 50 mg twice a day, one of the lower doseages. However, my pain is worsening again, and I'm considering asking if I can go up some on the doseage.

The plain truth of the matter is this scott (and it's not easy for me to say, b/c I used to hate hearing it myself): You are going to continue to have pain, no matter what. The physical problem isn't going to go away just b/c you are getting rid of the addiction. I think we tend to forget that at times. Some pain you have to buckle down and deal with. But there are ways to combat the pain, i.e., NSAIDS, neurological meds, depression meds, alternative treatments like meditation, gentle exercising, etc. . .

Also, and someone may have already pointed this out, the pain signals from neurotransmitters in your brain are exemplified when you are going through withdrawals. Something as minor as a stubbed toe, might feel like your whole foot was just cut off. Seriously, your brain gets very confused when it has been bombarded with narcotics in huge doses for years. Your pain receptors have to heal at their own rate and time. And they will.

I hope this has helped some. If you can't handle it anymore, scott, look into suboxone Buprenorphine (Suboxone Subutex) treatment and opioid addiction resources from The National Alliance of Advocates for Buprenorphine Treatment - NAABT - Home page It has helped me and many others. Maybe it is time to look for something else! Take care of yourself and keep in touch!

butterfly19

[ksos]

Originally Posted by NeedingHelp7

Thankyou Ksos. I haven't heard of the toxicollogy tests at all, but I only went to "pain management" Dr once with him, thats when I found out what meds he was on. This was during a pre-discogram appt. I was angry and never returned to the Dr with him again. He had to find another driver to/from discogram. AH has never mentioned toxicollogy tests (why would he tell me? right?)




Yes. I was surprised by it as well. Due to that reason, I won't have anything to do w/ his heathcare appt's. I gave up seeing his Dr's w/ him 1 1/2 yrs ago, because I'm alway the one telling the Dr's he's not supposed to be on "those" meds. It's AH responsibility to tell Dr's. I can't do it anymore, it's too upsetting, and causes a lot of fights between him and I. It causes me to not trust him nor his Dr's care. I understand his pain, but I always believed there were alternative meds for him.

This is sad, but it seems it happens often. Thankyou for expressing your honesty in the world of "pain management." Personally I think Dr's like that should be turned in. Families and patients are depending on Dr's for "good" medical care.


Yep....what worries us is that the "med drugs" can lead to street drugs for him, and vica versa.

AH says he is going to be getting the Precision Plus Spinal Cord Stimulation System, and suboxone next month. We'll see if it comes to pass. Hopefully.

Thankyou for your shared wisdom and experience ksos.

Praying all the best for you too,
NH7

NH7....

I was so afraid that I was a bit too animated in my response to you and that you were not returning here. You cannot imagine how glad I am that you not only returned, but seem to have already employed much of what I would have suggested, had you not done so a year or more back! You definitely are on the right track in separating your own self from the drama of the pain medicated person who is, in my opinion, not receiving pain management services, as defined by my own experiences.

You know what it is? I pulled much of the same stuff on my now ex-wife, as AH seems to be doing, but with one major difference. You are not buying the words and seem to want to wait until actions occur. My ex waited way too long, and despite her own mischieviousness in destroying our 17 year marraige, I certainly did my share of wreckage. Worse, was the effect that my behavior must have had on my child, who now does not speak or see me at all. It's 4 years and counting, and I hope that, in time, ammends can be made to her by me. I initially meant ammends to my child, but I owe my ex ammends, as well. I am still too bitter towards her basically kidnapping my child in the manner she did. But in some odd way, I almost can see why.

Meanwhile, I am hoping and praying that you do not have to endure the same level of havoc that substance abuse wrought on my family's life. For as much as I could blame my ex's infidelities, controlling behavior, and emotional detachment, I need to see where I played a role in perhaps creating an environment whereby there was no love for my spouse, a "nag" is not born, but made as she often said to me, and the last words she uttered prior to our physical and emotional separation forever were, "I did not marry you at 24 years old just so I could get divorced and be a single mother at age 40..." I have to somehow believe that is true. For my own sake and my child's sake. I just do not want that to happen to you and your family.

I said all of this simply because you need I think to prepare yourself for an eventual escape from AH's behavior. I do not know if you have children, but if you do and they are minors, you might find yourself in a situation whereby extremely difficult, very painful, and sometimes unforgivable decisions, may have to be made by the sober one in the relationship.

I wish you the very best, and I certainly hope that your H is somehow less of a junkie than I was and am. I tossed all of it away--everything. I hope he is not at that point, yet. But, he will get there if he does not arrest this disease, since there are only three outcomes, institutions, jail and death.

Bless you and him,

Ksos