Pain Management 'Step Meeting" ... ?

[barb dwyer]

No kidding -

I saw a flyer at the pharmacy for this - I was going to pick up a schedule but they were out. This was at the local pharmacy, so I could go back and check out about it...

It got me thinking, though - what good would a step meeting
be for pain?

Anyone ever do one of these?

[nandm]

Interesting concept. I have never heard of it. If you find any info on it I for one would be interested in hearing more.

[barb dwyer]

You know NandM ...

I was tempted to GO ... just to report back HERE what I found out- LOL!!!

I mean, when *I* think about it -

"We admitted we were powerless over our pain and our lives had become unmanageable."
ok. that one sounds viable.

"Came to believe that a Power Greater Than Ourseves could relieve us of our Pain."
ok. I'm game.

Third Step - no problem.

ok now - here's where I"d get hinkie .... FOURTH STEP.

shades of Louise Hay, ya know?

I think I will try to find out more about this.

I mean, make amends ... for pain?
I can see where you might need to go apologize to folks for being snappy on a bad day or something ...

it *is* a concept, tho isn't it?

[ksos]

Barb:

You know, I had a thought about PA about a week ago--but as mentioned, I wondered how a meeting like that would operate...I would love to see if you found that pamphlet and could share it<hopes, hopes, hopes!)

I love feeling the excitement around here! It is actually making me feel pretty darn good!

[barb dwyer]

hi Ksos!

I *am* excited about this new forum!!!!!

I've dealt with pain in varying (but constant) degrees for years and years.

I'm so excited about a place to come together and share notes and tips and alternatives!

OK then -

My days off are monday and hopefully tueaday of next week.
I'll go by the pharmacy and see if that poster is still up, and get a meeting time.
I think it was in a meeting room at the hopsital.

[serenityqueen]

I'll be waiting to see if you can get some info on that Barb.

You know, like so many other areas of my life, it was a great comfort to find out I wasn't the only one soooooo excited to have the opportunity to discuss pain mgt., on a healthy level, with friends in Recovery without the fear of someone trying to step in and "convince me" that it would be ok to take narcotic pain meds.

You know the mind games this disease can play on us,

"It' ok, it's a prescription for goodness sakes! There is no harm in taking medication that your Dr. prescribed for you. You NEED IT! You really do, you have a legitimate condition that . . . . .

That way of thinking kept me sick for tooooo many years. I don't even want to entertain that thought!

Thanks for letting me share!
Judy

[ksos]

Originally Posted by barb dwyer

hi Ksos!

I *am* excited about this new forum!!!!!

I've dealt with pain in varying (but constant) degrees for years and years.

I'm so excited about a place to come together and share notes and tips and alternatives!

OK then -

My days off are monday and hopefully tueaday of next week.
I'll go by the pharmacy and see if that poster is still up, and get a meeting time.
I think it was in a meeting room at the hopsital.

Barb....

I cannot believe that I must get ready for a job interview and promised myself that my previous post would be short and sweet and my final one of the afternoon, and yet I came here! I believe that I am also so excited about having this place to come together and share....

After you initially brought this thread up, I remembered that there are 12 step groups for sexual addictions, food addictions, gambling addictions, etc.

However, and this is a long shot I am taking here, the pain group would probably follow in the steps of AL-Anon, Narc-Anon, all of the ___anons, rather than NA or AA, only because "Pain" is not an addiction--I mean, not the pain we are talking about...However, it is something that we may have to surrender to....

I would venture to guess it may be a spiritually based step group, although I would bet that your first two steps that you posted, would be in this group.

From Barb's post;

"We admitted we were powerless over our pain and our lives had become unmanageable."
ok. that one sounds viable.

"Came to believe that a Power Greater Than Ourseves could relieve us of our Pain."
ok. I'm game.


I must jam now, before I end up selling my beloved collection of porceline pigs!

[jazpoppy]

Barb;

Sounds very interesting. Its a great idea to have a kind of support group for pain sufferers (I know there are support groups out there already). But I think maybe a pain support group in the fashion of AA, NA, Al-Anon, Nar-Anon would not be a bad idea. Especially a pain support group like this thread, for people suffering from pain and addiction and where pain management fits in your recovery. A face-2-face meeting of this sort would be so perfect! Let us know what you find out about this Pain Step Meeting.

If its not a pain in recovery meeting, maybe we could think about starting a Face-2-Face meeting of pain sufferers in recovery in our own home towns??? I know some people are NOT into public speaking or starting 'groups' because it can be such a challenge, but speaking to an AA or NA General Manager (I thinks that what they are called, a GM or GR, General Representative), would be an easier way to get something started. There may be more people willing to help then you might realize.

Thanks for this post.

Love

Jaz

[barb dwyer]

... I phoned the pharmacy to get the telephone # off the poster and learned it's not up any more.

SOOOOooooo.... I wonder if anyone signed up or if the group 'filled'.

Just thought y'all would want to know.

[The_Hammer]

Dear Barb,

I know that all of our stories are different, even though the pain and suffering are the same. I for one caused my family a great deal of pain in that they had no idea that I was abusing my pain meds and had been "sober and straight" for over 10 years. My wife told me at that time that she would leave me if I ever did dope again. And, voila, hear I am 10 years + down the road and strung out on opiates, wondering how I got there. I owe her a great big amends-right? I am not real sure that you can have a problem with pain-killers and not owe someone an apology. THe lies, the conning, the fact that you're not available emotionally, mentally or spiritually, let alone physically must say something about how far the dope reaches into our lives.

Just a thought.

[barb dwyer]

Hi Hammer -

I thought about that... also,
when in pain I tend to be snapish,
if not downright MEAN ...
and then blame it on hurting.

So it's defo something I've been thinking about.

I think whoever had the idea
had a GOOD idea.

[jazpoppy]

Barb;

I too get mean and snappy when I'm in pain. So does my bf, and my mother, and most everyone I know that has a chronic pain problem. Pain causes such physical discomfort and when its either not being treated right or not being treated at all, it takes a severe mental toll on us. Pain is one of the number one causes of depression. I know that when I have an arthritis attack or muscle cramping attacks, I am sometimes impossible to be around. Even with medication, if its not covering enough of it, I get so angry and yet also so sensitive to the things people say, or do. Its not their fault and I feel I owe them an apology, but most of the time, when I apologize they say "oh I know it wasn't you, its your pain, or its your depression." I still feel so bad about it. I think a face-2-face pain mgt. support meeting that we could go to would be so helpful. Doctors can only do so much to help us be comfortable, especially those of us in recovery from addiction. My doctor does the best she can, but if I had insurance I know I'd get better care too, that also drives me nuts. So I'm trying to get on Medicaid in my State. It takes time, but I look so forward to it. I am also going to look into finding a Chronic Pain support group, and if I can't find one, I may start one myself. My bf is a drug and alcohol counselor who also has some chronic pain issues (he is in recovery and has been for 15 years!), so he would be able to help me get a face-2-face group off the ground I hope. It all depends on who wants to participate. So, Barb, please give us as much info as you can if you can about this group in your area. Thanks again for this thread!

Love;

Jaz

[barb dwyer]

Every time I've ever seen this kind of thing it's run through the HOSPITAL ... and never turns out to be much. Because the hospital people do all the talking and well ... other than the ones in pain themselves - what do they really know?

The whole POINT of a twelve step kind of gourp, in MY little alcholic mind, is that it's run by PEERS ... people with the same affliction.

The really nice thing about both these gorups - is I *happen* to work at a hotel that has a meeitng room.

heh.

bout TIME that job turns up something other than a computer that I can do something positive with.

LOL

[Dee74]

I guess I can grasp the idea of making a searching and fearless moral inventory in this area of pain which would include the times I've been waspish or just downright grumpy, and then making amends.

But I already do that - it's already part of my recovery - not so much to stave off alcoholism, but to be the best person I can.

Bottom line is - I'm human - I'm not Gandhi - I'm in pain - sometimes I'm gonna be grouchy; other times I'll be a freakin' nice guy ...and when I'm wrong I'm usually man enough to admit it.

but I guess the support group part of it might be nice LOL - if that floats yer boat

D - 'does not play well with others'

[BUTTERFLY-7]

Pain When I Feel Pain it turns into hurt, then Anger,

[barb dwyer]

D - 'does not play well with others'

there's news.

[DesertEyes]

This is the way it works for me. I only change the "drug of choice", nothing else.

"2- Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity"

My HP is not going to relieve me of my pain. My HP relieves me of the _fear_ I have about the pain. Relieves me of the projection I do imagining the worst future, of the insane thinking that makes the pain get worse and worse. My HP gives me the serenity to calm my mind and reduce my own self-induced stress, which then makes it possible for me to think clearly and take the right actions to get help from the medical system.

"4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves"

An inventory is _both_ good and bad aspects of my character. In what areas do I find myself looking for pity from others? In what areas do I find myself improving my apreciation of life as a result of knowing how fragile it is? How has my experience with a terminal disease made me a _better_ person? Or a worse person?

"7 - Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings"

Remove from me the fear of dying, that I may live every day to it's fullest.
Remove from me the fear of appearing weak, that I may give others the opportunity to feel good by being of service.
Remove from the the fear of pain, that I may listen to the pain that others have in their lives.

Whadya think?

Mike

[ksos]

I really would like to see these concepts incorporated into the "PA" meeting. Mike, I think you are on to something really cool...:

"Remove from me the fear of dying, that I may live every day to it's fullest.
Remove from me the fear of appearing weak, that I may give others the opportunity to feel good by being of service.
Remove from the the fear of pain, that I may listen to the pain that others have in their lives."

Fear is so important in pain, at least for me. I fear that I look like a feeble man because of my pain; therefore I isolate. I think you hit that one, though with your last one.

But, I also am angry and resentful that I have pain--so, I am certain that someone here is savvy enough to put a step or principle in about "I will learn to recognize that my pain sometimes makes me angry and I will strive to not place this burden onto others?
Also, like addiction, pain can manifest in one becoming very preoccupied with one's own feeling state instead of focusing on another, more beneficial type of activity such as service or doing one good deed for someone other than myself????

Can we perhaps delve into other issues that we can control, even if our pain is intractable? Like, "I have come to believe that my pain is a feeling, but it is not a fact"

Actually, this was a technique that was used by a psychologist when I was detoxing from Klonopin in rehab, since I would be freaking out because of the horrific "feelings" that I was dying or going crazy, etc. She kept repeating to me that what I was experiencing was only a feeling and not a fact. While I cursed her out from the unit onto high heaven, it eventually became one of the best cognitive techniques I ever discovered--or rather, she taught me...

"I have determined that pain will no longer keep me from enjoying my loved ones"?

I dunno....I am too tired and I need Barb or Mike to make this sound better...

Or "I have decided that I will no longer allow Pain to keep me away from all of the things I love"

Oy Vey....

[ksos]

Oh My! Just wait until ya hear this one:

"I have come to accept that while I am or may be in pain, there are others who are in more pain than I am in."

WoW! That just shut me up, by george!

That is, in my opinion, a wonderful step or principle or something, unless someone already thought of it and I robbed their thunder--which is doubtful!

Okay, I am done for now....

[DesertEyes]

Originally Posted by ksos

... I dunno....I am too tired and I need Barb or Mike to make this sound better ...

* lol * don't look at me. I'm a hurting unit right now and I'm just trying to distract myself by hanging around here

Originally Posted by ksos

... She kept repeating to me that what I was experiencing was only a feeling and not a fact ...

ooooh I _like_ that. I never looked at it that way. I go thru all kinds of feelings when I hurt, to where I start getting them scrambled.

Originally Posted by ksos

... I fear that I look like a feeble man because of my pain; therefore I isolate. ...

yeah, me too. I went in for surgery this last Xmas and I was seriously spooked. I don't do well in surgery. Not at all well, and on top of that I was scared of how the meds would affect my addictive personality. So I did what I've always heard people say works for them. I shared my fear in a meet. In front of a room full of people. Just out and said I was scared outta my wits and would appreciate some phone numbers.

Whadya know, the biggest, baddest biker types in the meets were the ones who handed me their numbers, the ones who showed up at the hospital when things went horribly wrong, the ones who took me home and hung around for a week so my g/f could get some sleep. There was this one newbie, giant weight-lifter type, makes Ahnold look puny. He came up to me and said he was grateful to me for having the guts to admit fear, that it showed him that this recovery thing is the real deal and not some puff-piece. One ex-Navy Seal asked me to be his sponsor.

I never expected that.

"God, relieve me of the fear of being weak, that others may gain strength from my hardship"

Originally Posted by ksos

... pain can manifest in one becoming very preoccupied with one's own feeling state instead of focusing on another, more beneficial type of activity such as service or doing one good deed for someone other than myself???? ...

yup. Isn't that what we're doing right here, right now? We're being of service to each other, the 12 step way.

Mike

[ksos]

Mike...

I'll reply in more detail after I sleep, but I love the way you came full circle at the very end of your post...Was this your contribution to Pain Anonymous?

"God, relieve me of the fear of being weak, that others may gain strength from my hardship"

That's a keeper, for sure. BTW, for a "Hurtin' Unit", you sure are helping me the 12-step way with your 'ESH....

Have a terrific rest of the eve...I have to hit the hot hay in 102 degree heat!

[Dee74]

OK...you guys have turned my head on this 12 step pain thing...
(I'll order your medals tomorrow....LOL)

thanks

D

[NoelleR]

Well, I've just read through this thread a couple of times, and I'm still a bit confused.......Before I get to that though I have one thing that I feel I really, REALLY need to say.....it was written....: "...'I have come to believe that my pain is a feeling, but it is not a fact.'..." perhaps I'm not reading this correctly, or I'm misunderstanding it....to me that statement is saying that my pain is...all in my head?...I don't know about anybody else's pain, BUT My pain IS a FACT......? ......enough of that....now to the real reason for this post....

Okey-dokey now.....PA (Pain anonymous?)/Pain Management steps? I don't see the point of the steps....In AA I learned about my disease - Alcoholism, and learned that in order to recover I had to first admit and surrender to it --- Step 1. The rest of the steps (2-12) were a design for living for me to recover from alcoholism.....In NA Step 1 showed me my disease - Addiction, and I learned that I must admit and surrender to it and then....steps 2-12 showed me a design for living so that I could recover from my addiction.....

Just what would the purpose of the steps for PA/Pain Management be? I'm in full agreement of a support group for folks in recovery who need some kind of pain management (regardless of the form).....but steps....steps to where? -obviously, unlike AA/NA, where the destination of their steps is recovery from Alcoholism/Addiction, just what would the destination of these steps be....?

I hope I haven't offended anyone here.....like many others here on this forum, I live in constant, chronic pain.....I'd love to be able to manage my pain w/o meds, but after years of trying many different ways....the meds are the only things that allow me to function, and depending on how much I need to function on any given day, gauges just which meds I need, and how much.....grrrrr ...... anyway..... I guess I've spoken enough of my mind for a while.............. (o:


NoelleR

[Dee74]

did you like...read....the last couple of posts Noelle?


it still sounds good to me...

we can only do so much with the pain itself but we can always do something about the feelings we get that come from that pain...whether it be fear, or anger or whatever...

that's what mike seemed to be on about with reference to fear and what ksos seemed to be talking about with the feelings not fact bit...to my mind anyway

but hey? whaddo I know - I'm a rabbit...

D

[NoelleR]

Originally Posted by Dee74

did you like...read....the last couple of posts Noelle?


it still sounds good to me...

we can only do so much with the pain itself but we can always do something about the feelings we get that come from that pain...whether it be fear, or anger or whatever...

that's what mike seemed to be on about with reference to fear and what ksos seemed to be talking about with the feelings not fact bit...to my mind anyway

but hey? whaddo I know - I'm a rabbit...

D

Yes, I did read the last couple of posts....I read 'all' the posts, multiple times even....I just don't get it....the feelings we get that come from that pain....? Sorry....just don't gettit...all I get from my pain is 'it hurts' 'I can't move' no feelings of fear or anger or whatever.....just pain.....guess I'll just leave all this (feelings 'n fear 'n anger 'n whatever)to y'all.....I've gotten to manage my pain pretty well over the years; of course, as I get older, some of the pains get worse.....but manageable.....(o:


NoelleR