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06-10-2008, 09:18 PM
| #26 (permalink) | ||||
| Starting over  Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Skin city
Posts: 2,055
| Hey there Noelle  Quote:
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"The serenity to accept the things I cannot change" which for me is my pain and my chronic condition. Quote:
Am I making sense? Mike | ||||
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__________________ Sunsets are not endings. If I have enough faith, they are beginnings. | |||||
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06-10-2008, 09:49 PM
| #27 (permalink) |
| grouch  Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: far out.
Posts: 7,683
| don't stay away Noelle - your views and your experience is just as valid and useful as anyone elses I might even try and keep my smart ass mouth shut sometimes  D |
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__________________ No More Groundhog Day!!  Never argue with an idiot: they'll drag you down to their level - and beat you with experience.... | |
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06-10-2008, 11:31 PM
| #28 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 454
|  Ahhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhahhhhhh ----- I thinki I gettit now....we're on the same page(s), just perhaps in a different space/time continuum [ (o: ] I'm reminded of a time....oh, about 10 years ago when my doctor and I were trying to figure out where my pain was coming from, all the while fighting with the insurance company that didn't want to pay for tests untill I jumped through some hoops for them......grrrrrrrr In the end it was kinda funny....I was speaking to a friend in California, who also has back problems, and when I got all the tests back, I asked her to guess what was 'right' with my back......gottit....? the answer is.....NOTHING! Then came trying out different combinations of meds that would keep the pain down (I have a might high pain tolerance, so this was a job all on its own), or tolerable at least, yet still allow me to work.....gotta pay da bills.....to keep the good ole insurance company.....hehehehehe Along with all the pain meds, heart meds, cholesteral meds, etc. (it shore ain't fun gettin old....grrrr), my doctor also got me a small script for amitriptylin (50mg)to be taken at bedtime (1-2). These would serve two purposes..... 1) since they are a stress reliever--muscle-relaxor, I would wake up without too much stiffness; and 2) they're also a mood-enhancer to help me not get too depressed as the truth sank in......: this was as good as it was gonna get. Well....I stopped those trips pretty quick.....they made me sleep too long; 12 hours minimum....and besides, I've always been the kind of person who accepts life on life's terms, whatever those terms might be.....even when I was drinking and drugging. No depression for me.....I always figured life was too short to worryin bout stuff over which I have no control....lol Anyway.....just wanted to post a bit more....me the cockeyed optimist 'n all, and yes I can see that your destination is a good place to go for....cu there! (o: NoelleR |
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06-11-2008, 08:39 AM
| #29 (permalink) |
| same planet...different world  Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: butte mt
Posts: 7,002
| wow. y'all been busy, I see... *g* hi everyone! You know - I called the hospital yesterday, looking for these meetings and they of course didn't know a thing about it. any of it. The thyroid group that's supposed to be meeting at the hospital ... doesn't... so that's back 'ON' as far as I'm concerned. I'd like to meet the person who tried to start the step pain meeting - I think the inner discipline learned in recovery is directly applicable to pain and chronic pain. I like this discussion, too. As far as 'believed a HP could relieve me of the suffereing' - sure - Why not? I mean, even IF the pain continues, the direct relationship with a Power Greater than myself is a relief from pain. And being at the EFFECT of the pain. And being grouch because OF the pain. Hurting others just because I happen to be hurting .... And having pain direct what I can and can NOT do. Don't you think? I watched an interesting Oprah show yesterday - she had a woman diagnosed with cancer who is living with dying, and that fella who gave the last lecture. Both of them and their message made my own situation slip into a more ... realistic viewpoint. It's a change of perspective I think we most need, more than a change of physical condition, at least primarily. I think the change of condition comes AFTER a perspective change. The Twelve Steps, when worked for real DO initiate true change. I am living typing proof of that. It's a great directive for inner and exterior change ... so why wouldn't it work? Hopefully, this person will show up at the other meeting I've got in mind. Now that I don't work at the hotel any more, however - I'll havef to decide on a meeting place. But I got to thinking - I quit that job. I got a letter in the mail from the IRS saying more money is on the way. Enough for another month's rent, and utilities. I saw this program on Oprah... and it affected me. I think there's a message being sent here, and I promised the Infinite I'd be alert to kind messages. (mostly to avoid the cosmic 2 X 4 across the head) So I called the clinic this morning - they're gonna call me back. It's time for the first 'howya doon?' checkup after diagnosis, but I'm gonna bring this topic up as well. I can get a room at another hotel. They don't usually charge for this kind of thing. Glad to see everyone is hanging in - I think of you often!!! |
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__________________  objects in mirror are closer than they appear | |
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06-11-2008, 06:49 PM
| #30 (permalink) |
| God's Kid  Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: New Zealand
Posts: 563
| Steps meeting for pain I have read this thread with interest and my first thought was 'step' as in that type of excercise. You know, the one with the platform type of thing and you step on and off it.... Dunno if anyone else thought this, or if the flyer did actually refer to the 12 steps. I also thought this because most medical professionals seem to think excercise is great for pain. I still haven't figured out how that one works, either. However I'm also unsure how one could apply the 12 steps soley to pain management, since it has also been pointed out the steps are actually a program for living. "Pain managment" itself could easily fit into the 12th step wording 'and to practise these principals in all our affairs.' One of our 'affairs' for people suffering pain, is pain management. I would tread gentle too because pain management seriously affects peoples emotional, mental and all round general health, just like this forum suggest we don't give each other medical advice. I think the tendency for one to seek or supply medical advice would be rather strong using a name like Pain Anon since most 12 steps involve giving up something but pain management is more about acting responsibily and is between oneself and one's doctor. But what I think would be a great idea would be to start a 'special interest group' for the fellowship they already belong to. Because at that kinda meeting it would be natural to discuss how one applies these principals to living with their illnesses and it's outcomes. Just like AA/NA/Al Anon etc.. have gay/mens/womens meetings. One could easily start a group for the 'medically challenged.' These are my thoughts. In my country though there are not a lot of medically challenged peoples in recovery, so if anyone does start one make sure you've an online verision.  |
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__________________ ....blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.    | |
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06-12-2008, 05:50 PM
| #31 (permalink) | |
| Waiting For Engines  Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: brooklyn, new york
Posts: 545
| Quote:
Hi Noelle, You have not offended me in the least, as I was the one who wrote that "step" about "pain as a feeling, not as a fact". Please bear in mind that, as a fellow sufferer of chronic pain (Pancreatitis), I "feel" that my pain is intolerable and also "feel" that it has an enormous negative impact on my quality of life... When I said "Pain as a feeling", I suppose it may have come off as that I was proposing the notion that "Pain is not real." Nothing can be further from the truth, and I want you to know that from a fellow pain sufferer. Pain is considered a "feeling" state by many. Hospitals, as an example, now must ask patients "How bad is your pain on a scale of 1 to 10." It is law, at least in New York City. In a sense, pain is viewed, at least in this sense, and in the NY medical community, as a subjective feeling state. I believe that, while pain may be considered subjective, it is real, and by no means would I minimize anyone's pain. However, there are other ways to control pain and for the purposes of this "PA" step meeting, my contribution to this topic was just a "step" that would use a cognitive-behavioral approach, which actually has a huge following in the pain management field. I just thought it just might help some people cope a bit better with their pain state, which is the only reason I suggested it... I'll be very brief in my response to your "real reason" for your post. I do believe that 12 step meetings are extremely effective forums that have been proven to help people change behavioral states. Insofar as addiction is concerned, the statistics bear me out on the success rate of AA and NA participants attaining protracted periods of sobriety. I would ask myself if this type of forum is so successful in dealing with addictive behaviors as well as helping those who are "victims" of the addict's behavior, than why not at least, think of a 12 step or some type of forum like a step program for pain patients or pain sufferers, to participate in? At the very least, perhaps it will help a chronic sufferer of pain, cope better with their own unique experience of pain. At the very best, I think it would be wonderful to have a forum whereby one can participate in and be of service to others who have the same condition of pain. Sort of like "one addict helping another", it would take on, on my view, the concept of "One sufferer of pain helping another sufferer in pain." Without narcotics. That's all I meant to imply. However, I certainly am glad that you did raise the issues you did, for in the back of my mind, I did think about the same things as you did.  | |
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__________________ Ksos "If Enough people Call You A Duck, You Better Start Quacking." | ||
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| The Following User Says Thank You to ksos For This Useful Post: | Dee74 (06-12-2008)
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06-13-2008, 05:48 AM
| #32 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3
| Sobriety and chronic pain: newbie to forum: I am new to the forum. I've been sober 22 years, great life etc. I blew my back out last Sept., and now have like chronic arthritis throughout my body, and feel honestly 20 years older than last year. I got off all my pain meds after the epidurals, etc, and now take 1-2 ultram per day, which acutally really help me tremendously. I do get a "kick" from them though, and I have many years of drug addiction in my past, so this is concerning me now. Yes, how to live with chronic pain, live in sobriety etc, and not live in guilt, that is the question..... thanks everyoing |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to jlm86 For This Useful Post: | ksos (06-13-2008)
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06-13-2008, 06:08 AM
| #33 (permalink) | |
| Waiting For Engines Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: brooklyn, new york
Posts: 545
|  Quote:
Welcome to this forum and to Sober Recovery in general. It is funny, but my first instinct was to say, "Wow, you are getting relief and you feel guilty?" However, as the addict in me did, I "overlooked" the part where you say you get a "kick" from the ultram as well. I also "skimmed" over the part of your "history", albeit 22 years of sobriety which you should be commended for. At the same time, 22 years can also evaporate as someone with 52 days, and I believe we have all seen this happen in one way or another. Yes, how we manage to negotiate our pain conditions with medications that do have added effects such as euphoria, a feeling of wellness, etc... May I be so bold as to ask you if you are more concerned about the "kick" you are getting from the medication, or are you a bit concerned about a more serious relapse, like one which may rob you of that terrific life you have right now? Keep on posting, for this forum is exactly for folks with these concerns. For me, my first "taste" of a narcotic occured when I was 11 years old, and I was prescribed Demerol by my pediatrician for a broken arm, which most kids sustain in childhood. I loved it, instead, and began complaining to my opiate naive pediatrician that my pain was not going away....I was prescribed more and more.... So, anything that gives a "kick" may end up kicking one in the a$$.... Thanks for your post!  | |
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__________________ Ksos "If Enough people Call You A Duck, You Better Start Quacking." | ||
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06-13-2008, 06:37 AM
| #34 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3
| chronic pain:tramadol thanks so much. Yes, the mental thing really messes with me, i am active in service work with juveniles, as i have a great alling in this area, going to jail etc each week. So now I have this chronic body pain that has rocked my little world, and so far I am able to "manage" with extra str. tylenol and 1-2 tramadol per day. I do get that feeling of "well being", which has strong recalls as we all now to euphoria etc. The addict/alcoholic in me definitely is not cured. My work with sponsees continues, and i guess the guilt is optional. My prayer life now has included "God, allow me to live with pain", as I think many of us do not deal with pain very well. And of course being accountable is a very key component to living in this sober life. thanks for allowing me to share... awesome life~ |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to jlm86 For This Useful Post: | ksos (06-13-2008)
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06-13-2008, 07:11 AM
| #35 (permalink) |
| Waiting For Engines Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: brooklyn, new york
Posts: 545
| From jlm 86: "My prayer life now has included "God, allow me to live with pain", as I think many of us do not deal with pain very well." In my humble opinion, if we are discussing a "self-help forum" for pain sufferers, this is a primary tenet which, for me, would help so much. I know I am in horrible pain. Yet, within a spiritual vein, have I truly every reached out and asked that question? I do not know if I have when my pain is tolerable, which it is when I am medicated. It is like the times when I used to feel like I was dying from doing too much cocaine or bad cut cocaine, and my heart was bouncing out of its hole...I prayed to the Lord, "Please let me live...I will never do this again." Yeah, right, until the next line... But that is my point. If we were to start an online forum--someone mentioned this a few posts back--an idea, I mean, of creating this on our own (my words, perhaps?), this is something that is directly related to a spiritual foundation and would slide in quite nicely to a self help forum. And you are not the only one whose addict/alcoholic is uncured. In fact, isn't the premise of the 12 Steps or disease model that we are never cured, but we are in a state of manageable recovery? Or am I missing your point? Or am I completely wrong about Recovery? PS: I never post this much in one day! I suppose I am thrilled that I can relax today and reflect on my week of frenetic activity.... |
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__________________ Ksos "If Enough people Call You A Duck, You Better Start Quacking." | |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to ksos For This Useful Post: | barb dwyer (06-15-2008)
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06-14-2008, 06:40 PM
| #37 (permalink) |
| Member  Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: md
Posts: 953
| Yeah, I kinda agree w/Noelle here. I can imagine a group for pain med addiction, but not for pain. How does one work on "quitting" pain? I've had a lot of exper. with hospital folk blaming the victim when I've come in with real pain from migraine (not that anyone here has done that). One thing I've never done is abuse the ER. I've only gone when in true pain emergency, sweating, crying from the migraine, balled up in the fetal position, unable to drive, throwing up, nothing to do with my addiction. I've had migraines for a lot longer than I ever had a struggle with drugs. So I don't know how going to a meeting would help with that. I don't ever blame folks for what they say when in real severe pain, they aren't really in control then, and neither am I. Give yourselves a break, I say, on that score. I've plenty of addiction problems, but I'm sure not addicted to pain, I've never craved that! Some type of coping or support meeting would be ok, but me, personally, I don't want them to use the "Anonymous" label on it or associate it with the twelve steps because I think they are already too into blaming the victim in pain at medical facilities. Just my 2 cents. kj |
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06-15-2008, 08:44 AM
| #39 (permalink) | |
| Waiting For Engines Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: brooklyn, new york
Posts: 545
|  Quote:
KJ... I definitely hear you and respect all of what you are saying, since most people would say that pain really bites. I would much rather be fishing than forgetting my monthly methadone Rx at the pharmacy yesterday, and now, being 2 days without the one thing I have come to rely on for pain control. But this is one time where I might benefit from a "Pain" forum. I do not have my pills, I am scared of withdrawal setting in, I am angry at myself for just not showing up to the pharmacy, and now, have to endure a frenetic and difficult journey to the pharmacy--in pain. I think that if one was to think of this entire concept's purpose as "quitting pain", than I agree with you and Noelle. I think what some of us were trying to conceptualize, was the notion of managing the experience of pain in the "best" way possible. No one here is addicted to pain, but some of us may be, myself definitely included, rather "fixed" in our reactivity to pain. Therefore, what can possibly be wrong in trying to modify our reactions and/or perceptions to pain in a 12-step mode, or another modality completely? That is the only thing I believe is different in the two perspectives? Maybe I am missing the boat, which would not be the first time. Also, many of the hypothetical "steps" discussed, would assist the pain sufferer in "giving themselves a break"... Maybe it is the name of this forum which is bothersome? | |
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__________________ Ksos "If Enough people Call You A Duck, You Better Start Quacking." | ||
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