Sober Vapers Part 2
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,822
Yeah , has been kinda quiet in these parts as of late. I'm still truckin along with my kit(s) , around 25 joules/watts and 6 mg.
lovinit sorry to hear about problems/irritation , the only thing I experienced in a negative light was after about a year of vaping I developed a case of sores in my mouth. Seemed like a rapid onset, I had just started using a heavily cinnamon flavored ejuice and bang, stopped using ejuices with that flavor and haven't experienced since, and it went away rather quickly.
I have read that the ph level of the mouth changes after stopping cigarettes and canker sores can be the result, I don't know if the flavor caused the problem but so far I am chalking it up to that.
Hope you can find a solution and can put the 'sticks' away.
My son has started building his own coils , his favorite right now is a single .5ohm coil that he fires at 23-25 , he had to get 3mg because the 6 he had made him woozy , lol.
lovinit sorry to hear about problems/irritation , the only thing I experienced in a negative light was after about a year of vaping I developed a case of sores in my mouth. Seemed like a rapid onset, I had just started using a heavily cinnamon flavored ejuice and bang, stopped using ejuices with that flavor and haven't experienced since, and it went away rather quickly.
I have read that the ph level of the mouth changes after stopping cigarettes and canker sores can be the result, I don't know if the flavor caused the problem but so far I am chalking it up to that.
Hope you can find a solution and can put the 'sticks' away.
My son has started building his own coils , his favorite right now is a single .5ohm coil that he fires at 23-25 , he had to get 3mg because the 6 he had made him woozy , lol.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 639
Hello, sorry about my delayed response. Chief, if you are still around- I got the Uwell Crown tank! Recommend that one, you probably already know about it, it's my best vaping experience so far. It has a .25 coil that just drips with flavor at 90 watts and a nickel coil I am vaping right now which is starting to break in. I recommend it to you as well dwtbd, it'd be great compliment to your mod as well. It does have an RBA which is sold seperately and I don't own it but I've heard mixed reviews.
Anyway, lovingit, like I said these were odd. When I first started vaping I had these miscellaneous aches and pains, like muscle cramps and then got sidelined by a bad cold with a high fever for an evening. I was told at the time that was part of the Nicotine detoxification process. A few months ago, I was sub ohming pretty hard. Chain-vaping this Aspire Atlantis at 70-80 watts every day. Suddenly I became really ill. High fever with the chills and pain in my left side every time I took a breath. Honestly thought it was either my lungs from the vaping or pancreas from my years of alcohol abuse. It hurt to breath for about 48 hours and I was coughing up blood for a few days. Eventually, thankfully! after about 5 days it went away. Haven't had a problem since but I'd never experienced anything like that before. And it may not be at all vape related. Actually I've had more intense bouts of illness sober than when I was drinking. Guess like the hangovers, I just got used to feeling like death warmed over 24/7 so maybe I didn't really notice if I had a legitimate virus in my system. Glad to be a sober non-smoker today!!
Anyway, lovingit, like I said these were odd. When I first started vaping I had these miscellaneous aches and pains, like muscle cramps and then got sidelined by a bad cold with a high fever for an evening. I was told at the time that was part of the Nicotine detoxification process. A few months ago, I was sub ohming pretty hard. Chain-vaping this Aspire Atlantis at 70-80 watts every day. Suddenly I became really ill. High fever with the chills and pain in my left side every time I took a breath. Honestly thought it was either my lungs from the vaping or pancreas from my years of alcohol abuse. It hurt to breath for about 48 hours and I was coughing up blood for a few days. Eventually, thankfully! after about 5 days it went away. Haven't had a problem since but I'd never experienced anything like that before. And it may not be at all vape related. Actually I've had more intense bouts of illness sober than when I was drinking. Guess like the hangovers, I just got used to feeling like death warmed over 24/7 so maybe I didn't really notice if I had a legitimate virus in my system. Glad to be a sober non-smoker today!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,945
Tried to go from 2.4 to 0 in a month. I went crazy with my appetite started chewing nicotine gum and smoking 0ml. Well I'm back to 12ml 1,2 nicotine seems strong now down half in a month better then nothing.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,822
Brian316
Thx for the suggestion, I'll look into that tank. Still liking my kangertechs, I may get a handmeup from son in his atlantis2 , I saw VaporShark had nic coils for that tank so they should work with my sxmini in TC. Love my mini, but the paint has begun to chip off , gives a nice rugged look,lol, probably scrape it all off and get a Skinz soon
vape on !
Dx
what kind of equipment do you use? And what power settings? My wife made the switch to tanks that use 1.2 ohm coils and fires her device at 20 watts and went to .6 or 6mg nicotine level "seamlessly", it seems most people lower their level of nicotine as they move"up" in power .
Thx for the suggestion, I'll look into that tank. Still liking my kangertechs, I may get a handmeup from son in his atlantis2 , I saw VaporShark had nic coils for that tank so they should work with my sxmini in TC. Love my mini, but the paint has begun to chip off , gives a nice rugged look,lol, probably scrape it all off and get a Skinz soon
vape on !
Dx
what kind of equipment do you use? And what power settings? My wife made the switch to tanks that use 1.2 ohm coils and fires her device at 20 watts and went to .6 or 6mg nicotine level "seamlessly", it seems most people lower their level of nicotine as they move"up" in power .
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 291
Hey folks, yeah, still around, still a happy vaper, just been busy.
Dwtbd, if I may quote myself...
I solved it with a skin too as you probably know.
Not buying any new gear for the moment, and every "hype liquid" I tried plainly sucked (for me) - Adirondack juices excepted. I'll just continue to make my own.
Net savings now passed the $10,000 mark which blows my mind.
Dwtbd, if I may quote myself...
Keep a close eye to your paint. The problem should have been fixed by now, but you never know how long the B&M had it. Yihi is aware, so if it starts to peel off, your shop should be able to do a swap.
I solved it with a skin too as you probably know.
Not buying any new gear for the moment, and every "hype liquid" I tried plainly sucked (for me) - Adirondack juices excepted. I'll just continue to make my own.
Net savings now passed the $10,000 mark which blows my mind.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,822
Chief , yeah I remembered your warning about the finish , thought I had a good one until I didn't , lol. It's not really a big deal, I'm a great customer to have rarely go out of my way to have things fixed even if it's really their fault. Still a great device aside from the battery cap, that could/should be way better, threads are too fine or something. If I don't look at what I'm doing I get it to start , lol.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 291
That battery cap is evil, I tell you. It plays mind games. Sometimes it goes on with total ease three times in a row, so you go "hmmm, it's not so bad is it?" And then it strikes and you find yourself swearing at the dogs for looking at you while you are doing a dance, cursing the damn thing after not wanting to catch or getting stuck for the 15th time. 
Oh, and yeah, I'm an easy customer as well. The hassle of sending it back blah... ordering a wrap was a lot easier.
Still, would buy it again, absolutely.
Oh, and yeah, I'm an easy customer as well. The hassle of sending it back blah... ordering a wrap was a lot easier.
Still, would buy it again, absolutely.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 291
BTW, maybe you already saw this - hard to look past it - but Public Health England - the highest level state organisation in England - has issued a report that is overwhelmingly positive for vaping. I had expected and predicted this, as there are quite a few level headed scientists in England, a few people in government willing to listen, and an active advocacy scene, but I had no idea the report would would be so positive. They even replicated the "95% safer than smoking" number that I had already talked about, a number that comes from a study led by David Nutt. (who might be familiar to you as he has a few things to say about alcohol as well). Now, this number has to be seen in context and not as an absolute.
The short of it can be read on Clive Bates blog here, and links to the full report can be found there too. So if you are in doubt that vaping is killing you, or need some ammo to counter people nagging you about it, you might want to send them a link to this information.
Mind you, like with any report - even if it seems to be on "your side" - you can question some of the conclusions, and some are already doing just that for less than honest reasons, but overall I judge it to be pretty much on the mark. Read and relax.
The short of it can be read on Clive Bates blog here, and links to the full report can be found there too. So if you are in doubt that vaping is killing you, or need some ammo to counter people nagging you about it, you might want to send them a link to this information.
Mind you, like with any report - even if it seems to be on "your side" - you can question some of the conclusions, and some are already doing just that for less than honest reasons, but overall I judge it to be pretty much on the mark. Read and relax.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 639
Hey Chief (or anyone else that wants to chime in), I need your input on something. I am going to be purchasing a high end mod in the next month or so. I really had my heart set on a DNA200 mod (Vaporshark or the Hcigar, possibly the Lavabox). But now I am considering something along the lines of the SX Mini. Something with the Yihi chip. I don't know if you are familiar with the Boxer mod, but they have one that uses that chip and it's very nice. I really don't build or use RDA's much. I pretty much vape tanks with stock nickel coils. The DNA 200 has some downsides (short battery life for one) and I'm wondering if maybe something like the boxer mod or even an SX Mini might be more up my alley instead of the DNA 200. I traded the IPV4 for a Sigelei 75 out of safety concerns with the IPV. What do you suggest? Do you think DNA200 is the be all end all of vaping right now or would you suggest something with the yihi chipset?Anyone familiar with temp control mods, feel free to chime in. Thank you!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 291
That Boxer mod looks quite nice and sturdy, not sure if it's my thing though.
OK, I know for sure that the 350J is an excellent chip. It hasn't missed a beat since I got it, no strange behavior, lockups, switching out of TC mode etc. The upgrades do work (after a bit of fiddling) and for me the Titanium mode is almost perfect.
Despite problems with the paint on my first Mini M, I actually just received a second one 4 minutes ago. It's the pink one (ooohhhh!!! ), and I got it at the reduced price of 124 EUR (instead of 199) which is a steal. I can see that the paint job on this is superior to my first one, so that only leaves the sometimes moody battery cap as a downside.
The DNA200 is a nerd's dream. It does actually produce a true 200W (none of the others come close), and that is the reason why it works on a Li-po pack. They did allow for a "downtuned" version using two 18650's and giving a true 133W. So far so good, but...
1) I hear from several beta testers that they still have issues and strange bugs - just like with the DNA40. On the other hand, they do provide USB firmware updates, so these issues may be resolved later on
2) LiPo packs are fine when used properly, but they react violently when something goes wrong. (yes, even more than an 18650). Most of the time, you will be fine though, it shouldn't scare you, but you need to be aware.
3) I'm not sure what you heard about the battery capacity, but most probably it was wrong. A 900mAh 3S Lipo gives out 11.1 volt nominally - whereas an 18650 gives 2500mAh (give or take) at 3.7 volts. When calculated back to Watt/Hours, the 900mAh Li-Po actually gives about 10% bigger capacity than a single 2500mAh 18650. Further more, they are also more efficient, have less internal resistance, and can support up to 40 (or even more) Amps continuous (whereas a single decent 18650 gives 20 amps - the only one that gives 30 Amps is the Sony VTC4 (not the VTC5). TL;DR: battery live is not a problem unless you vape at 150 or 200W continually, but that seems obvious to me.
4) While they are safe to charge inside the mod, there is no quick swapping; you will need to charge it inside the mod.
5) It only starts to actually work properly when you download the eScribe software and start tweaking it. For example, titanium is not supported out of the box - you need to create a profile for it and upload that to the mod. Another example: out of the box it does try to send 200W as preheat to your coil - even if you have set it at 30W or so, often giving you a weird taste. Sure, with eScribe you can fix that preheat. You can do 1001 things with that software - it's impressive - but is that really your thing, or do you just want to vape hassle free - as you stated?
Personally, I'm not impressed and miss the "wow" factor. It's like buying a kit car when you want a good car to commute and transport your groceries.
To make matters even more complicated: Yihi have just announced (like 2 days ago) the Mini ML version; same enclosure, but with a new chip/board that will provide support for silver, gold, stainless steel etc. No idea when it will arrive, but it probably means no more firmware updates for the Mini M. (grrrr.)
My advice: start looking for incredible deals on the Mini M (like I just did), unless you really need that 200W or love the tinkering. Also: the Mini M will only give you 50J in Ni mode (and 75J in Ti1 mode) - whereas the Boxer will allow for 150. Only buy the M if you can find such a deal though. Look around for coupon codes for this as well.
Extra tip: I just got a Yihi silicon sleeve for the Mini M, and it looks and feels pretty great for $7.
OK, I know for sure that the 350J is an excellent chip. It hasn't missed a beat since I got it, no strange behavior, lockups, switching out of TC mode etc. The upgrades do work (after a bit of fiddling) and for me the Titanium mode is almost perfect.
Despite problems with the paint on my first Mini M, I actually just received a second one 4 minutes ago. It's the pink one (ooohhhh!!!
), and I got it at the reduced price of 124 EUR (instead of 199) which is a steal. I can see that the paint job on this is superior to my first one, so that only leaves the sometimes moody battery cap as a downside.The DNA200 is a nerd's dream. It does actually produce a true 200W (none of the others come close), and that is the reason why it works on a Li-po pack. They did allow for a "downtuned" version using two 18650's and giving a true 133W. So far so good, but...
1) I hear from several beta testers that they still have issues and strange bugs - just like with the DNA40. On the other hand, they do provide USB firmware updates, so these issues may be resolved later on
2) LiPo packs are fine when used properly, but they react violently when something goes wrong. (yes, even more than an 18650). Most of the time, you will be fine though, it shouldn't scare you, but you need to be aware.
3) I'm not sure what you heard about the battery capacity, but most probably it was wrong. A 900mAh 3S Lipo gives out 11.1 volt nominally - whereas an 18650 gives 2500mAh (give or take) at 3.7 volts. When calculated back to Watt/Hours, the 900mAh Li-Po actually gives about 10% bigger capacity than a single 2500mAh 18650. Further more, they are also more efficient, have less internal resistance, and can support up to 40 (or even more) Amps continuous (whereas a single decent 18650 gives 20 amps - the only one that gives 30 Amps is the Sony VTC4 (not the VTC5). TL;DR: battery live is not a problem unless you vape at 150 or 200W continually, but that seems obvious to me.
4) While they are safe to charge inside the mod, there is no quick swapping; you will need to charge it inside the mod.
5) It only starts to actually work properly when you download the eScribe software and start tweaking it. For example, titanium is not supported out of the box - you need to create a profile for it and upload that to the mod. Another example: out of the box it does try to send 200W as preheat to your coil - even if you have set it at 30W or so, often giving you a weird taste. Sure, with eScribe you can fix that preheat. You can do 1001 things with that software - it's impressive - but is that really your thing, or do you just want to vape hassle free - as you stated?
Personally, I'm not impressed and miss the "wow" factor. It's like buying a kit car when you want a good car to commute and transport your groceries.
To make matters even more complicated: Yihi have just announced (like 2 days ago) the Mini ML version; same enclosure, but with a new chip/board that will provide support for silver, gold, stainless steel etc. No idea when it will arrive, but it probably means no more firmware updates for the Mini M. (grrrr.)
My advice: start looking for incredible deals on the Mini M (like I just did), unless you really need that 200W or love the tinkering. Also: the Mini M will only give you 50J in Ni mode (and 75J in Ti1 mode) - whereas the Boxer will allow for 150. Only buy the M if you can find such a deal though. Look around for coupon codes for this as well.
Extra tip: I just got a Yihi silicon sleeve for the Mini M, and it looks and feels pretty great for $7.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 639
Chief, thank you for the information! What you said really helped to put it into perspective for me. Especially the analogy of getting a kit car to get groceries lol. No, I know what you are saying! I really bought into the hype of the DNA200 and now that I've gotten some information and seen some reviews, I am not sure if it would be my thing.
I don't mind tinkering, like with the temp control- matching the temperature with the joules to get that perfect flavor and doing it for different coils and different juices. I don't mind that, but sometimes I do find it a little tedious. Looking at that Escribe software, that does seem like alot. I'm sure you've seen The Vapor Chronicles on youtube? He does a tutorial on Escribe. What you were saying- with having to adjust that to stop it from throwing out 200 watts right away and add settings for titanium, etc. I don't know if I'd be down for all that. I think it's very cool from customization standpoint. With the lipo battery, I'm still not sure. I get about 2 and 1/2 hours vaping a single 18650 on that Sigelei 75 in temp mode. So I would get just a little more than that with this 900 mAh lipo? Having true 200 watts is a selling point, but would I use them? I have one RDA and I don't use it that often. The highest wattage I'll take a tank is 120 (The Crown) and I don't do that on a regular basis either.
It almost seems like I may have bought into alot of hype with the DNA 200 and this 350J is the real deal. I know some of how to tinker with it based on my IPV4 experience (although I know it's not exactly the same) and I also like the soft, powerful etc. setting options.
Now your SX Mini, that's a single 18650 right? How much life do you get out of one? I will do a search for the mini M and look for coupon codes. I'm normally pretty good about finding vape deals online, but I'll be honest, in the U.S. you can find them on the mainstream names (P4U, Sigelei, Smok etc.) but I've not seen that SX mini for less than $199.99 anywhere. I will look again tho.
Chief, thank you again for the advice. I figured you might have some fire behind the smoke I thought I smelled coming from the DNA 200.
I don't mind tinkering, like with the temp control- matching the temperature with the joules to get that perfect flavor and doing it for different coils and different juices. I don't mind that, but sometimes I do find it a little tedious. Looking at that Escribe software, that does seem like alot. I'm sure you've seen The Vapor Chronicles on youtube? He does a tutorial on Escribe. What you were saying- with having to adjust that to stop it from throwing out 200 watts right away and add settings for titanium, etc. I don't know if I'd be down for all that. I think it's very cool from customization standpoint. With the lipo battery, I'm still not sure. I get about 2 and 1/2 hours vaping a single 18650 on that Sigelei 75 in temp mode. So I would get just a little more than that with this 900 mAh lipo? Having true 200 watts is a selling point, but would I use them? I have one RDA and I don't use it that often. The highest wattage I'll take a tank is 120 (The Crown) and I don't do that on a regular basis either.
It almost seems like I may have bought into alot of hype with the DNA 200 and this 350J is the real deal. I know some of how to tinker with it based on my IPV4 experience (although I know it's not exactly the same) and I also like the soft, powerful etc. setting options.
Now your SX Mini, that's a single 18650 right? How much life do you get out of one? I will do a search for the mini M and look for coupon codes. I'm normally pretty good about finding vape deals online, but I'll be honest, in the U.S. you can find them on the mainstream names (P4U, Sigelei, Smok etc.) but I've not seen that SX mini for less than $199.99 anywhere. I will look again tho.
Chief, thank you again for the advice. I figured you might have some fire behind the smoke I thought I smelled coming from the DNA 200.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 291
Yes, the v2.23 brings it to 75w in power mode, 75j for titanium, but still 50j for nickel. I get a day out of an LG HG2 (3000mAh) but that's in Eco mode and 25J. You will probably have to switch during the day.
If you either want more power or longer battery life you need to look at a dual 18650 mod.
Have you ever looked at the Cloudmaker system? With that you could - in theory- swap out a 350j for a DNA200 or vice versa. Link: https://cloudmakertech.com/shop/
If you either want more power or longer battery life you need to look at a dual 18650 mod.
Have you ever looked at the Cloudmaker system? With that you could - in theory- swap out a 350j for a DNA200 or vice versa. Link: https://cloudmakertech.com/shop/
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 291
OK, more information coming in: the new Mini ML will not be a big change (apart from the supported types of wire) and the Yihi rep didn't recommend it as an upgrade for current owners of the Mini M. They will however come with a totally new double 18650 device that should target the DNA200 market coming Xmas.
The more I think about it - given the range of wattages that you vape with - the more I suspect you do need a double 18650 device.
The more I think about it - given the range of wattages that you vape with - the more I suspect you do need a double 18650 device.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,945
Haven't smoked for over a month. my kit cost me 200$ after trying to quit with a 35$ one. Expensive I know but I buy cheap 24ml menthol and cut it in half with vg that only cost 2bucs a bottle. Thinking of dropping down to 18ml cut in half 9 next time I cut down 12ml in a month. But I get a lot more vape smoke with my mod. Watts 30 v4 it goes from 20-150watt. They had this triple coil automizer that can handle 80-130 watt set. Thats to hardcore for me. with filters cost about 5$ a day instead of 10$ 12$ smoking and I don't stink.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 639
What set up are you using dsmaxis? What mod and atomizer? Chief, thank you for the info. You are the man! I'm in vape groups on Facebook and I post on the e-cigarette forum and I still prefer going to you when I want to know the honest truth (not vape shop hype). Yeah you are right. My 2 main mods are a Sigelei 150 (works fine, just doesn't do temp control) and this Sigelei 75 and the single battery is the exact problem I have with the 75. For me, I get about 2 and 1/2 hours out of a single 18650, but that's just sitting here filling out job applications. If I were regulated to some type of vape break schedule that might be different.
That's a big detractor from the SX Mini M for me. I'd have to imagine the battery life's not that much different from this Sigelei 75. Although, with these DNA 200's with Lipo batteries, If I were to run one of those at say 90 watts it'd probably go in a couple of hours too. I like the Boxer mods with the dual 18650's for that reason, but they are a little rich for my blood. This Hohm Wrecker mod doesn't sound bad (says supposedly you can get 151 watts and up to 700 degrees in temp mode), and if they made a dual battery sx I'd be into that but $250 for a mod I can't do. $200 is where I gotta set my limit lol.
That's a big detractor from the SX Mini M for me. I'd have to imagine the battery life's not that much different from this Sigelei 75. Although, with these DNA 200's with Lipo batteries, If I were to run one of those at say 90 watts it'd probably go in a couple of hours too. I like the Boxer mods with the dual 18650's for that reason, but they are a little rich for my blood. This Hohm Wrecker mod doesn't sound bad (says supposedly you can get 151 watts and up to 700 degrees in temp mode), and if they made a dual battery sx I'd be into that but $250 for a mod I can't do. $200 is where I gotta set my limit lol.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 291
I enjoyed this article recently, as it gives a slightly different perspective on the whole vaping scene: I went to a vape conference to mock it—then the vapers changed my mind
Well worth 5 minutes of your time.
I, who knew next to nothing about vaping other than what the mainstream has fed me, approached a conference based around the act with an expectation for amusement: lots of people arrogantly vaping, bragging about the large clouds they’ve blown (I myself have perpetuated this negative representation by mocking their cloud competitions), and the general ridiculousness brought on by the mere fact of vaping.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 607
Haven't been here in a while. My wife gave up vaping a couple of weeks ago. She quit smoking almost 2 years ago and started vaping. She slowly tapered down the nicotine (at her own pace) and has now given it up. She's going to keep it around in just in case so she doesn't go buy a pack of smokes.
I gave up cigs and have been vaping for 10 months now and my goal is to be ultimately free. Seem to be stuck on 6 mg of nic but not really that worried about it. Feel a thousand times better.
I think this is not all that uncommon and is the goal most who take up vaping. Wish the government and the media would back off. Smoking kills millions and anything that helps millions quit should be applauded.
I gave up cigs and have been vaping for 10 months now and my goal is to be ultimately free. Seem to be stuck on 6 mg of nic but not really that worried about it. Feel a thousand times better.
I think this is not all that uncommon and is the goal most who take up vaping. Wish the government and the media would back off. Smoking kills millions and anything that helps millions quit should be applauded.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 346
Hello fellow vapers. I finally upgraded to an Istick 30w so I could wrap 28ga coils for my protanks and am pretty satisfied even tho I had to open it up after 24hrs of use to re-solder the pos wire (just one of many problems with Eleafs--I don't reccomend them). 1.2 ohms @ 13 watts is plenty of cloud for me--and yes I'm a mouth-to-lung hitter. I may get a velocity clone soon for some serious clouds. Anyhoo, I did find a great juice company but they only have 10 flavors ( I mix 'em up so I'm satisfied). VapeMoar is their name and free shipping is fast here in the midwest--like 2-3 days. $3 for 15ml or $20 for 120ml and it's all high vg (their tobacco is 90/10 and is great mixed with their coffee and vanilla---heck, I mix it with everything). I'm a rather thrifty vaper and in the last 1.5 yrs have spent less than $1.25 a day on all equipment and juice---even if I get crazy and do an 8ml day. Just thought I'd share. Of course making one's own juice would be cheaper but I'm always quitting tomorrow, just like the smokes so I don't want gallons of juice around.
so I don't want gallons of juice around.
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