JamesfrmEngland

If I even had anything to relapse.

Was sober 8 months from all drink and drugs. Some underlying depression and not totally happy in sobriety but most of the time pretty happy. Half in and half out of AA because it doesn't fit with what I know about science.

Anyway, I thought I could "drink like a gentleman" and upon reading other non-AA stuff felt I could handle my drink now. I know statistically that moderation is usually as effective a treatment as abstinence so I thought I'd try it. I know about "real alcoholics" vs. "hard drinkers" and all that but that's not scientific so I have never gone for it. I started on 4 Guinesses friday two weeks ago. Experiment went well, didn't feel it much, felt mellow. Saturday day after had 4 Guinesses again, went okay once again. The following Friday repeated the same, 4 cans of Guiness. Saturday 4 Guinesses and ordered pizza. This is when it started to go wrong. I promised myself I would only drink two days a week but I have been under stress because my Master's dissertation first draft had to be in on Sunday. So therefore I thought get 4 more Guinness to reduce stress and I write better when drinking anyway (or maybe I don't, I don't know). Once I had drank them I thought I am not drunk enough maybe I should go to the shop for a quarter of vodka. In England shops close at 11pm, I didn't go but nearly did and waited until after 11pm I couldn't get beer anyway. I didn't drink yday and went to rehab centre, I am now drinking today (4 Guinesses) and will probably go to the shop after for quarter vodka. I am already planning university tomorrow, I do not want to go but have to attend or I will not get my certificates if I miss one day of attendance. Therefore, I will probably drink in the lectures because I will be sweating and anxiety high after tonight

doggonecarl

So much for science, huh?

ScottFromWI

I used to justify my drinking with "logic" too. Turns out the only way I was able to stay sober was to accept without question that I am an alcoholic, even though science and logic cannot explain what an alcoholic is.

Maybe you could give AA another shot?

JamesfrmEngland

I did go to a 12-step facilitation meeting in rehab today, but I talked about scientific studies and it didn't go down well lol. I will attend now and again but they are sooooo boring. I did do my 12 steps in the 8 months before I relapsed. I thought I had abstinence cracked to be honest because of how bad I was last time and how bad my health was before I went to hospital.

ScottFromWI

Not sure LOL would be the way I would view that outcome, do you?

I have pretty much found that there are parts of every recovery method that I do not agree with. I've been to AA meetings, I've read about AVRT, I've spoken with an alcohol/drug couselor, and I spend a lot of time here on SR. In every case, there are some ideas or some people that I do not agree with.

Having said that, I cannot use any of those things as an excuse to not follow the parts that DO work to keep me sober. I am not a regular AA member myself, but one of the most important concepts I take from AA is that there are things beyond my control. The number one thing is control over alcohol.

Zebra1275

I know statistically that moderation is usually as effective a treatment as abstinence

I can find statistics to back up pretty much any position I want to argue.

However, one thing is certain. If I have 1 beer, within a week I will be drunk.

StayStrong33

Good points here of not throwing everything out because you don't agree with some parts. I'm a firm believer of taking what I need an leaving the rest. I used to miss half an AA meeting arguing back with people's comments in my head. Let all that education in Psychology and mental health go to my head. Respecting science is not all bad. However, remember that we still don't have a cure for cancer or aids and not even a century ago you could buy morphine over the counter and as sleep aid for children LOL! Science has it's loopholes as well. Whatever the method, take what you need to stay sober and leave the rest 👍

Mel12

Hi James,

Thanks for posting about this since what you describe is a cautionary tale, just the kind of nightmare I might engineer for myself. I hope all starts moving in the direction you want.

saoutchik

Hi JfE

You managed to stop for eight months - that is an achievement so do what you did before to stop and this time you will know that you can't go back to drinking in moderation

chrcarlson

You are 1/2 again too smart. The problem is alcoholism isn't a math problem to be solves with logic. It is and always will be more emotional in nature. Note you drank for stress. I've read that really smart people have a lot of difficulty quitting. I'm sure I'm an exception to that

mav

Hopefully a man of your education and intellect will learn from this experience.

The real test of a scientist is the application of their knowledge.

Dee74

whoever sold you this really sold you a pup James.

Alcoholism is progressive - the longer you keep drinking the worse it's going to be, James.

I'm sure your attendance record requirement has allowances for illness etc.

If you've used those up, I think I'd rather sweat that be that guy who's drinking in class - if you think you can keep that quiet, you're fooling yourself James.

D

AnvilheadII

the only true SCIENCe regarding drinking is this:

Don't drink, you won't get drunk

Humans are not test tubes, they are organic beings and thus no two act or react in the exact same fashion no matter how controlled the experiment.

what was clearly proven tho is that what it took 8 months to build up in sobriety, was wiped out in two short weeks by attempting MODERATION, to the point where you feel you need to DRINK during lectures just to get by.......

try not to overthink it. alcohol in any amount is a problem. period.

Plure

I'm also a scientific thinker and like you have thought moderation is the key many times. Problem for me is that it is my problem with alcohol is progressive and almost imperceptibly incremental in terms of frequency and amount consumed. Before I know it, I'm drinking a half-bottle or more of red wine multiple times per week. I think our brains are sly...at a neurochemical level (forget about the higher level habits and feelings) they know that discomfort plus chemical equals comfort. That's a little equation that has worked every single time, until it started backfiring.

I've been meaning to read "Healing the Addicted Brain" by Harold Urschel as it focuses on the science of addition and why we really have to go cold turkey and stay that way.

Fly N Buy

Half measures availed us nothing...........

I always find it of interest that Albert Einstein and Bill W were both listed on Times 100 most influential people of the 20th century.Thankfully, I don't find recovery - spirituality and science mutually exclusive.

8 months is a long time for an alcoholic not to drink!

Thanks for the post - glad you're here.

2muchpain

James, I'm a lot like you. I love researching stuff and analyzing everything. I always want to know why things are the way they are. It's fun and I learn a lot, which is the point of the whole thing, but, IMO, alcoholism and getting sober is more of a feeling thing than a thinking thing. There's no way I can think myself to sobriety. Thinking too much about sobriety just gets in the way of actually feeling it. Took me a long time to figure that out. John

Ruby2

I agree with 2MP. The more I thought about quitting drinking, the more I painted myself into a corner. It was when I grasped the intangible feeling, then I was able to stop.

sva777

I too relapsed after 11 months sober. It was only one night but I had a few then a few more... Ect. Now I am at two months and not going to make that mistake again.

I know that for me if I have one I will inevitably have more than I should.

I find it easier to just not drink than to spend all my time thinking of how I can rationalize having another drink.

Put all that scientific brain power to good use and move on from thinking and obsessing over booze.

thomas11

James, not sure this will help you regarding your drinking, but whatever you do, attend those lectures. Others have offered up excellent advice and you've been sober before, so you know what to do. Don't let alcohol destroy the effort you have put into university.

Gottalife

AA suggests alcoholism is a spiritual problem and has a spiritual solution. Science may insist that it is a scientific problem but has yet to come up with a scientific solution. As someone suggested earlier, human beings are not scientific in their thought process, or rational or logical.

There is a great story in the big book where the writer controls his alcoholism, or attempts to, scientifically, by using varuous medications to counteract the effects of alcohol and other medications. I heard this guy speak live once, and his was a hilarious story. Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict.

James, I was at the other end of the scale to you. I claim to be one of the stupedest people ever to come to AA. stupified might be a better word. Far from passing exams, I couldn' even decide what socks to wear. I had lost the ability to think or reason.

I must have been gullible too, because I went to AA and just followed the suggestions with a certain naieve willingnes. To dumb to argue the finer points. I recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body.

Since that time, I have never seen anyone too stupid to recover.But I have seen some very clever people have a lot of difficulty. Maybe it is because they can't accept that their well established and proven intelligence isn't enough to beat the game. Perhaps they want to be the main power in their recovery, accepting only a minimum of outside help and direction, just the parts they like. It would, I guess be logical and rational to take what you need and leave the rest, but then again, silly old me was never much good at deciding what is good for me without first experiencing it.