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Is this PAWS?

Old 08-02-2013, 10:20 AM
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Is this PAWS?

Well this week marked my 16th week of sobriety. And in wondering if my current state is a result of PAWS. Lately I'm up and down and over all lost my zest! It's not at all like depression which I've had. It's more like a full aching void I feel. I feel helpless angry pist one minute and the next I'm ok! I'm not having super strong cravings either. Before you say...."don't drink...." I'm not going to. I'm not a sneak drinker it would never be fun.

In the reading I've done about PAWS it says it lasts about 2 years! That's a really long time! I can honestly say my life is more joyless sober then not. Don't get me wrong there are defintely more pros then cons. I'm just extremely frustrated with my current state I don't plan to return to drinking, but not satisfied with my sober self.

Any insite would be appreciated thanks
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:32 AM
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I think everyone is different in their reaction to PAWS Imperfectly. I've no doubt it is a real live syndrome though.

I'm at nearly seven months and have had an ongoing fight against what can only be described as severe lethargy! This is entirely new to me as even as a hopeless addict I lived to work.

I used to scoff at people when they said they felt "burnt out" but I can actually really relate to that now.

I've turned to a sort of acceptance of the feeling and try to accomplish set tasks through the day. Nothing too exerting so I don't get pissed off at not completing. Im definitely getting better at delegating now and losing some of my control-freakery
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:20 AM
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I feel exactly the same imperfectly, just could not put my finger on it. I'm reaching 10 weeks. It don't feel fair when I have made a positive change.

I think I will look into paws, but feeling like this for two years dose seem daunting.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:24 AM
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Yeah, I'm coming up on 2 months and it's like I need to reflect and get away or something. Feel burnt out myself. This is mentally exhausting. Debating myself all the time is getting old.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:50 PM
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PAWS doesn't necessarily have to last two years. That's just a time frame with two years at the most.


I stopped being bothered by it by one year. Yes, it sounds like PAWS: up one minute, down the next. It will get better the longer you're sober.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:29 PM
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My experience is like Least's on this one, one year for me too. But I am not sure if it took all that time for me to feel better or whether it was just that's how long it took me to realise that worrying wasn't going to make it better. Things got a lot better for me when I accepted that I was right where I needed to be x
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:23 PM
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<< over all lost my zest! >>

^this^

<< an ongoing fight against what can only be described as severe lethargy! >>

^this^

<< But I am not sure if it took all that time for me to feel better or whether it was just that's how long it took me to realise that worrying wasn't going to make it better. Things got a lot better for me when I accepted that I was right where I needed to be x >>

^especially THIS^

At 4-1/2 months I feel like I'm finally starting to see some glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel (and hoping it's not the locomotive's headlamp). I think a lot of it is how I look at it -- getting over the frustration and impatience with being unable to function as I think I ought to, and developing the acceptance that wherever I am is where I need to be.

My best guess is that I did quite a number on my brain's pleasure center or dopamine receptors or whatever, and a certain amount of anhedonia (lack of ability to feel ambition, enjoyment, or zest for life) is to be expected.

I also understand the futility of comparing timelines -- it takes however long it takes. I derive some hope in the fact that no one yet has come along to say that it NEVER got better for them.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:06 PM
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If anyone hasn't read this I encourage you to - particularly the part towards the bottom about all the stuff we can do to help mitigate the effects of PAWs

PAWS | Digital Dharma

D
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:10 PM
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Thanks for the link read it all! The last line was the kicker


Recovery is not about quitting alcohol and drugs. It is about learning to live a life that does not require mood-altering chemicals to be worth living.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:30 PM
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Thanks for that link Dee!!

I've been dealing with memory loss issues, which is quite embarrassing and I'm going to look more closely at the diet and exercise part of recovery!!

I also love that last sentence!
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:42 PM
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I've read in-depth Gorsk's work with PAWS.

I would not put any timeline on your sobriety, each individual is just that, an individual.

PAWS isn't a bad thing, more like what you might expect.

Tomorrow your view point could be completely different.

I don't have a great understanding about PAWS so I might be way off.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:07 PM
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Sounds like paws to me. Just coming off an episode myself. It's a good thing because it means are brains are repairing. If you are at the 120 day you should only have the 6 month the year and the 2 year episode left. That link Dee gave is awesome. Lot's of good advise on there.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by silentrun View Post
If you are at the 120 day you should only have the 6 month the year and the 2 year episode left.
I wonder how much of this is clinically tested? I mean, is it at exactly the six month, year, 2 year marks? My symptoms come and go now. Lots of them are clearing up and going away, but they are still there at times. I have just passed the 4 month mark.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SoberJennie View Post
I wonder how much of this is clinically tested? I mean, is it at exactly the six month, year, 2 year marks? My symptoms come and go now. Lots of them are clearing up and going away, but they are still there at times. I have just passed the 4 month mark.
I didn't know of it before it happened to me. It came here searching and ending up finding out about it. It was a perfect match for what I was experiencing right down to not being able to keep my car off the shoulder when driving. It came on slowly for a week peaked for a few days faded out for another week. I slipped so I don't even know where I am on that timeline. I think it all depends on how much you drank and how long. Also I think we women are more susceptible to the frontal lobe damage. Those timelines seem to be the consensus.
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:53 PM
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Yeah, I'm well acquainted with the PAWS symptoms. I've read one of Gorski's books. It helped tremendously. We also discussed it at IOP.

Just odd that it would occur at such precise times, you know?
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SoberJennie View Post
Just odd that it would occur at such precise times, you know?
so "odd" that it's beyond my capacity to put any stock in. where is this documented?! it makes no sense whatsoever. humans don't run on these kinds of timetables. 4 months 6 months 1 year 2 years?!

i've searched diligently online and haven't found a single reference to these, or any such, milestones. potential ranges of time (e.g. "repairing the damage to our nervous systems usually requires from six months to two years" and "PAWS symptoms reach a peak from three to six months after we get clean"), yes, but not firm marker points like this.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:20 PM
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well I've seen lots of evidence here that many members do seem to have trouble at around the same periods of time...do a thread search on PAWs - the timing is pretty uncanny

you can put stock in that....or not

Maybe it's the expectation and anticipation of a milestone, maybe it's lunar cycles? who knows.

D
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:27 PM
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I am sorry that you are not feeling well. I hope that this passes soon. It most definitely could be PAWS. Either way, I think that you are doing great.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:31 PM
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"odd" that it's beyond my capacity to put any stock in"

I'm almost 6 months sober, and I can say at the around the 30,60, 90 day marks not to the day but I did feel more cravings and out of sorts. Is there a scientific paid study to support paws no. But I'll take the experience of other alcoholics that have gotten sober over a scientific study any day.

Parsons and Fein both did scientific studies on the effects of alcohol on the brain. If that helps.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cittanatha View Post
so "odd" that it's beyond my capacity to put any stock in. where is this documented?! it makes no sense whatsoever. humans don't run on these kinds of timetables. 4 months 6 months 1 year 2 years?!

i've searched diligently online and haven't found a single reference to these, or any such, milestones. potential ranges of time (e.g. "repairing the damage to our nervous systems usually requires from six months to two years" and "PAWS symptoms reach a peak from three to six months after we get clean"), yes, but not firm marker points like this.
Im actually not that fussed what you think tbh. We're just relating what's happening to us at this moment in time.
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